Hando

Ah - I was wondering when you were going to start working on that CVLR concept! I must say I'm quite tempted by the idea of SR/BR(S) electrics on a backwater. I went to the Cuckmere Valley a few years back for a day during a Sussex family holiday and fell in love with the place as so many do (incidentally I came up with some Ian Rice style layout concepts after my visit too, but it's nice that someone else is building something I know I'd never get around to, and a more interesting interpretation of such a concept as well!). I look forward to seeing how the layout develops... Alex

I am also guilty of this During the sale, I purchased a 7mm model of Wapping in Improved Engine Green, despite the fact that I was planning a semi-prototypical microlayout based in East Cornwall! Perhaps I should change my plans to something more appropriate to the South Coast (I did have another layout idea in my head and was eyeing up some Stroudley carriages on eBay, so perhaps that is a potential route to solve this). Soon after copping the Terrier, I caved on purchasing a model I wanted for years, Minerva's Manning Wardle K Class in blue, which has led me to become incredibly indecisive as to what I want to do. I do eventually want to model a branch line terminus based on a proposed branch line in the Peak District, though I think on my current student salary, such endeavours may have to wait! An idea for you Terrier could be to do a rough repaint like the Colonel did with those he bought for the Edge Hill Light Railway, or even keep it in the same livery as an engine on hire. Terriers could be found to be spread all over the place if you know where to look, going as far north as the Highlands! https://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/20May/20may24.php

I've always pondered what the in-universe Titfield and Mallingford line would've looked like during the 19th century. Whether the railway company (who operated the Titfield Thunderbolt engine), were amalgamated into the Great Western, or remained an independent concern. One wonders what stock would've been used in either of those situations...

In regards to the ore-carrying electric tramway in Cornwall, you're correct, it was the Camborne and Redruth Tramways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camborne_and_Redruth_Tramways

Maybe I have been a bit too rigid in that view, though I didn't mean to come off as standoffish by any means... The great irony of my attempts to strictly define, distinguish and compartmentalise between light railways and tramways is that I find examples where there is a great deal of crossover between the two! Still, I can always broaden my definition to include some of these lines, i.e. the MER, KLR, B&ALR, etc.

Does make me wonder if I should include the Kinver Light Railway and Burton and Ashby Light Railways on my map then 🤔 Though, I've always felt that the two (as with the Manx Electric Railway) were really just tramways with their own separate trackbeds, as opposed to being bona-fide electric railways (which used separate locos along with carriage stock, as the PBSSR intended).

It depends what you want to find out really. If you're wanting to model the "actual" railway in the context of the surrounding landscape, I'd suggest getting the plans first, as they can tell you a lot about the line. Sometimes the route (and the civil engineering in particular) isn't quite what you'd expect. The prospectuses are worth having a look if you'd like to get an idea of what the directors were thinking when they came up with the proposal. The LROs, meanwhile, are good for underlining the operation of the railway. For example, the LRO for the proposed Hope and Castleton Light Railway in Derbyshire gave provisions for the use of overhead electric traction, with land allocated for the construction of a generating station. I doubt the line would've been electrified had it been built, but it is interesting that such an undertaking was considered.

Hi Andy, The plans are catalogued on the National Archives' "Discovery" website here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=newport+and+four+ashes+light+railway, and are shown to be at the Shropshire Archives as well: https://www.shropshirearchives.org.uk/collections/search?s=newport+and+four+ashes+light+railway&qa[keyword_reference_type]=0&qa[title]=&qa[person]=&qa[place]=&qa[subject]=&qa[format]=&qa[identifier]=&qa[date_from]=&qa[date_to]=&cbav=2&cbadvsearchquery= Copies can be ordered online, and I expect the process is similar to what I've used before for the Derbyshire Record Office, and should be fairly straightforward if you want to access them that way. Hope you find this useful.

