Jon Harbour

It's a 6 pin decoder in a socket inside the cab. Take a look at this thread.

It is the most plausible theory. Yes of course nobody an be certain, but it is much more likely that some enterprising manager at the relevant factory has 'accidentally' overproduced and the excess to Dapol's order has somehow 'mysteriously' disappeared from the factory.

Still chuckle at the Guy Fawkes van's running number. Wonderful little touch.

I'm sure nobody would want to smell my 'chuff'!

Totally agree - Rails are a very reliable supplier - some minor tweaks on the pre-order process would make all the dfiference!

I experienced these challenges myself recently. Hadn't noticed a charge vs my credit card for a pre-order of Rapido wagons but had no visibility of my pre-order being converted to an order until the stock was dispatched a few days later and I got an e-mail saying the order had been sent. That e-mail also referred to three items I had pre-orders which had not yet arrived from the manufacturer, so it could be a little confusing in figuring out what was sent and what wasn't. A small improvement would be to include a link to the tracking information in that e-mail. Ideally, it would be great to see the pre-order 'transferred' to the list of fulfilled orders. Otherwise, there is no record of my order on the web site.

Some really interesting questions asked on that video. Hopefully the message about the trunk gets through to Rails!

Totally agree about the trunk. For overseas customers it was an absolute game-changer.

What a fantastic photo. Thank you.

Looking forward to receiving mine.... According to DPD it has left the UK...

Woo-hoo! Just got the e-mail from Accuraascale that my banana vans are on their way!

It never fails to amaze me Grahame how quickly your works of art come together. They are just superb.

I really hope so. The e-mail I had from Rails today announcing the 8F arrival said an 8-pin socket... Time will tell.. 🙂

I'm disappointed that the 'new' 8F still has an 8 pin DCC socket when 21 PIN is the defacto standard alongside the Next 18.

Disappointed that these aren't available for shipping to Australia... Never mind...

Added my own "Wallace" order to the pre-order list. At £85 it was hard to resist! Hopefully they have reached the require critical mass now!

Doesn't that look magnificent!

I don't think the price rises are really to blame for Hattons suddenly having to pay the GST. Looking at my own pre-orders - I probably have in excess of $2,000 waiting with Hattons. It doesn't take much... a couple of sound-fitted locos gets you up to about $800, throw in a set of coaches like the Dapol Toplights and / or a Rapido B-Set plus a few of the delightful range of 4-wheel wagons now coming along and you are easily well over a grand. Given the size of Australia - I suspect there are more than 75 of us that buy from Hattons and probably have similar pre-order profiles! I can name at least two other members of my local club that have upwards of $300 in pre-orders with Hattons!

I must confess I find the Discord format of discussion hard to follow! It lives up to its name in a way. I much prefer structured thread format. With the free structure of Discord, I suspect that the same questions are answered over and over again because the original answer is buried inside the pile of messages. But then I suppose the intent is that support for an issue is fairly instantaneous and not intended for later reference.

Yes, That is right. Until this change takes effect, we ddon't pay the UK 20% VAT, which is one of the reasons (if not the main reason) why it is so much cheaper to purchase UK outline trains from Hattons than to buy them in Australia. Yes, with GST applied, it is still a saving compared with the UK price, but it still 10% more than I would pay before. Hattons trunk facility still trumps the negative impact of this increase though. I used to get fed up when pre-ordering a couple of wagons at another store and although they might arrive at that store together from the manufacturer, one would be processed on the Monday, get shipped out and incur a shipping cost and the second would be processed on the Tuesday, get shipped out and incur a second shipping cost even though they were ordered at the same time! Hattons trunk avoids all that hassle. I select what I want to ship and it all goes with a single shipping charge. If you are judicious in what you order, the VAT saving more than pays for the shipping! I agree couriers like DPD, DHL and Aramex are more expensive, but there are the advantages of tracking and speed. The way I read Hattons explanations, if you keep the shipment under $1,000, then no GST is collected at point of arrival so there would be no reason for a courier to charge a fee. I usually get my stuff shipped from Hattons with DHL and have never been charged any service fees or administration fees by them. I still intend to use Hattons and DHL, but I just have to apply a bit of forethought on the size of the shipments!

It's not necessarily seen as problem. It's a change in the status quo which impacts one of Hattons unique selling points over its competitors (but they still have the trunk advantage over other model railway retailers). It means that buying from Hattons, which is significantly cheaper than buying in Australia has suddenly taken a 10% price hit. I started the thread simply to let others know this is coming in case they did not get the mail from Hattons about it. I haven't written to them about this, but I have written to both Federal and State MPs about other matters and they have actually been really helpful. This affects government revenue, so they are unlikely to assist in this case.

