Compound2632

Is this the only occasion on which a vehicle of pre-grouping origin appeared behind a 25 kV electric locomotive?

One could, I suppose, save one's eyesight and support the HMRS by buying copies!

I was just browsing the Lightmoor Press website and spotted "Coming soon: The Ocean Coal Company". That's one I'll be putting on my Christmas list, next year if not this. I have some wagons to finish:

I wouldn't say "much lower"; perhaps "different". The development process may be made less laborious but there's still a thorough understanding both of the prototype and of the manufacturing process needed.

That's the point on which I am ignorant. To what extent were RCH specifications being laid down and adopted by the railway companies for merchandise wagons? Bearing in mind that the Wagon Superintendents' Committee (as it was in pre-grouping days; I presume it continued to function after 1923) was responsible for the specifications - the RCH was not working in isolation from the railway companies but rather was a channel for their co-operation.

Are you familiar with this site: http://www.cs.rhul.ac.uk/~adrian/steam/RCHWagons/index.html? I've not actually looked to see if it has the information you are after. But remember that the RCH specifications were primarily for private owner mineral wagons, so may not have covered such things as 10' wheelbase vehicles. (But I'm only really familiar with the pre-1923 specifications.)

Having Googled, so it is - not far off. I hadn't been aware of that though it confirms my GWR hunch.

The drivers are not just the technology and not just the survival of examples in preservation but the NRM seeking marketing opportunities. But there has been one notable recent example of a pre-grouping locomotive model produced the hard way, working from drawings etc., there being no preserved example - the Bachmann 1532 Class 0-4-4T; there are others at the development stage: the Model Rail Brighton Class E 0-6-0T (though there are pieces in preservation, I understand); and the TMC NER Class O 0-4-4T, which I think is being developed on the back of the work being done towards a full-sized replica. But you'll look in vain for models of specific (as opposed to generic) RTR stock for these engines to pull.

Did they not have all the restored vehicles running together for the final programme?

Burton ale perhaps might skew one's point of view, since the other two of the pre-grouping Big Four didn't have so much as a toe-hold there.

Phil did so. Having looked through my LMS, LNWR, and LYR wagon books I'm confident I've eliminated those companies' designs of implement wagons. But Essery's Midland Wagons turns up trumps. I'm fairly sure the leading vehicle, with deep framing and brake handwheel, is a Midland D314 18 ton Implement Wagon, 12 built to Lots 553 and 581 in 1903/4 [Midland Wagons Plate 301], although it could also be a D313 15 ton Implement Wagon, 12 built to Lot 417 in 1897 [Midland Wagons Plate 300]. The second wagon, with lighter framing, is either a D728 18 ton Implement Wagon, 8 built to Lot 818 in 1912 [Midland Wagons Plate 302] or the 12 ton version, D727, 3 built to Lot 817 in 1912 [Midland Wagons Plate 298]. The others are more of the same types - I suspect they are all the 18 ton versions. The Midland Railway Study Centre holds Derby C&W DO drawings, 1½"/ft scale, with the following references: D313 Drg. 1202 MRSC Item 88-D0038 D314 Drg. 1724 MRSC Item 88-D1806 D727 Drg. 3808 MRSC Item 88-D0751 D728 Drg. 3809 MRSC Item 88-D0758

Could you PM a copy of the photo?

Be careful there: @Regularity models in S scale and may be wondering how you would describe that!

As is typical of Facebook, that image is poorly captioned and uncredited. It appears in full and in high quality in J. Miles, K. Thomas and T. Watkins, The Swansea Vale Railway (Lightmoor Press, 2017) p. 129, where it is credited to the NRM. The location is Ynisygeinon Sidings on the Midland Railway's Swansea Vale line, the date being 1912. Miles et al. suggest that their wagons have been carrying lime, judging by the state of the interiors. The Lilleshall Co. owned limestone quarries in mid-Wales; there were however sources of lime in the Swansea vale. The suggestion is made that they have been sent collect culm - anthracite slack - for lime burning. I agree the Lilleshall wagons show an unusual amount of patching with replacement sheeting, apparently unpainted or possibly just plainly painted. The Lilleshall Company seems to have been rather self-sufficient, even building its own locomotives, so I wouldn't be surprised if it built or at least maintained its own wagon fleet, without recourse to maintenance contracts with the wagon building firms. Other aspects of this photo were discussed a while back on my wagon building thread, including the Midland wagons with sheet rails; a better version of the portion of the photo you posted was posted there, with appropriate credit: Note how scrupulously clean the interiors of the coal wagons are - the unpainted wood is uniformly grimy but there's no small coal or any other dross left in them. And note how prominent the side knees are.

They were repainted more frequently than were railway-company owned wagons - in the works of Turton, Kelham, Pope et al., we read that typically a PO wagon on simple hire or hire purchase would be on a 7-year contract for maintenance, including repainting at mid term. My own feeling is that wagons could get grimy, the paintwork could uniformly degrade with age, but they did not become tatty to degree one sees in post-second world war photos. I'm not a great believer in rust as a form of weathering in the pre-grouping period. I like that Clee Hill photo. Interesting toggle brake on the 2-plank wagon; wooden brake blocks on that and the 4-plank wagon. Both have tie-bars connecting the axleguards, which is unusual for wagons of such antiquity, I think. I don't see how one could apply sufficient force to the brake to spread the wheelbase, especially with wooden brake blocks!