Pteremy

I have not seen one in the flesh yet - waiting for a different livery - but it does seem that Oxford have produced a decent model of an early tank wagon. Hopefully it will be a commercial success. And if so perhaps they will be tempted to use the experience to develop the later 'Air Ministry' tank wagons.

Is that a cradle mount?

Yes. The captions in all 3 books are a weakness in the sense that I do not think that the photographic evidence, much of it new and excellent, is always evaluated as critically as it might have been. Things are missed, misinterpreted or the subject of spurious speculation. To give another example, on page 679 of Volume 3 there is a photo of a Class 120 DMU in the Exe Valley platform at Dulverton, on the last day of the Exe Valley service (5/10/63). The caption includes speculation that this was '..possibly the first time a DMU had been used on the service?' And yet it is recorded elsewhere that in Summer 1963 the 12.50pm Exeter to Dulverton service (arr Dulverton 2.07pm, dep 3.15pm) was provided by a 3 car DMU set, with photographic evidence of both Class 120 and Class 116 being used. For example, on 23 June 1963 Laira Class 120 Set LA503 was used - see p51 of John Owen's master work on the Exe Valley, p163 of Modern Railways 1963, or Whitehouse's Branch Line Album. B&W photos from eBay (possibly still available) show a Class 116 unit in use on 6th July 1963.

This was the first issue I have managed to get my hands since lockdown, thanks to my wife/daughter who go shopping while I am required to 'hide away'. It is fine. The difficulties they faced producing the issue are addressed in the editorial. I don't why some people have it in for Model Rail - in my view it is good value for money.

Yes it is.

Well I have a blue 3 car set which includes 51332 and 51334, for which domes would be accurate (albeit you would not have expected both numbers in the same set). But I also have a green 3 car set which does not have appropriate numbers. Comparing the Lima with Bachmann reminded me that Lima had not done a bad job on the underframe detail, albeit in simplified form. But you get 2020 performance from the Bachmann mechanism, assisted by the electrical pick up from all three coaches

And yet the exchanges illustrate something about different perspectives, and a desire to get to a better understanding of 'the truth'. I have learnt something about the GWR/WR mainline, and something about geography. Personally I would not be so dismissive of the diversion from the main subject of the thread.

I don't think this is right. The OS map shows a dog legged field boundary west of Milley Bridge, just as in the photo. It also shows Milley lane running to the north of the bridge, and Milley Road to the south. Truth is both posters are right. The railway terminology is quite logical, because the infrastructure has spread east from Ruscombe. But geographically the railway has always been 'passing' Waltham St Lawrence (to the south east). If the prominent signs for 'Waltham St Lawrence' were at the bridge when the photo was taken you can understand why that was given as the location.

Whether or not the buffer beams are correct for use in traffic Bachmann appear to have got the lining right. The green whiskered set is numbered as Southall set SHL308 51349/51391/59501. Thanks again to the Railcar site this would have been the '18th set', delivered summer 1960, by which time lining was applied from new. I think that I will be keeping the red buffer beams, on the rule 1 assumption that some were rushed into use without blackening.

I think that earlier in this thread - if not, on a prototype related thread on RMWeb - it was mentioned that the first 4 117 sets actually had domed headcode boxes. The Railcar website has photos showing this, for example 51334 from the 3rd set: https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/101/?id=101 In some photos the doomed head code boxes have very obviously rivetted/studded rims where the box was attached to the roof, rather like the Derby built class 127s. For example see 51374 (from the 1st set) in May 1961 on page 76 of Kevin Robertson's First Generation DMUs, where the weathering to the white cab roof shows this well.

The 'Railcar' site has photos that appear to show red buffer beams https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/117/works/5cr-145.jpg

Out of curiosity I looked up this location on the online OS map. 'Milley Bridge' is marked prominently. So if it had been me I suspect that I would have recorded the location as that!

Ran my 117 for the first time last night. Really impressed by the mechanism - ran incredibly smoothly straight out of the box, even at a slow crawl (on DC).

