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602Squadron

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    Shropshire, UK
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    Coaching stock, LNER and BR Eastern Region, BR Southern Region, electric traction, Lincolnshire railways.

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  1. Oh, this thread brings back so many memories... I was an ER Graduate Management Trainee between September 1977 and March 1979, although I had previously worked as a Parcels Porter and Booking Clerk fora year or so when I left school.. Within 2 days of turning up at The Grove for the first time, a fire broke out in the roof of the main building, smoke damaging a number of rooms, including mine, and I lost quite a lot of my clothes. For the next few courses some of us had to share rooms, and on one occasion we were billeted at the Civil Engineers School, which was an interesting experience to say the least. Huw Jenkins was the Principal at that time - I remember him in overalls up on the scaffolding getting involved in the repair works, which didn't actually take that long - everything was back to normal by the beginning of Summer '78. I later worked with Huw when I was a Project Development Manager at Stanier House in Birmingham and he was LMR Deputy GM - a really nice guy. The bar routinely stayed open until the wee small hours, although we sometimes walked down to the Clarendon Arms or ordered a taxi to go into Watford. I was fortunate to be with a really good bunch of people in the '77 intake, including some who rose very high in the industry, and I have so many happy memories of The Grove. I went back in 1990 on a Middle Management course, which included a day of field work - getting up at 05:30 to paddle canoes down the Grand Union Canal and collect various items hidden on the bank, abseiling down a tower to collect a distributor arm to reactivate a Bedford army lorry before driving over to the Aquadrome at Rickmansworth, where we built rafts to recover a missile container full of champagne from the bottom of the lake. Without doubt, the best course I ever went on. We had all our courses at The Grove except TOPS, which was held at Webb House, Crewe, a very old fashioned place run rather like a boarding school. I'd actually been there in 1972 when I was still at school and went on a BR Careers Course, and nothing had changed. High table, prayers before dinner and that bloody handbell being paraded around the corridors to wake you up in the morning. Unlike The Grove, the bar at Webb House closed on the dot of licensing hours. Faverdale was also mentioned earlier. I went there in 1982 on a NEBSS course, which for some reason my then boss thought would be a good idea. That was another rather dull place, with an old fashioned vibe - I can't remember what the bar was like, and my main memory is of a minibus being hired to go down to the Haughton Working Mens Club for a dance evening. They were rather proud of their fresh vegetables grown in the Kitchen Garden, though.
  2. I was a parcels porter at Welwyn Garden City Parcels Depot between September and December 1973. I only recall one van still in unlined maroon - an LMS BG (or rather, B, as the gangways had been removed). Unfortunately, the notebook I used to record the numbers of interesting vehicles has long since been lost, so I can't identify it. There were plenty of Southern PMVs, CCTs, Bs and BYs still in green at that time, although they were all so filthy that the only way you could distinguish them was by the interiors being painted in bauxite red rather than the white used on blue vehicles. In idle moments I sometimes used to try and wash a patch to try and see the underlying body colour, a hopeless task in most cases but I did find one PMV or CCT still in 1949 crimson with cream numbers outlined in black. Again, sorry, I can't help with the number. David Gould (Southern Railway Passenger Vans) does confirm that some vans were finished in crimson after the 1956 livery change and a few were never repainted green, but, again, who could tell under the usual thick layer of brown grime?
  3. Three memories: Back in the late 1950s, we lived on Baglan Road in Port Talbot. This was long before the M4 motorway was built, and there were still open fields between our back garden and the GW main line. Even though I could have been no more than 5 years old, I have vivid memories of standing at the garden fence watching the trains, particularly the sound, smoke and steam effects of the locos pulling away from the stop at Port Talbot towards Swansea. In 1960 we moved to Welwyn Garden City. The main town centre car park was located between the bus and railway stations (the Howard Shopping Centre has since been built over the site) and our parents sometimes used to leave my sister and I in the car to watch the trains while they went shopping. With the aid of my Observers Book of British Railway Locomotives (which I still have), I soon learned to recognise the various types of Pacifics. The A4s were distinctive, of course, but for some reason the modernised A3s with their wing smoke deflectors made a particular impression on me, as did the A1s. Other memories include 9Fs on long coal trains, the sight and sound of Deltics passing on full power, the crackly exhaust of Craven DMUs pulling away from the station and (bizarrely) the white oval toilet windows on Thompson stock, both on the main line expresses and the lavatory composites on suburban trains, which for some peculiar reason captured my imagination. In the mid and late 60s, my favourite spot for train watching was the cutting between the Twentieth Mile and Sandpit bridges, about threequarters of a mile south of WGC station. There was a path running along the eastern cutting wall which provided a good view of the passing trains, by this time of course all diesel powered but still a good variety of traction, including Deltics and Baby Deltics, Brush Type 2s and 4s, EE and BR Sulzer Type 4s, BTH Type 1s (Class 15) on the Blackbridge rubbish trains, and class 105, 116 and 125 DMUs. There were still five running lines there at that time, plus the disused remains of the Hertford single line on the up side. The cutting had been the site of the fatal collision between an Aberdeen - London express and a suburban train on 7 January 1957 - a friend from Welwyn Garden City Model Railway Club who lived in a street called By The Mount at the top of the cutting had somehow managed to get down to the accident and pinched the shovel off 60520 Owen Tudor, which had been hauling the express. I remember it sticking out of the coal heap in his back garden.