A direction I was thinking of going in for my Hope and Castleton Light Railway Layout (one of the many layouts I have yet to build, having been deliberating over the track plan for far too long, plus now the added the demands of higher education), was of a small newly-established heritage line, like East Kent, Telford, Lincolnshire Wolds, Lavendar Line, East Somerset etc. For context, the Hope and Castelton Light Railway was a proposed branch line that was never built. Quite ironic really given the huge influx of tourism Castleton now receives, on top of the cement works that was built close to the intended trackbed roughly 20 years later, but I digress. In this scenario, I suppose that the South Yorkshire Railway Preservation Society and the Bahamas Locomotive Society would decide to set up shop in Castleton in the late nineties/early noughties, following the SYRPS' eviction from Meadowhall and the BLS' eviction from Dinting respectively. From the from the terminus at Castleton, a half-mile or so of track is laid to reach the overbridge at Pindale. The rest of the branch to Hope would take the place of the real-life Hope Cement Works Branch, with Class 30s running up and down to the exchange sidings on the Hope Valley Line as they do now. Perhaps a connection would be in place to allowing irregular special services to run along the whole length of the line to Hope, akin to the railtours that take place during Hope Cement Works' open days.

Oh goodness. This is the ideal thread for me, I've planned so many (too many?) light railways and associated layouts that I can't count them! Ironically, all of which have come to nought so far..! Just this week alone I've come up with a plan for an extension of the obscure Hassocks sand pit siding to reach Hurstpeirpoint over the hill (with the company's plans to extend east to Henfield and Pulborough and west to Plumpton of course). The track plan is fairly minimal given the hillside location of the station, so maybe there's a chance I'll be able to cram an O gauge layout onto my dorm shelf- who knows? For me the biggest difficulty in planning light railway layouts is trying to justify their existence in the real world. I find it best to ask myself these questions whenever I come up with a new idea: Why would the railway have been built? Is the area particularly mineral-rich or agriculturally fertile? Was there a housing development planned? Are there any towns or villages that were simply overlooked by the big companies, or sought a connection between two places? Are the locals simply a bit mad but rich enough to pay for it? Could the railway have been built? Shaftesbury didn't have a railway for a very fair reason- it's right at the top of a very big hill ! (and there's also a country estate to the east of it on the most gradual slope) Light railway gradients are often known to be pretty steep, but there does come a point when you're going to have to opt for a rack railway or funicular instead of normal adhesion... Was a railway planned there anyway? Sod's law determines that there's a good chance where you propose to build your railway, one would've been planned. It's always worth checking the National Archives' Discovery Page to find old light railway proposals- you might be surprised what you come across... How would the railway survive* on its own? *Survive may not be the correct term, light railways were rarely ever solvent, let alone profitable. But some way of making sure the company could "go on on its own" in someway is good when justifying an independent line. This could even be a conflict with the nearby main line company- it was fairly commonplace. What fate would it have had? Would the line have closed in months, years or decades? Would it still run goods-only services into the present? Would it get bought out during the grouping (and would it be shut in the '30s or by Castle or Beeching?)? Or would it even survive into the present day, and in what form? I've done a fair bit of research on light railways recently and have made a map of all the lines I can find and think of, including many proposals... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/d/edit?mid=1U_WMLPVg7csf_4H_Gr6tR7owACff0WI&usp=sharing My definition of what a light railway is is very broad. A light railway is any railway that is either cheaply built, maintained and operated, and has characteristic quirks which mean they do not conform to the rest of Britain's railway network. For me, this is simply down to the fact there are too many exceptions to the "rules"! Some lines granted an LRO, some built to the Tramways Act of 1870 or the 1868 Regulation of the Railways Act (Light Railways provision), and a good number built to none of the three!

There was a Class A as well, which I think was standard gauge. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a one-off...

@KeithMacdonald I also forgot to send you this: https://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/12_the_lyme_railway.pdf It seems the greatest impediment to Lyme Regis gaining a railway connection for so long was down to a lack of available finance and the constant intrusion of the bitter rivalry between the GWR and LSWR. The cost of construction that was required on even the more viable routes were far too expensive for the schemes to cover themselves, and thus an overreliance on support and investment from the mostly-disinterested main line companies was inevitable. It comes as no surprise really that the Lyme Regis branch line that was built was a Light Railway. I've also recently been planning a "what-if" layout based in the Lyme Regis area, though rather than being one of the planned heavy-rail lines, I have been developing an 1860s industrial tramway (inspired by the original standard gauge Swanage Tramway, the Aberford Railway, the Brill Tramway, the Burneside Tramway and the Wenfordbridge Branch), running along the seafront from the Cobb Tramway, and then through the narrow streets from Cobb Gate before wiggling up along the Lim Valley to Uplyme, where the 'main line' would terminate in a yard at Hacker's Mead (the pocket of land next to the Talbot Arms pub), from which some branches would serve the inland limestone quarries at Yawl, Combehays and Venlake. I'm also considering a "Middlemill Colliery" micro layout as well, based on the daft but equally very real exploration for coal there at the turn of the 19th century!

