SouthernEMU

Hello Richard (Johnson). In a November 2015 issue of BRM, Ben Jones interviewed you regarding DCC Concepts. In one of the final paragraphs you noted that: "We're also looking at producing a DC (analogue) controller. I can't stress highly enough how poor many existing controllers are, and how unsafe the older ones are now". Has your company been able to progress with this project, as in North America, there doesn't seem to be as many controller options available as in the U.K., and some of them look very toy like? Canada operates on 110 - 120 volts at 60 hz, but there are many plug-in A.C. to D.C. power supplies available here for this system as long as the controller is able to receive them. I note that some U.K. controllers are pre-wired for the U.K. with 240 volt plugs at 50 hz. Any suggestions please, as you mentioned in the article that "Perhaps the biggest mistake we made at the outset was calling the business DCC Concepts. I'm passionate that everything we do works just as well with DC as it does with DCC." Reading the various U.K. model railway magazines - as well as those from the U.S., analogue still has a place in the model railway/railroad universe. Cheers, S.E.

Hi All. I have just completed the sale of all of my 'O' gauge items. Checking my spares box, I found a set of 4 brass gears that are designed for the early Class 33 or possibly the 26? I cannot list on the U.K. on-line trading site, and wonder if anyone is interested in purchasing them from me? I had originally successfully bid on a used Heljan 'O' Class 33 in fairly good condition. The owner advised that it needed a new gear. Unfortunately the sale fell through, and I am left with the Jim Snowdon designed gear set that I purchased (the last set available at the time). The set of 4 gears have not been used., and I believe that they are from Ultrascale. Please contact if interested or if you know of someone who may be needing a set. WF Canada.

Hi. Apologies - a few years too late, (just checked this great forum after listing), but I just listed some Street Level '00' /1:76 scale card kits of Chessington Line station/shelters, Odeon style S.R. stations, 'Glasshouse' signal box, and S.R wooden shelter waiting rooms. I just listed all 7 card kits on ebay.ca if anyone is interested. If Ardglen is still looking just make an offer (will ship to Australia from Canada). These are coloured card kits, but with a bit of 'relief' perhaps with plastic window frames and doors added, they can be made into good models of S.R. prototypes.

Hello Peter: Just a P.S. I should have specified which figures I meant. My grand-daughter would really appreciate the seated gent with the puppy inside his shirt. Also, the 'laid back' driver of the Jeep as shown in the Model Rail article. She has lots of the Britains figures which can be made a tad more life-like, and I realize that Tamiya in 1:35 are available. One of the U.K. model farm shops does sell mechanic figures in 1:32. Cheers, W.F.

Hello Peter. Thanks a bunch for this great 9 page forum entry. I was going to model British 'O' gauge, but reconsidered this option when I saw your article in Model Rail, 223, July 2016, and I was hooked. Years ago, I purchased Britains models for my then young daughter's model farm and horse riding display. A nearby shop would import the very cheap Britains' models and I would buy them for her. I boxed them all up when she no longer needed them, and stored them in a safe place. I recently unearthed them, and began researching other items on narrow gauge using 1:32 scale models and figures. It is the right size for a ham fisted and aging modeller like myself. What mechanism did you use under the (Canadian) ex-army Quad please? I have searched for the On30 Brill trolley by Bachmann, but prices now are extremely high for a used one, and Bachmann show the full driven assembly as out of stock. Also, where did you source the non-Britains model figures from please? Preiser still lists some 1:32 male and female farm workers, but presently out of production. Anyway, great job, and again thanks for highlighting your layout. WF

Clarification. The information on Mike King from 2012 came from the SRG site not SEMG, my apologies. The information on the SEMG site is dated November 2015. Cheers. EW

Hello. I tried the site recommended, but the email address provided is not in service (it mentions that the site was last updated in 2012), and I also found a different address listed for Mr. King in Woking, Surrey (on the SECR website no date provided for the information). Is the East Preston, West Sussex address correct or does he now live in Woking, Surrey? Thanks all. EW

Nearholmer as you note there are so many variables which I have discovered. Using information from the site that you recommended, D.2179 - which is in the photo I mentioned at the outset, although I didn't know it at the time - appears to be one of the best choices for the early 1960s on the Southern Region (D.2180 would also be applicable). Like D.2180, D.2179 apparently started its working life at Hither Green and remained there for 1 year before moving to Feltham as you noted. In the photo it shows D.2179 with wasp stripes and the photo is dated July 1963. As Heljan produce a Class 03 with or without the wasp stripes in green, I'm guessing that either could apply on a particular date. A minor detail, but the photo does appear to show a black grille not yellow as on the Heljan option. So, thank you for your help and I truly appreciate all the advice that this forum and others provide. May I just ask why does the site you mentioned cause controversy? On following The Bigbee Line's advice, and doing a more in-depth search, coincidentally I found a few original Mainline '00' Class 3 models for sale on the well known trading site all numbered D.2179. I obviously don't know how manufacturers choose unit numbers for their models, but I guess there must be some in-depth research carried out to ensure good sales of the particular numbered unit? Here's hoping that Heljan or perhaps Dapol produce a Class 04, but I'll do better research next time so that hopefully I don't have to bother you all again! Cheers EW