On tail loads there are three examples in Kevin Robertson's First Generation DMUs: p25 2 car 108 set with SR PMV (on way to Bletchley, 8/61) p40 3 car 120 set with LMS (?) Stove R (on way to Hereford, 6/58) p66 Pair of 122 singles with 2 milk tanks, crossing Royal Albert Bridge bound for Plymouth (4/62) And two slightly more recent examples in Brian Morrisons British Rail DMUs: p72 3 car 104 set with SR (?) PMV (on way to Ipswich, 6/79) p188 3 car 120 + 122 single with 12T Insulated Fish Van (on way to Aberdeen, 6/79)

Squinting might get you a 118 but not a 116. And you are assuming that a lot of different tooling would be required when that probably isn't really the case - small step to a 118, slightly bigger one to a 116 because of the different layout to the middle coach. As for the 'general public' I doubt that is where the market for £300 DMU's is, it is with those who value the small prototypical differences. It is a bit like saying that manufacturers should not bother making more than, say, two types of coach in any style, a brake 2nd and a corridor 2nd. But fortunately that isn't true anymore, even different lengths of underframe being accommodated.

I am sure that is right. But I hope that the pent up demand for 116/118s etc is noted somewhere, given that the differences are not so great in the grand scheme of things.

I hope you are wrong. Today manufacturers are much more willing to consider variations on a theme, be it liveries or relatively slight prototypical changes or differences, than they were when Lima produced their 117. Of course there has to be money in it for them. But I reckon that the 116/117/118/121/122/149/150 family offers a good opportunity for someone. On the mystery tour, as it is a rule 1 journey there will be plenty of scope to include appropriate refreshment/comfort stops in the timetable.......

Great to see the excellent reviews. Let us hope that this increases the chances of seeing 116s, 118s and driving trailers for the 121/122s, either directly or via commissions. (But selfishly SYP versions in first batch(es) please!) Until then I will be happy with a Rule 1 whiskers 117 on a 'mystery excursion' from London.

This is only a 'rule 1' purchase for me. But i reckon that if the upper window angle can be fixed (so more nearly parallel than 'droopy') then most people will think that this is the Peak to have.

Looking at the Heljan illustrations on page 1 of this thread the roof curve starts well below the rainstrip. So perhaps it is the arc of the rain strip across the front is wrong, with consequences of the upper slope of the windows?

The Sins of The Fathers. Apparently there was also a layout featured in an episode of Frost. https://railwaypages.com/trains-on-tv-and-screen

The BTF film 'Modelling For the Future' deserves a mention here, a film devoted to the large model layout of a possible channel tunnel railway terminal, as it was envisaged in 1961. Perhaps not quite what the original post was after, as the layout had a serious 'modelling' purpose rather than just entertainment. But fantastic viewing nonetheless.

Or - with the arrival of the Bachmann Cl117/CL121 - some of the missing links - Cl 116/118 and Trailers for the Cl121/122.

Another slight oddity is the photo on page 562. This is described as the 1.17pm from Barnstaple Junction to Taunton on 30/8/61, crossing the Tone viaduct. 1961 is a suspect date because the visible coaches are BR Mk1s, which did not appear regularly on local services on this line until 1963. But happily the picture has been published at least twice before: in Railway Magazine 1965 (p60) and In MJ Fox's Railways In and Around Taunton (p69) (although there it is printed back to front). According to the Railway Magazine it is in fact 5336 on the 3.50pm from Barnstaple, on Saturday 5th September 1964. (Fox - the photographer - gives the same date in his book but does not specify a time.) At the front of the train are 3 milk tanks, and milk tanks could also be sent to Taunton on the corresponding weekday service - the 4.10pm - for example, see page 326 of Volume 2 and page 563 of Volume 3. Prior to use on the 4.10/3.50pm the WR coaching stock for this service was used for an early afternoon service between Barnstaple Junction and Torrington, so this would have been a convenient way to transfer milk tanks on to Taunton when, for whatever reason, this was required. (In fact the 2.47pm Torrington to Barnstaple Jct was the first leg of the majority of milk traffic from Torrington to London. Up to eight loaded tankers and a van would be attached to the 2.47pm (arr BJct approx 3.30pm) for transfer to the 3.00pm Ilfracombe-Exeter passenger train (dep 3.45pm BJct). Reformed into milk trains at Crediton (with milk from other destinations) they then worked to Exeter, where the tankers were split into milk trains for WR and SR route destinations in London.)

I agree. I do not want a Fell, or a Leader. But I didn't think I wanted a (G)WR Gas Turbine either, and yet it is a semi plausible 'Rule 1' possibility for me so I am going to have one. So if you can get the numbers together then why not do these limited edition runs. The basics are universal - it has to look right, and it has to operate (run) to good, modern standards (DC or DCC). With a few successes, and a little any luck, lets hope that others will start to do the same for carriage and wagon stock. As far as I can see 'Bespoke RTR' is the modern equivalent of e.g. quality brass kits that made the more obscure available to those with the means (in skill) to create them.