Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

183 Good

Profile Information

  • Location
  • Interests
    Late 1980s ScotRail
    1990s ScotRail
    Modern day developments

Recent Profile Visitors

318 profile views
  1. The Deltics started taking over from steam in 1961, that year marked the last London-Edinburgh non-stop as the Diesels had to call at Newcastle for a for change. The accelerated timings came in from 1962 as my 1962 ScR timetable proudly proclaims accelerated timings for all the ECML named trains in contrast to the greatly extended times of the WCML expresses lengthened by engineering works.
  2. I do appreciate you typing this believe me, but it's still not quite what I meant sorry. This is exactly what I meant as Catkins so succinctly put: Because of the limitations with having only four power settings in the DBSO, I was curious as to which levels of power these corresponded to on the 86s.
  3. I understood that the push-pull system employed changed, but I still don't understand how it worked with the four-notch power controller under TDM control with 86/2s
  4. Thanks all the same but I was more meaning how the control system was set up. I had someone very kindly explain how the 47/7s were set-up with the DBSO in terms of what each power notch in the DBSO gave, and I know that with DVTs the TDM would demand a proportion of power and tap-changer locos (86/ 87s) would simply set a proportional equivalent of taps but I wondered what happened with DBSOs and 86s. In other words what did each of the 4 power notches demand from/give with the 86? Did they set a proportion of power similar to how an ac EMU of the period was set-up: OFF Notch 1 - shunt Notch 2 - half power Notch 3 - full power Notch 4 - weak field It couldn't be exactly that as 86/2s have no weak field taps, only 86/1s do by virtue of effectively being 87s. So some modification of that set-up must have been used. Unless it was more like the 47/7s and you got about 10%, 25%, 60% and 100% power with each respective notch? I've never managed to find out and I've always wondered.
  5. Or there's an even similar option - do as CIÉ did and use the Standard class interior for First as well and only finally change it after the business clientele complains!
  6. Mk3 DVT - like a 90, same style power controller, 7-step brake, speedset Mk4 DVT - like a 91, same style power controller marked out 0-10 but fully variable, 7-step brake, speedset Other driving trailers: Mk2f DBSO - like a 1970s EMU crossed with a loco, four-notch power controller, normal twin-pipe air-brake controller. Class 489 GLV - like an EMU, four-notch power controller, Auto-Air/EP brake controller One thing I have often wondered is how the DBSO were set up with 86s, anyone know?
  7. The last to be built would be the Mk2d (both First Corridor and Brake First Corridor types) for loco-hauled coaching stock and the six first class compartments in the DTFoL driving trailers of the Class 442 EMUs for units. The prototype HST was originally going to have a corridor first trailer but this was changed before construction commenced. I think this may have coincided with the decision to serve meals at-seat in first class on some trains, the Harris Mk2 book gives this as the reason why the Mk2e and 2f stock was built as all open saloon types.
  8. TOCs are running ammended timetables with ammended diagrams, so there's little point looking on RTT which doesn't really show booked traction correctly except for ScotRail and GBRf anyway.
  9. Just because of the tendency on many (though by no means all of course) for steam heat, vac brake Mk1s to become pressure vent, air brake Mk2s over the course of the 1980s, I wondered if it applied to the G&SW Carlisle trains, as the Stranraer trains seemed to become Mk2s by the late-1980s. While I can never remember the number of coaches for running at certain speeds, the limit then as now on the G&SW was 70 to Kilmarnock, 75 to Dumfries and up to 80 to Gretna Junction, so I'm not sure shorter formations would've impacted that much on speeds other than on the shared section of the WCML into Carlisle but I can appreciate the point in your comment about running a longer train. Certainly ScotRail had aspirations to upgrade the line to a sustained 90mph, while singling more of it, in the early/mid-1980s. Cheers, I tried flickr but seemed to only turn up either steam days or post-Sprinterisation, with a few early 1980s shots or shots of WCML diverts. The ScotRail Carlisle trains were elusive! Interesting use of an all compartments formation, I hadn't expected that with a trolley service. I assume by virtue of it being a /4, that they were electric heated the Mk1s? Also, do you know if they were vacuum or air braked? Thanks for the details, would the Glasgow-Stranraer services ever divert via the G&SW, or would you only really see the Euston sleeper and day train?
  10. In the early 1980s, the remaining through services over the ex-Glasgow & South Western mainline to Carlisle via Kilmarnock and Dumfries were formed of rakes of usually 5 vacuum braked, steam heated Mk1s. This is what I understand based on the 1983 Scottish Region carruage marshalling book. My question is what sort of stock formed these services from Glasgow Central via Kilmarnock and Dumfries to Carlisle immediately before the introduction of the 156s? I think they must still have been locos and stock as most are marked in the 1988 timetable as conveying a trolley, which I don't think would fit through the seats, so I'm reasonably confident they would be loco-hauled. My guess is 47/4s(?), but I've no idea of whether these workings remained Mk1s until Sprinterisation or whether Mk2s made an appearance. And would anyone know what a typical formation would be in around 1988 as well? Thanks.
  11. Looking at an FGW plan when sets still had two TF, lettering was A-H, G & H being the TFs. Moving to the last seating plan, GWR January 2019, lettering for was indeed A-F Std class, K the buffet or TC vehicle, L the TF. It's worth remembering that GWR operated three basic HST formations: Low Density High Density Super-High Density Within those there were also some variations in type of buffet car, as well as a few other things. The logic was that 'A' was given to the van area of the TGS to denote where the cycle storage was -"Coach" A. The seating area of the TGS was lettered B.
  12. Technically there were two such accidents - Buttevant in 1980 where the 1000 Dublin-Cork Super Express derailed over some incorrectly set temporary points at 65-70mph. The train had 12 coaches, six of timber construction and most of these disintegrated in the crash. This prompted the order for the MkIIIs but before the first of these entered traffic in July 1984, another accident occurred at Cherryville on the Dublin-Cork mainline where a Tralee-Dublin train broke down and was rear-ended by a Galway-Dublin train proceeding under caution. This accident I believe led to the concentration of timber stock to lesser used lines and limited them to 70mph, once the MkIIIs were in traffic. As to MkIIs, CIE ordered 73 brand new from BREL, the first entered traffic in December 1972, with the launch of the new fleet proper with the April 1973 timetable. These were subsequently referred to as MkIId stock but are actually more akin to MkIIf. The new vehicles allowed for greater service provision and a significant advertising campaign was made for them branding them as 'The Supertrain'. These were air-conditioned but vacuum braked. In the early 1990s CIE was short of stock so bought some Mk2a and c from Vic Berry scrap yard in exchange for some locos. These retained their air-brakes. Speeds were 75mph on CIE metals until July 1984, when the MkIIIs when it was raised to 90.
  13. I would hope steel underframes! I think the last coaches constructed without such were built at the turn of the 20th century ISTR reading.
  14. Were the surviving Gresley buffets wooden-framed or simply wood-panelled? As a matter of intetest, if the latter, what was the last wooden-framed passenger stock in revenue service? I know the CIÉ had timber-framed stock in service 'til the mid-80s, did BR manage earlier than the 1970s or not?
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.