Hi All, and thank you for the replies. Nearholmer - many thanks to you. I searched and searched for a list, but I assume my search wording wasn't sufficient enough as the list you directed me to never showed up. It is very helpful.. As per 'The Bigbee Line' suggestion, the many 03 photos posted on line really tend to show the preserved units without detailing exactly where they worked. I will check again in case I missed any other sites. Cheers all. EW

Hi All. Just purchased an 'O' scale green B.R. Class 03 from Hattons for a very good sale price. I have attempted a detailed search on the web for the allocation of this class, or where a numbered unit would have worked, particularly on the Southern Region, but cannot find much detail. J. Vaughan's book 'Diesels on the Southern' shows one of the early B.R. green units D2179 on a short goods train (3 ore wagons, 2 vans, 1 5-plank and a brake van) passing Wimbledon C signalbox with a goods from Raynes Park to Nine Elms. (would work as far as Wimbledon Yard). Another shows an 03 D2254 at Southampton. Is Southampton or Bournemouth (and Weymouth Key) the location where most of the 03s worked or could they be seen all over the B.R.(S)? Was the flower pot exhaust more common than the conical exhaust on these units ? Lastly, Is there a significance regarding D.2011? Bachmann chose this particular unit in '00', and Heljan chose it for 'O'. I cannot find where this unit mainly worked. Any information much appreciated. Cheers. EW.

Hello Hal: Please keep the stories coming about your experience with the full size railways. I know not model railway related, but great to keep in touch with others during these unsettled times. I lived near Bexleyheath until moving to Canada, but moved back to the U.K. temporarily in the early 70s. I volunteered in Bexleyheath along with a motorman who worked out of Slade Green Shed. He invited me one day to ride in the cab with him on three trips to and from the city. First one was in a blue S.R. built EMU return to London, the second was on a mail/parcel/newspaper delivery (no passengers) via Hither Green in a very clean exterior 4 car 'Sheba' in green with full yellow ends. Then back to the city to take a 10 car unit down to Chatham. Back up to London, where we parted company, and he finished his shift after maybe 8 or so hours, with breaks. He was quite a character, full of stories, and great fun. Very careful at his job, and I took great pains not to distract him. For my work travelling from Bexleyheath to the City and back, a few times from Blackfriars to Bxheath., I fell asleep on the journey home, and ended up either at Barnhurst, or Dartford. Had to board a London bound train to get home. Great hearing from you. SEMU.

Hi Hal. Thank you for the confirmation. I also found an article by Stephen Chapman on his site "Steve's Page on British Rail Diesels - 'The Crompton' class 33" (rail.felgall.com) where he confirms that "In mid 1962 the first livery change was made with the introduction of a small yellow warning panel below the window at either end of the locomotive. D6530 was the first locomotive to be so treated and had rounded corners at the top of the panel while subsequent locomotives had square corners (and a slightly larger yellow panel - that on D6530 didn't go the full width). He goes on to advise of further livery changes and dropping the 'D' after 1968. "Locomotive D6530 was the first Crompton to be involved in an accident involving serious damage when it ran down an embankment at Gravesend West which resulted in the locomotive bearing a crease in one side for many years afterwards". Not sure than anyone is willing to model this on a new Class 33? The Derby Sulzer site did have a question mark after Spring of 1966 regarding the addition of the yellow panel on D6530, but he seems to be out by 4 years. Mr. Chapman did not allude to the roof alterations in his article. I have contacted a very helpful gent at Rail Exclusive who attempted to produce a pair of Class 33s in original form in '00' many years ago, but was somehow in dispute with Heljan who decided to produce their own version. He has all the works drawings apparently and I'm hoping he can shed some light on the changes. On his advice I can then decide if it's worth attempting the conversion that you did so well (me doing it - not so sure?). I also found a photo of a Class 33 in blue with the arrows of indecision plus full yellow ends and cab taken from the Purley Way bridge looking down on the locomotive (not identified by number), dated May 1969. The locomotive has the modified exhaust towards the middle off the unit, but the air horn box is still covered on top of the air horns. (South London Suburban Lines past and present by Michael H.C. Baker). Cheers.