  4. I contacted Crecy, who replied that they have been experiencing "unprecedented delays" to their publication schedule, with books taking over two months to get from the printers due to supply chain issues, lorry driver shortages and the recent petrol shortage. Because of this they have stopped sending books to print for the rest of this year as there is no guarantee they will be available in time for Christmas, and in order that they can plan with these delays in mind for 2022. They have also commented that there is no particular issue with the 2nd edition of the book, and that they hope to be able to meet the revised schedules for 2022. This is fine, and I understand the difficulties that the current situation is causing, but it doesn't really address why the original publication date was postponed from April to September 2020, then again to September 2021 and yet again to April (originally May) 2022. Still, I guess it is what it is, and we'll just have to see whether the latest revised date can be met.
  5. I see Crecy has again postponed publication of the 2nd edition of Hugh Longworth's Mk 1 & 2 Coaching Stock, until the end of April 2022, so now 2 years after the original date. Is it ever going to appear?
  6. My suggestion was one or both of the GNR Royal Saloons 395 and 396, which were in service from 1908 until 1977, and, in later years at least, were frequently used singly in short formations, not just on the ECML but much more widely across the network. Perhaps their best known workings were on the Derby Week royal specials from Victoria to Tattenham Corner, which produced some weird and wonderful formations - e.g 31/5/1968: Met-Cam Pullman Kitchen 2nd, GNR Saloon, Met-Cam Pullman Kitchen 2nd, Mk1 BSK, hauled by Bulleid Co-Co electric 20001. They could, therefore, legitimately turn up on a wide range of layouts, and, given Rapido's track record with their teak finish on the NER Dynamometer Car, I felt they could make a really good job of these distinctive vehicles. I think that Royal Train vehicles have been rather neglected by the trade. They seem to generate a lot of interest among the general public, which could result in them appealing to a wider market than just modellers and enthusiasts, and a Royal coach might make a more affordable souvenir of the NRM than a loco.
  7. Thanks to everybody who replied - it is much appreciated. I've come to the conclusion that my 8F must have been renumbered by the previous owner, and isn't some little-known variation produced by Hornby. The numbers are definitely painted, not transfers - under a magnifying glass you can clearly see a slight roughness in the finish, and there is absolutely no trace of carrier film or varnish. Nor have they worn in the 53 years I've owned the engine. Whoever did it must have been very skilful, as both the running number and power classification digits are even sized, level and regularly spaced, which is why I thought they could have been factory applied. Perhaps they used a stencil. I don't think that it's just the last figure that has been changed from 9 to 0 due to the consistency in size and colour of all the digits, although it's a little coincidental that the running number varies by only one figure from the Hornby number. The smokebox door plate still interests me, however - it is a transfer, but a preformed 5-digit number, not individual numbers put together. Did any manufacturer offer such transfers in 1958-68 I wonder? I don't recall any and I can't see anything in the W&H or Hamblings catalogues I still have from that time. Anyway, the reason for asking was because I plan to sell the model and I wanted to make sure that I describe it accurately in the listing. Again, my thanks to you all for your help. Best wishes Bernard
  8. Attached is photo of a Hornby Dublo 8F which I bought back in 1968. It is fitted with an open frame 3-pole motor rather than a Ringfield unit, which suggests it's an earlier (1958-60) production. All the information I have found online indicates that the 2-rail versions of the 8F were numbered 48073 or 48109, but mine is numbered 48100. The cab side numbers appear to be spray painted - they are certainly not transfers. The smokebox number plate is a transfer, but a complete number rather than individually applied digits. . Although the previous owner fitted sprung buffers and a screw coupling, the numbering looks to me to be factory-applied. As I said, I've not been able to find any indication that Hornby Dublo produced a version numbered 48100. Does anybody have any further information?
  9. Deeply saddened to learn of Stuart's death. I first met him back in 1977 when we were both Eastern Region Management Trainees, and kept in touch with him over the next few years. From 2011 until I left Network Rail in 2014, he was one of my main contacts at DfT in developing the East West Rail project, and we met regularly to discuss scope, costs and timescales before EWR was adopted as a committed scheme for Control Period 5. We didn't always agree about these issues, but I never doubted Stuart's absolute commitment to doing what he believed was best for the railway. He was a good railwayman, and will be missed by many in the industry. Bernard Hulland
  10. If you can get hold of a copy, Michael Harris' "LNER Carriages" (page 18) has a drawing and photo of the articulated coupling arrangement, which consists of a steel casting riveted to each headstock, one of which has a cup into which a dome-shaped bracket on the other casting fits. The bogie pivot goes through the centre of both the cup and bracket, creating a single axis around which the bogie can rotate and the coach bodies can bend relative to each other. I normally use a similar single-pivot arrangement on 4mm artic stock, with separate brass plates attached to each coach underframe, overlapping above the bogie centre, and secured with a bolt passed through the bogie pivot onto a nut fixed to the uppermost plate. This works pretty well, although it does need fine adjustment to get the plates and bogie aligned and the underframes level - any dip relative to the outer bogies is very noticeable. I've also tried a single plate, fixed to one underframe and bolted to the other so that it can turn, with a normal bolster attached underneath onto which the bogie pivots. While this arrangement is easier to align, it's less able to cope with sharper curves.
