Ken.W

Talking of stray Royal Scots, the album "Steam Motive Power Centres No.5, Newcastle" ( D.Dunn / Book Law) has a picture, dated 26 Aug '61, of Scot 46162 at Newcastle Central with a relief from Birmingham, and Gresley stock from the first two coaches which can be seen. I suspect for the same reason, at York. A few pages further on is a July '56 photo of a pair of Jubilees either side of the island platforms 9 & 10 (3 & 4 now), both on excursion trains, 45569 of Holbeck with one from Derby, and 45648 of Kentish Town one from Manchester. First coach of the Derby's ex LMS, rest unseen.

Ah yes of course, that was the one l meant to put, now corrected. Thanks

"Newcastle Full Loads" isn't a term I've ever heard of before, it was always known to us as TCFD, which is how it was shown on diagrams etc, or colloquially simply as Park Lane, the name of the junction at its north end. And yes, it was actually developed on the site of the former Borough Gardens loco depot (54C / 52J), closed in June '59 I believe the last products of Vickers, Elswick were the Challenger 2, however as l understand it all MBTs from the Centurion onwards were out of gauge for UK rail transport. The army trailers previously mentioned, which were conveyed from TCFD, were the small 2-wheeled type suitable for towing by Land Rovers

Not sure where the fuel tanks for Gateshead came from, they either could have arrived at TCFD on a Speedlink service that served the yard, or in a trip working from Tyne Yd. Also, it was always TTA type tanks for this period. The oil tanks from Jarrow were a block train working to wherever they were for, and were bogie tanks. This was another working that would have passed by TCFD, they were staged at Tyne Yd for onward journey.

The fuel pipes for locos are much larger diameter with a screw on connection. Zooming in on the top photo above, what looks like it could be a fuel hose can be seen laying on the ground - the large diameter one just in front of the green cabinet under the far end of canopy. Fuel pipes for DMUs were smaller with car filling style nozzles, the trigger of which can be latched open, but still too large and fast for a road vehicle. Fuelling was done by a member of shed staff. What else was done their would depend on facilities at the the depot. The Gateshead fuel point had a two road 'daily shed' with a third road alongside, so could handle three locos at a time. As well as fuel, coolant, boiler water, sand, and screen wash would be topped up and the basic 'fuel point exam' done. 'A' exams were also done here if due - anything higher went to the main shed to be done. Inside the daily shed was a small mess room for the fuel point staff (2 fitters and a labourer per shift) and loco crew allocated there - the crew arriving with the loco would simply stable it on the fuel point, or queued outside and the rest was left to the shed crews. At Gateshead we had one crew on the daily shed and two on the main shed per shift, and the regular drivers on these turns were 'green card' men although they were also covered by spare men as required. As for accountancy / anti-pilfering, this was simply the fueller recording the fuel taken by each loco, and in any case, BR used 'red' diesel. Besides, the access to most fuel points, you wouldn't want to take your car anywhere near even if you could get the fuel in

Normal practice would be to have a concrete apron at the fuel point. Also, when planning the positioning of it, note it was standard practice to fuel locos on arrival onto the depot, not prior to departure. The number of depot layouts I've seen doing this the wrong way round! You don't want your train delayed while the loco's in a queue to be fueled

The destinations give a good clue as to the traffic for those workings; TCFD, the traffic handled in the yard as mentioned above Simonside, 'cripples', this was the local wagon repair shops, so anything going for repair and repaired vehicles on return. Heaton North Yard, had a coal yard and Blue Cicle cement depot. Would also handle fuel oil and stores for Heaton Depot. Coxlodge, Rowntree at Fawdon and explosives at Callerton as mentioned above Southwick, Austin & Pickersgill was a shipyard on the Wear As well as freight to and from the yard there'd be a considerable amount of passing freight on the main lines during this period. Principally frequent trip workings of coal and returning empties between the Durham Coast collieries and Stella South (Blaydon), Stella North (Newburn), and Cambois (Blyth) power stations. Initially in the 80s still Cl.37 hauled 21 & 24 ton unfitted hoppers, with double-headed 37 trains of HBA (the Railfreight non-MGR type) taking over, later giving way to Cl.56 haulage. While Follingsby Freightliner terminal at Wardley on the Leamside line was operating, as the connection with the terminal faced North, all departing trains were routed via Gateshead, so passing TCFD. Arriving trains from the south though were routed via the Leamside and propelled back into the terminal. Similarly, the connection from Tyne Dock faced North so traffic to or from there would be routed via Gateshead. (The South facing connection with the coast line at Pontop was a late addition)