P.S. I don't mean to make a meal of this topic, but I like a good mystery, and the Class 33 has proved to be a bit of one. I'm partly answering my own query here, my apologies - and I didn't plan this, but I should have investigated my own resources further. I checked my copy of 'Diesels on the Southern' by J.A.M. Vaughan and photos of the Class 33s up to 1966 (September one of them) all show a solid green front end. A photo of D6505 hauling empty oil tankers at Micheldever dated July 1967 also shows this unit with no yellow panel. Many years ago, a fellow Southern Region modeller in my city gave me some boxes of old model railway magazines. I cut out relevant articles from them, and stored them in file folders. My model railway room (under construction) is in a bit of turmoil, but I unearthed them from under the dust covers. I have just found a Model Railway Constructor article by Peter Kazmierczak from July 1984 regarding the Class 33. Mr. K. details original and later detail differences and notes: "There have been a number of changes in the roof details of the Class 33s. The original and revised layouts are shown in one of the accompanying diagrams. The main difference is the relocation of the engine exhaust outlet closer to the centre of the locomotive. This alteration was commenced in the mid-1960s and all had been so treated by the early 1970s". He also states: "Yellow warning panels were not applied until the mid-1960s rather later than on most other diesel classes". A photo of a class 33 in Mr. Vaughan's book on page 39 dated July 1966, shows a green 33 (no yellow panel and number not identified) at Southampton with a train of oil tanker empties, and the airhorn box cover has been removed to reveal the airhorns. I am aware that at least one of the 6 - 1962 introduced Class 73s - when first brought into traffic, wore a small yellow warning panel, but it seems that the 5 others may have not sported this from the outset. (Can anyone confirm?). In Model Rail - January 2008, George Dent completed a conversion of a Class 33 in '00' very similar to yours, by backdating a Heljan 33/1 to an original 1960-62 built 33/0. This was before the re-release of the 'correct' body shape 33/0 in '00' by Heljan in 2014. Mr. Dent advised that D6580 was the only 33/1 to wear B.R. green. Cheers, SEMU

Hi Hal Nail. D6502 rang a bell, and according to the site derbysulzers.com, D6502 was seriously damaged in a collision on March 5th, 1964 at Itchingfield Junction working the 01:50 Brighton to Three Bridges freight. Sadly the crew of 6502 were killed in the collision with a freight pulled by D6565. D6502 was withdrawn May 17th, and broken up in July, the first to receive this fate. Could the date of your photo of D6502 possibly be much earlier? I will have to check with the publisher of the derby sulzers site, as you note that you have a photo of D6530 with a small yellow panel dated 1962. The gent at derby sulzers quoted 1966 as the earliest , but on checking a photo on his site, he shows a Class 24 with a 33 alongside dated 1965, and the Class 33 has a full width yellow panel below the cab. Quite mysterious! Thanks again.

Many thanks 47606odin, and Hal Nail for the re-posting of your article. I had attempted a search on the forum for anything Class 33, but I missed your article. From a very helpful website regarding the Class 33, they didn't begin receiving small yellow panels until the Spring of 1966 with D6530 being the first, and the rest following in July/August of that same year. I have not been able to find out when the alteration to the silencer, air horn covers removed, clips added etc. began and was completed on all the units. A correspondent advised that the silencer was altered due to fires in the exhaust system, but was still researching the date. The Heljan 33 is still a fine looking model in its modified form, and will be enjoyed on my layout as is. Cheers, SEMU.

Thank you to Heljan for re-releasing the Class 33 with improvements and various additional colour schemes. I fully realize that it was never mentioned by Heljan that an original build Class 33 from 1960 to 1962 would be one of the options. I do understand that unlike the '00' versions - where the original and modified roof versions are available, cost to produce such a model in 'O' would not be financially viable due to the smaller market. Does anyone know therefore if a conversion kit is available similar to those in'00', to convert the roof to original silencer? Other mods. would be required and could be incorporated with plasticard or similar. I remember sourcing the small exhaust vent from a company in the U.K. for a '00' Class 33 that came with a number of white metal parts for a Hornby (ex Lima) 33. Is there anything similar for 'O'? I also realize that the clip moldings would have to be carefully trimmed off for an original build. Thanks in advance for any advice. SEMU

Hi Colin. I am enjoying reading about your layout in the October 2019 Railway Modeller (our magazine seller gets them rather late here in Canada, but well worth the wait). I looked forward to reading your article about your " 'O' gauge Parkstone" layout. It noted on the front cover of RM: "Parkstone A Dorset goods yard and industrial branch in 0". I was not disappointed however, as along with your excellent 4 m.m. layout there was an 'O' gauge layout featured along with other 'O' gauge information. Looking at your Class 33, 73, and possibly the other models, it could just as easily be modelled in 'O' as the Class 33 is/will be available again in that scale, although the Class 73 is only available in kit form. Thank you for an enjoyable article.