  11. Yes, I joined the Junior Section in 1968. Brockswood was still the club layout; it featured in the October 1967 Model Railway Constructor, where there are couple of photos including club members of that time, none of whom I can name now. Maybe your dad is one of them? The Junior layout was a spectacular 4-track continuous run featuring practically every product ever made by Triang-Hornby and Minic Motorways, largely financed by Leonard Willesdon, the club President, whose loft in Brockswood Lane housed a huge 3-rail 0-gauge layout, again seemingly featuring examples of everything made by Basset-Lowke. I often wonder what happened to it. In 1970, the decision was made to scrap Brockswood and replace it with a multi-gauge circular test track. That left the club with no exhibition layout other than the Junior one, and I'm afraid also resulted in friction between various groups with different ideas about where the club should go next. Unfortunately, I got identified with the wrong faction, and eventually left the club in 1972. When did the club finish? The old clubhouse at 13 Peartee Farm is still there. All this is, of course, off topic for this thread, but if there are other ex-WGC members out there who'd like to share some memories we could start a new thread in the appropriate section. Bernard Hulland
  12. I agree with Michael. The O4/7 is beautiful - here's mine awaiting weathering. The boiler / cab unit fitted perfectly, and the whole conversion took, I guess, no more than about 8 hours work. I too hope the O4/8 isn't far away. During lockdown, I've also built an LNER Dia 244 Lavatory Composite using Mousa brass sides on an Ian Kirk kit, which I am really pleased with. You need to publicise more, Bill - these are quality products by anybody's standards. Bernard Hulland
  13. Yeah, it's a mirror image - I suspected it might be something to do with copyright. I don't subscribe to Britbox, but I imagine The Avengers will be available there.
  14. "The Avengers" episode "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Station", from Series 5 made in 1967, was re-run on ITV4 last week (sadly, the day before Diana Rigg died). The plot is as mad as usual in the later series - a conspiracy to plant a bomb on a train carrying the Prime Minister, masterminded by an evil ticket collector, who is somehow able to set up a command centre, complete with control panels covered in flashing lights, a plotting table and a big red button to set the bomb off, in the brake van without anybody noticing. But hey, guys, it's The Avengers - you have to apply a major suspension of disbelief to enjoy it properly! The episode opens with a lovely aerial panning shot of Wembley depot, complete with rail blue / grey and maroon stock, an AC electric loco and a passing Class 310 EMU on the main line, followed by a chase scene around the depot sidings. Later there are a couple of lineside passing shots of AC electrics hauling mixed Mk1 and Mk2 rakes, and a class 81, an 85 and a couple of 86s with similar coaching stock arriving at 'Norborough Junction" - actually Watford Junction, as seen on the platform lights at around 43 minutes. Much of the action takes place aboard the criminal mastermind's train (he seems to work the same turn every day), which is clearly a stage set. The corridor first interior has a distinctly GWR appearance, with 2-tone wood panelling in the corridor, individual compartment doors and framed pictures above the seat backs. The "Dining Car" seems to be a cascaded Pullman, with marquetry wall panels, 1+1 seating and old-fashioned brass luggage racks. Not what you would expect to find on what was then BR's most modern main line, but with a solidity and attention to detail that sets it apart from most film set coaching stock. One unnecessary error is that, despite all the exterior shots being filmed on the West Coast Main Line, the train apparently arrives and departs from Kings Cross rather than Euston, although the station exteriors and platforms are not seen. Still, it's all good fun and worth watching. Unfortunately, it's now gone from ITV Hub and isn't on You Tube, although there is a curious version on Daily Motion which for some reason is printed in reverse.
  15. A great idea and I'd love to see it, but a lot of work would be required to make it feasible. I think it's safe to say there would be no chance of obtaining permission for use of wood-framed stock such as the 4COR or 2BIL, and derogations would be needed for pre-1948 or Mark 1 all-steel stock, which does not meet current crashworthiness standards. Then there are all the add-ons now needed for operation on the national network - central door locking after 2023, toilet retention tanks, internal door handles and locking droplights, TPWS, event recorders, cab secure radio, high intensity headlights. Etc. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, as the Brighton Belle project is proving, but don't underestimate what is needed. Still, neither should we underestimate what the preservation movement is capable of.
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