The TCFD pilot was, as far as l knew, always an 03 turn. Maybe an 08 was used occasionally if an 03 was unavailable, or in its last couple of years when they were being withdrawn. Regarding working of the yard, the through sidings, between the main running lines and the NCL shed were reception / departure roads, and used for making trains up ready for departure. Loading and unloading was done in the shed, and in further sidings beyond the shed. For the Cartics, there was an unloading dock, on the same side of the main lines, to the north of the A184 (Felling By-pass) road overbridge, with a large storage compound for the unloaded cars alongside. Conversation with a colleague confirms it wasn't just Ford's, Datsuns which came in via Tyne Dock, and Vauxhalls were also mentioned (and probably others too). Maybe your cartics could disappear off scene, being hauled by the pilot out under the roadbridge, to reappear later being propelled back in empty! On the other side of the main lines opposite the car unloading dock was a 2-road coal drops for household coal, the wagons shunted across by the yard pilot. Another traffic at TCFD was the fuel tanks for Gateshead Depot, which were tripped there by the yard pilot (without brakevan) which returned with the empties. The so called 'Factories Pilot' - the trip working to Dunston and Blaydon previously mentioned, unusually although a Gateshead turn, ran from Tyne Yard not the TCFD. Also, it was worked by an 03 off Gateshead depot not the TCFD pilot, and by this period traffic on this was down to the Greenmarket (TVTE), Thompson's scrapyard (Dunston riverside) - 16t mineral wagons, loaded out, and Blaydon coalyard, also 16t minerals. Not all were daily though. Use of an 03 for this turn had little to do with speed though, it was only an appprox 5 mile trip even when it did need to go to Blaydon on what was then still a freight only line. The sidings at the back of Blaydon coal yard were very sharply curved and l recall being told when learning this turn they couldn't be shunted by an 08.

It still doesn't seem to have been established which wagons the NER used for the lime traffic, was just showing the roofs were high enough for the 20t hoppers. On the drops it would have to have been some sort of hopper or bottom discharge wagon though - bear in mind that on the drops, outside of the rails was boarded for staff walkways so side door wagons wouldn't be suitable.

From what I've read, 2nd Class Pullman was withdrawn around the same time as the change to grey/blue, being replaced by ordinary 2nd Class accommodation. Brakes could be a brake 2nd, or Mk1 BG. Many of the Pullman 2nds were re-designated as ordinary First Open, in normal blue/grey

I mentioned in the previous coal cells thread that I'd seen pics of a 20t hopper on the covered cells at Goathland. Have found these two to post links; (Select link then open from pop-up menu for them to work) https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1148743 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atlasobscura.com%2Fplaces%2Fgoathland-station&psig=AOvVaw3EwFUe65N3cRrBSQhd1w36&ust=1678892945608000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCKCUt-DZ2_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAk

Not that far from Selby there's a similar, but shorter, coal drops with two covered lime cells at the end, that still exists at Goathland NYMR. The lime cells are enclosed apart from the front of the cells and the rail entry, the other end adjoins the station building. There's no windows. There was a suggestion above the roof at Selby was maybe damaged by too high a wagon, I've seen a pic if the Goathland one with a NER 20t wooden hopper inside. Comparing my models, the 21t steel hoppers were the same height. Posts above suggest at Selby they were roofed pre-war but appear un-roofed post, so perhaps the roof was removed by our continental friends, or as not required after chemical fertilisers had taken over. Regarding use of the end cell by coal hoppers where the cells were uncovered, measuring a model 21t steel hopper, it appears the hopper door towards the end may have been able to empty into the end cell. I'm not sure of the door arrangement on the 20t wooden hoppers. However, particularly on longer drops like Selby, would it have been necessary or convenient to use the end cell? If there's no over-run it would need the wagon shunted right up to the buffer stop, and bear in mind that there was a general prohibition on any loco going onto drops* which meant use of other wagons as reach wagons to get it there. * There could be exemptions in local instructions