Thank you Mike - I struck Gould. Found his book (new copy) on Maunsell coaches at a U.K. booksellers and it's on its way. The book on Bulleid coaches (1994) is out of print, and not available. Would a used 1980 copy be as up-to-date?

Many thanks Kubes as this will save me both time and money if the kits are not correct for the location and date that I have chosen. On double checking the later SEMG site list rather than mine from 2008 (which is faded and hard to read), it would seem that with the B.R.(S) electrification scheme (1959 onwards?), many of the Bulleid and Maunsell coaches were moved to the Central and Western Section (I found much of this info. on the 4 m.m. models and kits pages of SEMG). So, back to the drawing board! Cheers.

Thanks again for all the replies. I re-checked the SEMG site, and it shows a photo on the Maunsell page of unit 457 at Reigate, looking towards Redhill, but on the listing of coach sets, it notes that 457 - consisting of coach 3701 and 5612 (formed June 1963, withdrawn May 1964), was used on the Reading - Tonbridge (not TWW as I had noted) - Brighton. Could REA(ding) be a typo on the listing? Similarly unit 459 (photographed at Eridge) consisting of 3713 and 5628 - which remained in service until 1965 - is noted as running on the same route according to the list. Note: Redhill, or its abbreviation code, is not listed on the site. I also found units 955 and 958 consisting of BTK-CK-BTK operating on the London - Folkstone - Ramsgate service until 1963. It does not indicate the coach type(s) in all cases. I will look for the Oakwood Press book(s). Just curious, but was Reading to Tonbridge to Brighton a regular route for B.R.(S). in the 60s, or as Nearholmer notes, not likely?

Hi. I have a very helpful and comprehensive list printed off from the SEMG web site (circa 2008) of S.R/B.R.(S) coach sets. I am interested in what would still be running in 1963 up to possibly 1964, on the S.E. Section of B.R.(S) using suitable/available Maunsell kits in 'O' gauge? I found a U.K. site that is still selling the Kirk kits of Maunsell stock, and Slaters still shows one model of a Maunsell kit in 'O'. I am assuming that the 1936 built Maunsells with high windows (and maybe low window stock?) were still running up to possibly 1965, but mostly on the Reading to Tonbridge Wells to Brighton lines? Similarly, what Bulleid stock was running on the S.E. Section in either 2, 3, or even 4 car formation in 1963/4, and would any of the r.t.r. Bulleid coaches manufactured by J & M Hughes in 'O' be prototypical? Thanks again for all the very informative help on this forum for newbies such as myself. Cheers, EW

Hello all. Thank you very much for the advice on the various brands of track and ways to improve it - as and if necessary. I also like the look of the Peco code 143 flat bottom track to be used for a mainline run, and merely wonder if the sleeper spacing is to American 'O' gauge specifications? I remember that Mainly Trains used to sell a pack of various manufacturers' track samples (I'm pretty sure for '00' only), but as Peco and C & L seem to manufacture shorter lengths than 1 metre (but only bullhead I believe), perhaps this will help me decide? Either way, having 2 left thumbs, but unfortunately not the patience of Job, RTR is probably the best way for me to go. I have room in my heated basement here in Canada for a medium size layout, and with the door closed, my better half doesn't hear the cursing that sometimes goes on! Thanks again, Ed.

I am new to 'O' gauge, and have been reading up on various track options in a couple of publications. John Emerson provides information on Peco 'O' gauge track in his very helpful book "Modelling Railways in 'O' Gauge" in the section titled 'Fine Scale: Making the most of RTR'. He states: "Whilst it is probably true to say that the majority of 'O' gauge modellers are happy to use 'Streamline', it does have its detractors. Sleeper spacing and width is a compromise to suit both UK and overseas markets and the points do not entirely conform to how the prototype is constructed". May I inquire with members on this site how much of a compromise is the Peco track work? Mr. Emerson continues by advising that he has had very satisfactory results on his 'Gifford Street' layout with Peco 'O' gauge track. He also recommends C & L Finescale, and Marcway as viable options. In the Peco publication "Your guide to O gauge railway modelling", Peco also compliment C & L and Marcway along with their own brand of track. I realize that the '00' gauge code 75 and 100 flat bottom rail fitted 'Streamline' track is a compromise for 16.5 m.m. track gauge, and is produced for domestic '00' and overseas HO - 3.5 m.m./foot scale markets. I am curious why 'O' gauge bullhead track would need to be a compromise, as surely it is not used anywhere else in the world (or is it?), and the 32 m.m. gauge is almost spot-on. Perhaps it is the code 143 flat bottom rail track that is the compromise, but Mr. Emerson does not clarify this? I tried a search on this forum, but could not find anything related to my inquiry. I also tried another forum, but no replies as of this posting. Advice please before I compile my list and send off for yards of track and turnouts etc. Cheers EW