Mad Carew

I daresay these things will take time, but I think the decades' long focus on the last decade or so of steam is bound to run out of steam sooner or later and those manufacturers prepared to prepare for tapping other markets, like-pre-grouping, have a great opportunity. It is a shame that so much effort goes on scanning inaccurate preserved locomotives and reproducing the same anomalies only smaller! For me there is no point in an accurate model of an inaccurate reconstruction, but, hey, that's just me! It remains to be see if there turn out to be more models of the Bluebell than of the Lyme Regis branch!

Great picture of the ex-Abt. system loco in 1890 - I am tempted to interpret that lining as LNWR! A fascinating read. Thank you again. It seems it took the NWR several goes at finding suitable motive power for the Bolan Pas line. After the Abt, according to Hughes, they had a pair of Neilson 0-6-0s of 1888 with small wheels and backed onto a shared tender. Next, and more satisfactory, seem to have been 0-8-0ST, which also appear to have been Neilson products of 1888, and of which I have no picture, but which Hughes says were similar to the Ghat engines of the GIPR. These were followed in 1896 by Neilson 2-8-2Ts (TA Class), for which, again, I have no picture. Finally, according to Hughes in 1900, came the 'Anglo-American' TAA Class 2-8-2Ts, built by the Pittsburgh Locomotive Works, but using some British parts (picture below).

Fascinating stuff, many thanks

Perfect coach! First-Second composite? Interesting that the colour coding has gone. Second was generally green, and I think First was white. Third was generally dark red, so perhaps those Midland Red coaches were All Thirds? The colour illustration is a south Indian metre gauge coach, but I understand the colours were fairly standard throughout India, as a seating guide for the illiterate. Pale coloured coaches seem to be in evidence on the NWR earlier than 1904, too. Below are some pictures I've found. Shela Bagh station, showing the southern portal of the Khojak Tunnel, surely is a 'must-model' scene. Some coaches look pale sided, others, not so sure. I would guess this is 1890s. The closer view is said to be 1895. The close up is of a VIP special at Quetta, 1894. You posted the Attock Bridge shot, also apparently dated 1895 - are the train coaches of different colours or is it just dirt? In about 1904-5, A M Bell of the Great Indian Peninsular Railway introduced coaches constructed with non-conducting material inserted between the inner and outer layers of the coach sides and roofs. By these means he was able to dispense with the need for the overhanging wooden sun-shades or awnings. He also dispensed with the class colour coding and went with a rather british two-tone livery, darker lower panels and lined pale upper panels. Other railways followed suit and I include a picture of two-tone NWR coaches without awnings. Pictures in the 1910s start to show NWR trains without awnings. Inclidently, one is tempted to view the later NWR coaches as even more LNWR-like given their livery! Your 4-wheel coach is, perhaps, on the cusp. The class colours appear to have gone (perhaps they never held sway on the NWR?) but at the awnings are still in use.

Great progress and particularly like the idea of the gateway. Rather more in-period than your German Car, would be some Buffs, though they don't look that overlarge to me:

Simon, thank you for these excellent links and for the PM. All very greatly appreciated. It all starts to make sense, especially as I realised that I had seen one of these before!

Some great stuff to come back to, thanks for the contributions. I have made no progress, having been otherwise engaged for the last week. I particularly want to pick up on nomisd's comment about the triangle (which is presumably his preferred way of reversing his name!). I would love to incorporate such a prototypical feature, but being unfamiliar with the practice, I wonder where I might come across a plan showing how matters were arranged?

Well, Nomisd, I must thank you for saving me a lot of time and trouble. I knew that, starting from a base position of ignorance this would be a long climb to the heights of enlightenment, and you've certainly given me a leg up. I will eventually try to get the MG and NG volumes of Hughes, but, for now, safe to say that MG is out! If I want a NG feeder, I have to think about how to model 2'6" gauge in 3mm scale! It might have to be 6mm gauge track, as the nearest I could get!