Pretty much as was proposed! Here are the original plans: https://www.freshford.com/railway_charmouth.htm

They were K Classes, which I suspect Rapido won't be producing first (the renders appear to be L Class engines)

I'm not too sure about that Keith, knowing how sensational plotlines are in vogue at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if such an episode happened, some poor Ambridge resident would end up getting hit Huskisson-style by the opening train! 🤣

The Loughborough references are alarmingly close to home for me (3 miles close to be specific! 😆). Jokes aside, I personally prefer a blend of reality and fiction for my modelling. Since starting this thread, I've found that fully imaginary locations can sometimes be a bit of a ballache for anyone trying to make sense of them, as the quality, breadth and depth of lore is entirely dependent on the skill of the writers, and in the case of places invented for television, film or radio, this can vary significantly as staff change. Today, I've been over to the Leicestershire and Rutland Records Office studying failed railway proposals in the county to find some inspiration. Some of them would make for some good layouts with a lot of potential in terms of operational interest, like the North Leicestershire Railway which in 1874 was planned to link the GN&LNWJR and the Midland's Old Dalby cutoff, with the Charnwood Forest Railway and Midland Railway's main line at Loughborough. Meanwhile, the proposed branch line from the GCR to Newtown Linford would, in particular, make for quite a nice Branch Line Terminus, so I am rather tempted to have a go at making that. Watch this space...

Apologies for the late reply. After having a busy start to the year, I am finally back! Nice to see people are interacting with this thread, so thanks to everyone who has replied. I'll bring you up to speed on what I've done since my last post... I'm afraid to say that so far there hasn't been much to report on in regards the search for the history of Borsetshire's railways; other than having bought and read the November 1997 edition of Railway Modeller, which is the issue that features the pre-grouping London and North Western Railway layout "Lakey Hill". It should come as no surprise that the layout in question is not based on the Archers Canon whatsoever. It was simply the case of a name being re-used in a different context. The modelling was to a very good standard, so it is interesting to consider what the fate of the layout was. I imagine that it has long since been scrapped. So, this means that the LNWR branch to Lakey Hill was a red herring. How disappointing. This brings me onto matters regarding the Google Group I used. It must be said that in isn't a reliable source, a lot of what was said on there is simply hearsay, such as the "GWR Paddington to Hereford Main Line" (which on reflection, I realise just how daft that sounds). However, it has been very helpful in plugging the gaps in the history of the Borchester and Hollerton Railway and the Ambridge Park Railway, though it hasn't provided me with much that is easily verifiable. Regardless of the tangent that the conjectural Lakey Hill line has created, I have now found a possible "lead" for investigation, namely Jock Gallagher's Twenty Five Years of "The Archers", a "who's who" of Archers characters, which also features the Ambridge Parish Map. This book was written in 1975, around the time Jack Woolley's steam railway was running, so perhaps this storyline would be mentioned... As for my suggestion that Borsetshire would be situated to the west of the Vale of Evesham, it was simply sheer speculation on my behalf. My understanding would be that the county would not simply exist on land that already does, but would 'shove' the existing counties outwards from it, resulting in the expansion of the landmass of Great Britain from what it currently is (n.b. it's probably best not to genuinely consider the actual geographical consequences of this situation! 😁). As for the road numbers, those on the modern map seem to be entirely arbitrary. Most of the numbered roads on the map are region 1 roads, which would place Borsetshire in the East of England, as opposed to the West Country, as it has always said to have been! There is also two region 3 roads, one region 4 road and one region 9 road! Clearly, whoever made the map didn't know about the MoT Classifications! At the end of the day, none of it matters, since it must be remembered that Borsetshire doesn't actually exist (but maybe that's a copout 😄) !