Thanks, had missed that, doesn't get them on the Pullmans though, apart perhaps an odd last minute failure substitute. Haven't seen any pics or reference to that though For the Mk1 era (quoted as 1963 formation); 2nd brake 2nd kitchen 1st parlour 1st kitchen 1st kitchen 2nd brake Ref; p210 LNER Passenger Trains & Formations 1923-67 (Banks & Carter) OPC

Pullman cars were discribed as either Parlour - all seating, or Kitchen - seating with a kitchen, and all were effectively dinning cars as one of the distinctions of Pullman services was that meals were served at the passengers seats, rather than them having to leave their seat and go to a diining car as on normal servjces. Hence the several small kitchens, which avoided carrying the food throughout the train, the kitchens would just serve their own and adjoining cars. I've researched the formations for the Queen of Scots and Tees Tyne Pullmans around the 1960 period, both traditional and Mk1 types. For the 8 car sets, including two brake ends making effectively severn passenger cars , there were three kitchen cars in the formations. The Tees-Tyne also included a bar taking up part of another of the parlour cars. The QoS had an additional two coaches south of Leeds, one of which was another kitchen.

Class 40s appear to have been fairly quickly demoted from main ECML duties, due to their weight to power ratio (yes, it was more like that way round!) Also the ECML didn't have Britannnias, the only regular EC workings with them I've heard of was GE section ones working into Kings X with Cambridge trains. Steam on the Pullmans appears to have been normally A1s, A4s, and A3s. From the several albums l have, the A1s seem to have been most common on the Yorkshire services. Bear in mind that the LNER built more Pacifics that all the rest put together, including BR.

The Talisman famously included a Coronation twin first, but l don't believe the Hearts included any Coronation stock. The original question refers to the Coronation service. l know 9Fs had the knickname of Spaceships, but it would have had to have got through a time warp as well to work the Coronation which last ran the eve of WW2 😉

Comparing the sound of the Sulzer type 2s with type 4s, bear in mind that running at the same rpm the type 2 has half the number of cylinders firing

Well, l never had anything to do with either those routes or the 150s, but for a start I'd expect you'd allow a lot more stopping time with a Pacer - just to make sure that you actually did so!

The arrangement at Colton Jn seems to have been discussed a few times The turnout's 125mph in either direction, so there's a feather for both routes, ECML left and Normanton right, and either direction can be approached on clear greens. When put in l recall extra bright feathers were fitted which could be clearly seen from a considerable distance. Then about a decade later, they went and put a row of masts up in front of it so you now get only a few hundred yards sighting of it, and a 91/Mk4 can, from York stop, be approaching at about 110. As l said to a mate once, if you get the right hand feather, remember those two buttons on the desk, Pan Up, and Panic - pointing at Pan Down There is a run-off wire onto the Normanton so the Down Main wires wouldn't get ripped down, and on running out of wire the Over Height Valve would drop the pan if it hadn't been already

Corrected that bit for you 😉 I always called them the only trains with brakes an optional extra, you didn't trust them from one stop to the next, would stop fine at one station, and sail happily straight through the next. In 40 years l only twice failed a train due to deficient brakes - both 143s

Zooming in on the still, is that a mobile held to his ear?

And all that's before we come to railway docks and ships

Would depend on the coupling method. Buffers are retracted when buckeyes are in use, and extended otherwise

Yes, it would have been more to do with where they were in the maintenance cycle than simply on age. It clearly makes more sense to retain those with the most recent overhauls rather than to withdraw them and then have to overhaul the ones that are retained. Besides, in the case of the 91s, as l recall, there was only about 3 years between the early and later ones, marginal to the 30+ years they've been in service

Hmm, what's more appropriate than the most well known loco, with several records, so like it or not is iconic, which has been virtually continuously in the Hornby range... And in its Centenary year? Compared to a loco in an obscure form in which most modellers, never mind the general public, will never have heard of???