The Te-Rain – Part 3b, Metre Gauge? I have put off consideration of an 1870s metre gauge train because I do not have Hugh Hughes’s metre gauge volume. But, some initial thoughts occur. Well, part of the problem is that the metre gauge lines of the NWF probably did not exist in the 1870s. Because I do not yet have a copy of Hugh Hughes’ survey of metre gauge locomotives 1850-1940, I have very limited knowledge of the types and dates in service. For instance, the Kohat – Hangu - Thal line pictured earlier, was, I guess built around the turn of the Century after the 1897-98 Pathan revolt. That axis was marked by a road and used by the Tirah field force, indeed, British troops had a very long approach march, as the Broad Gauge system had not reached Kohat at that time. I have a photograph of one of the line’s original metre gauge locos (below), but this hardly helps with a grand old lady like Victoria. I suggest, therefore, that any 1870s metre gauge locomotive and rolling stock of that era would have to rely upon the fiction of having been transferred from elsewhere in the sub-continent.

Edwardian - I am sorry to hear that you are unwell, best wishes for a full and speedy recovery. Please get back to the modelling, as I am very much enjoying your village taking shape! I have sent you a PM re Bhivandi Pura/Nindhar Benar. Reply when ready.

Allegheny1600,welcome to the Durbar (and thanks for the 'likes', which are always appreciated). Do feel free to get sucked in by the way. Thanks to everyone for their continued interest and support. Now my post about the Jaipur-Churu line locations left a niggle. I could not see why the filmmakers would want to change location, I mean film the Bhivandi Pura name board at one location and the station building at another. Re-watching the scene, the action seems to track seamlessly from one to another. My conclusion was that the Alarmy stock photo was mis-captioned as Ringas Junction (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) I looked up Ringas Junction. I know places change, but it is nothing like the location or locations used in the film. I once more failed to find any further pictures of Nindhar or Nindar Benar station showing the building, but I did look up the place on Google Maps and I am persuaded that this was the single location used for Bhivandi Pura. Look, if you will, at the shot of the soldiers approaching the name board. See the start of the passing loop in the background and what looks like the start of a siding to the right. Look at the shot looking back at the station as Victoria pulls away (sorry about all the corpses), and note the hills behind the station to the right. Look now if you will at the aerial shots. You can clearly see the layout of passing loop, trees one side, single platform on the other, with a building with a flat roof matching the layout of the one in the film. You can also see the hills behind the station. Back on the platform, you can even see the white object marking the wall bearing the station name. Now look at the faint black lines above the line and to the left of the station. Are those not the traces of the sidings, the connection to which we see in the film?

Dzine, I too would be interested to learn more of the Indian locomotives in the film. Edwardian - you go for it! I'd love to see you model Ringas Junction station building. Scouser - Welcome aboard! I find this new and exciting territory Thinking on the Rajasthan connection, I had always been pretty sceptical about the railway leaving Haserabad via ancient Indian walls, particularly using an old gateway; a modern British gateway in old Indian fortification is perhaps not such a stretch. The filmmakers could take some justification from the following scene near Udaipur:

The Te-Rain – Part 3a, Metre Gauge? I again include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research. These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen and, so, the quality is awful! As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, in fact, Victoria starts in Spain, first seen on shed at Haserabad, which was in fact the RENFE shed at Guadix, Spain. No sooner than she gets up steam, however, and she is at an unidentified location in India. Haserbad station appears to be an Indian location. It features what looks to be a metre gauge railway. We first see the line in daylight as the last train departs with its ill-fated passengers and crew. The night shot of the train being man-handled is logically the Spanish train, as we are here, I think, still at Guadix. The night shots (not included below) of Victoria leaving Haserabad, will be of the Indian train. I assume that in the next shot we see the Indian metre gauge Victoria trundling into daylight, as she catches up with the refugee train at ‘Bhivandi Pura’,. There are differences in both the locomotive and the timber work between the 2 shots. I am pretty sure the daylight shot is in India; look at the hills in the background of first 2 of the 3 Bhivandi Pura shots, the first showing the train and the second the station name board; the hills appear to match. The station itself is certainly Indian, and Paul has identified it as on the line from Jaipur to Churu. I assume this is metre gauge. I am a poor judge of gauges, but the scenes look as if they could feature metre gauge track. I found a list of stations on the line, on a website that suggests this line remains metre gauge (http://www.prokerala.com/travel/indian-railway/trains/jaipur-churu-meter-gauge-passenger-special-2715.html): Jaipur; Dahar Ka Balaji; Nindhar Benar; Bhaton Ki Gali; Chomun Samod; Govindgarh Malk; Ringas Junction; Baori Thikria; Palsana; Goriya; Sikar Junction, a distance of some 123 miles. The station ‘running in board’ at ‘Bhivandi Pura’ looks a lot like that at Nindhar Benar (see picture below), and I suspect that it is (look at those same background hills!). The station building resembles that at Ringas Junction (see http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) and I would say that it is an exact match. The station building at Sikar Junction is in the same style, but looks to be larger. It should be said that Jaipur is a fairish way from the North West Frontier Province, which is now in Pakistan. As the crow flies it is some 330 miles from, say, Lahore, 440 miles from the Pakistan border, and even more from the debatable land of the tribal agencies beyond the Indus river. Indeed, I think Peshawar, the largest forward garrison town and the most likely model for ‘Haserabad’ is 745 miles from Jaipur. It follows that the metre gauge Jaipur – Churu line is the film location, rather than the historical basis for the railway from ‘Haserabad’. The Jaipur – Churu line might have been a northward extension of the metre gauge system built by the Rajputana State Railway starting in 1874 and running between Delhi and Jaipur. The line was converted to broad gauge in the 1990s while the Churu line appears to have remained metre gauge. According to good old Wiki, the Rajputana State Railway was the first railway company in India to build and operate metre gauge lines. Rajputana State Railway was merged into Rajputana-Malwa State Railway in 1882. In 1900, Rajputana Malwa State Railway was merged with the Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway. I won’t dwell on the Bhivandi Pura massacre scene, it is, as Paul notes, somewhat disturbing. A film made in 1959, it surely reflected the harsh reality of Partition, when trains ran into stations full of slaughtered passengers. From our point of view, the rolling stock is too modern to be of assistance in any event and, so, does not assist in the recreation of the NWF at the turn of the century. I have already made the point that I doubt a metre gauge line would run 300 miles from Haserabad, a garrison town like Peshawar, to Kalapur, a town at a more peaceable distance from the Frontier. The Rajputana system may have been extensive, but I do not think there were such extensive metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province. But, if we stick with Indian metre gauge, what might a real life Victoria and her old broken down coach have looked like?

Well, respect for your Great Uncle Billy, from what I'm reading warfare on the NWF in any era was hard and dangerous and it was not just those with two thousand pound educations that succumbed to the 10-rupee jezail; a number of British regular battalions saw hard service in the decade before WW1, which rather belies the Blackadder notion of an army that had only faced sharpened fruit. That's not to mention the Boers, of course ... Now, I must not neglect Victoria ....

Edwardian, that is both interesting and extremely helpful to anyone contemplating the OO/HO option, much appreciated. The Te-Rain – Part 2, “Now Victoria’s a wonderful old engine…” Or, ‘How do you solve a problem like Victoria?’ I include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research. These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen, which is showing a, differently titled, version of NWF which is free to view on You Tube. I assume, therefore, that I am not transgressing. Although regarded as nowadays “no good except for shunting”, her driver, Gupta, has boundless confidence in Victoria: “What is 300 miles to this engine?” “You know what she used to do in the Karachi run? Two times in one week! One week, two times!” “Yes”, replies Scott, “but how many years ago?” Victoria is named the Empress of India. To me this suggests that the locomotive was brought into service in or shortly after 1876, when Queen Victoria assumed that title. Although it is always possible that an older engine was renamed, I think it likely the proud Victorians would have bestowed the name upon their newest and flashiest locomotive. So, this relic is, by 1905, barely 30 years old. Whereas an express passenger type of that age might have been downgraded in that time, 30 years is no great age for a utilitarian 0-6-0T; look at the Brighton Terriers, stalwarts from the 1870s. Here we come to one of the film’s essential railway improbabilities, that this humble 0-6-0T is a neglected relic with a once glorious past. If ‘Haserabad’ is, indeed, a frontier garrison town like Peshawar, the “Karachi run” would be quite a feat. The Khyber Mail runs between these two places, a route by rail of 1,069 miles. I don’t see a diminutive 0-6-0T of any age or gauge on such a service. A much more likely candidate for a prototypical ‘Victoria’, I suggest, would be one of the Broad Gauge 0-4-2 tender engines of the 1860s-1870s that the NWR inherited from the Scinde, Punjab & Delhi Railway Company. But, we will return to the Broad Gauge options, after first considering Metre Gauge.