There's plenty of old light railways and minor railways in the Mid Wales / Marches area that are worth having a look at for inspiration: The Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales Railway (closed in 1880, but later reopened as the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Railway in 1911). The Tanat Valley Light Railway (operated by Cambrian Railways) The Bishop's Castle Railway The Golden Valley Railway (independent until 1899 before being bought by the GWR) The Van Railway (operated by Cambrian Railways after 1896) The Mawddwy Railway (independent until it closed in 1908 before being reopened by the Cambrian Railways in 1911) Each of these lines (except for the Golden Valley Railway and Bishops Castle Railway) had their niche in terms of the minerals they carried. The PSNWR/S&MR served the Granite quarries at Criggion, and the Limestone quarries at Nantmawr with two branch lines. The TVLR served the slate quarries at Llangynog. The Van Railway served the lead mines at Y Fan. The Mawddwy Railway served various slate quarries along its route, the most significant being the quarries to the west of Aberangell, which were served by the narrow gauge Hendre-ddu Tramway, which was a feeder line for the Mawddwy Railway. Some minor railways of interest are: The New Radnor Branch (there were some significant limestone and gritstone quarries at Dolyhir) The Minsterley Branch (the Snailbeach District Railways served the lead mines on the western side of Stiperstones and terminated at sidings at Pontesbury) The Kerry Branch (the narrow gauge Kerry Tramway terminated at the station and served the timber trade in the woodlands to the south of the station)

The map probably dates from around the turn of the 19th century, given that the Severn and Eye Railway is shown as being under Midland ownership, which was from 1894 onwards (although it makes no reference to the joint agreement with the GWR). The reason several lines aren't shown is due to the fact the Midland didn't have significant running powers over those routes, so they were consequently omitted as they were deemed irrelevant. Had the Golden Valley Railway successfully extended to Monmouth and Lydbrook Junction (https://booksrus.me.uk/gn/page%2031.htm), I imagine the Midland would've acquired running powers over the line, as it would've provided them with a more direct route from Bath or Bristol to Mid Wales.

Might also be worth having a look at 422 modelmaking: https://www.422modelmaking.co.uk/buildingkits They sell some nice resin kits for light railway station buildings, as well as scratch aids on eBay.

In the spirit of the "Imaginary Railways" topic of this forum, I thought it might be interesting to try to make sense of the railways of the fictional county of Borsetshire (best known as being the abode of the famous Archers)... I will readily admit that I am not a diehard fan of The Archers (although both my mother and grandmother are), but having picked up William Smethurst's excellent book "Ambridge: An English Village Through The Ages", I have gained a deeper interest in the series' 'history'. I had already seen various maps of Borsetshire and Ambridge Parish, which provided some insight into what lines once and currently exist in the fictional county, although they don't give much information about such railways' history. Having read Smethurst's book (which I strongly recommend for any modellers seeking to create a convincing setting for their fictional railway) I have been able to glean a few details about Borsetshire's railways... Hollerton Junction, and by the same token, Felpersham, are both situated on the Great Western Railway. Hollerton Junction opened in 1856, with other Archers literature (according to a very old Google Groups thread I found: https://groups.google.com/g/uk.media.radio.archers/c/UgTTySELEHI) stating that the station is situated on the Paddington to Hereford Main Line. This suggests that the railway was on the Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway, given Borsetshire's approximate location somewhere to the west of the Vale of Evesham(?). Hollerton Junction still appears to be open, though it has a much less regular service pattern now it is a mere through station. Smethurst's book states that a branch line from Hollerton Junction to Borchester was partially constructed in 1892, although the scheme was unsuccessful. This railway is probably the branch line that terminated at the south-west end of Ambridge village (as shown in the 1975 Ambridge Parish map below). A member of the old Google Group I found, Ted Richardson, stated that: The meagre information about the railway on the internet means I am unable to ascertain as to whether this is true, but it does sound plausible. As shown in the map above, the Lawson-Hopes were the main landowners in the Ambridge area at the time of the railway's construction. But, what I do know (as is shown in Smethurst's book,) is that the Hollerton to Borchester Railway must've been a somewhat independent concern, based on the fact the company owned a single locomotive by the name of "Borset" (shown below), a Manning Wardle K Class if I'm not mistaken [my guess is that this photo is from the Sydney Newton Collection, the actual engine in question being used by GCR contractors]. According to Smethurst's book, the railway closed in 1917, having been unable to make a profit- so a proper independent light railway* then! 😁 (*based on John Scott-Morgan's definition of course!) Another member of the Google Group, Charles Norrie, claimed that there was a second railway that came to Ambridge Parish, operated by the LNWR and later the LMS. The 1975 parish map (which is by far the most detailed survey) shows another railway (namely Jack Wooley's Ambridge Park Steam Railway), but no disused line going to Lakey Hill itself. Mr Norrie references Railway Modeller November 1997; an issue I have thusly ordered, so hopefully I'll get that in the post come the following Friday. The fact this supposed railway is in RM suggests to me that it probably isn't Archers canon, but we shall have to wait and see... According to Ted Richardson, Jack Wooley originally advocated for the reopening of the old branch line (presumably the old B&HR), with his scheme receiving some publicity as a headline in his Borchester Echo newspaper. Jack eventually built a steam railway through Ambridge Country Park in the 1970s, and operated it along with Tony (Archer?), who served as fireman on the railway's engine, "Empress of Ambridge". The line is shown on the 1975 parish map and runs from "Wooley Central" in the south, located at the country park's car park, to "Lammerfield Station" by the indoor golf range in the north. According to the members on the Ambridge Google Group thread, Wooley's Railway experienced what the ORR nowadays would probably describe as 'lacking in operational standards' (i.e. running into bufferstops, changing points during movements etc.). It seems the Ambridge Park Railway was eventually handed over to the Borchester Railway Society as Jack chose to stop operating the line. There are two big questions I pose regarding the APR, those being: What was the railway's gauge? Did it run over a pre-existing trackbed? Various members on the Ambridge Google Group thread suggest that the railway would've been 2ft gauge, probably employing ex-industrial locos like Quarry Hunslets. We'll probably never know for sure... As for the provenance of the railway, the 1975 Ambridge Parish map indicates that at least the visible section of the line to the south likely existed prior to the APR, as a disused section of line existed between "Wooley Central" and a junction with the BHR south of Grange Farm. Whether the section of line to the north of the map from "Lammerfield Station" past "Bellamy Halt" had previously existed before the APR is unclear. Another ambiguity is whether the Ambridge Park Railway still exists in The Archers universe, as no mention of it has been made for a very long time... The final railway given mention in Borsetshire, is the "Blackberry Line", as shown in the county map below. Like the Ambridge Park Railway, the Blackberry Line is a heritage railway. Audio recordings and marketing photos for the radio programme were taken on the real-life Severn Valley Railway. The line is a more modern creation, which likely accounts for the lack of any history I've been able to find surrounding it, as the programme's scriptwriters appear to put far less emphasis on the worldbuilding of Borsetshire now than their predecessors once did.

Hi everyone, I recently spotted this fine pair of engines in a sold lot on Hanson's online auction site: https://hansonslive.hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/193/lot/95371?url=%2Fm%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F193%3Fpage%3D6 https://hansonslive.hansonsauctioneers.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/193/lot/95372?url=%2Fm%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F193%3Fpage%3D6 I haven't been able to work out what prototypes these engines are based upon, as I am not familiar with the livery they have. However, my suspicion is that they are both models of an off-the-shelf design by a loco builder such as Beyer Peacock or Sharp Stewart that were sold to a main line railway company. If anyone has any clue, be sure to enlighten me... Thanks, Alex

There's also Robert Cunliffe's, as well: https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Garstang-Knott-End-Railway/dp/024432459X

In terms of freelance pre-grouping saddle tanks, you can't go wrong with the quintessential Manning Wardle K class (or its predecessor, the Old Class I):

I love Manning Wardles, so this is really up my alley! I think the idea of a 'starter kit' offered by the S scale society is a great way of getting new people into this oft-overlooked scale. I myself have toyed with the idea of having a dabble in it for quite a while, but never took the opportunity to make the leap. Perhaps this loco is what might give me the push to start modelling in S...