Finally, here is the last e-mail response from Hattons _______________________________________________________________________________ Hi Jon, Thanks for getting back in touch. There will be a calculation at the time of purchase and at the time of shipping, assuming that the trunk is used and they are separate occurrences. If the GST was already paid at the time of ordering and no other details have changed (shipping address now in the UK for example) then nothing further would be needed. If an existing item in the trunk was shipped after the change then the calculation would be done and the GST charged at the point of shipping. If a particularly large trunk dispatch occurred which exceeded the GST threshold for collection at the border then the GST we have collected would be refunded back to you. Once implemented, the new system will apply to all orders, whether new or existing pre-orders. I hope this helps. _______________________________________________________________________________ My impression is that they are not exactly thrilled about the situation either, but they are doing their best to minimise costs to their customers. Personally, I don't think it will change much for me, even with the 10% GST purchasing from Hattons is still way cheaper than buying locally. I happened to be in a model shop local to my office at lunchtime today and they had a Peckett 0-6-0-T on offer at $295.95. I can't remember the exact price, but I believe Hattons were offernng them for around $125 which with the GST charged instead of 20% VAT equates to around $218.00.

Here's the original Hattons response: _______________________________________________________________________________ Hello Jon, Thank you for getting in touch. There appears to be a slight misunderstanding regarding when GST should and should not be charged. For orders under $1000, the merchant is responsible for collecting GST and paying it to the Australian Government. For orders over $1000, the merchant is NOT required to collect the GST as this will be done at the border. https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/international-tax-for-business/gst-on-imported-goods-and-services/gst-on-low-value-imported-goods We have been required to collect GST since 2018 and have effectively subsidised customers up to this point as we have not been charging it, this is no longer sustainable for us to do so. I hope this clarifies the situation for you but please don't hesitate to get back in touch if you have any further questions. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is correct, as you delve into it a bit more on the ATO web site, it does say that sellers are expected to collect GST on orders less than $1000. However, there do appear to be two conflicting statements on the web site, but if you try for a ruling with the ATO you know which way that will end up... Here's my response back to Hattons _______________________________________________________________________________ Thanks for the prompt response Tom. I came across that information on another page of the ATO website shortly after I found the first page and sent that e-mail, so my fault for not doing more thorough research before shooting my mouth off. I apologise. The information on the ATO website does appear a little contradictory though. On one page it says no GST on items under $1,000 an on the other it says the seller has to charge it. Hardly seems fair... So, are Hattons going to charge GST at the time of purchase, or the time of shipping and how does this impact items in my trunk? For example, planned for my trunk, I currently have (amongst many other pre-orders): 4S-009-004S Class 28xx/ 2884 2-8-0 2884 in GWR green with shirt button emblem - digital sound fitted £254.99 6x various GWR Toplight Main Line City coaches @ £51 each - total £306.00 The coaches and the locomotive are on separate orders. Individually, each order is under the $1,000 price point, so Hattons are required to charge the GST. However, if they were shipped together which might be a valid scenario if the combined weight was under 2kg (not sure about the weight at this stage to be honest), then the combined value at today's exchange rate comes out at roughly $1,075, which means that GST is charged at port of entry. Will the Hattons system cope with such complexities and ensure I don't pay GST twice? One other thing - does this new GST policy apply to goods ordered before Christmas, or shipped before Christmas? How do pre-orders fit into the equation? I'm sure that a lot of people will have many questions for Hattons over the coming weeks and there will be many clarifications sought. I don't envy you guys having to deal with them all! It probably won't really impact what I order from now on that much, but it will factor into my purchasing considerations. You guys are still much cheaper than the Australian model shops for British outline rolling stock. Regards, Jon Harbour _______________________________________________________________________________

I got an almost immediate response from Hattons last night pointing out that although one ATO web page says under $1000 no GST, another one says that retailers have to pay the ATO the GST anyway up to $1000 and if the shipment is over $1000 then the GST is collected upon entering Australia. Hattons said they have been paying the GST since 2018 when the Australian government introduced this rule but 'subsidising the customer' is no longer sustainable. I'm taking that to mean that the ATO has caught up with them, but I may be wrong. I followed up my initial enquiry to clarify the situation regarding the trunk (which I use extensively) and the over / under $1,000 question. Hattons response was that GST will be charged at the time of payment (so anything you order immediately will be charged GST but anything you pre-order won't be hit with GST until it arrives and you are charged). Then if you ship over $1,000 they refund the GST charged and leave it for the shipper to organise upon arrival in the destination country. My own take on this is that if you keep the shipment to under $1,000, you pay the GST at Hattons but no additional fees with couriers. It means that my shipping costs will possibly increase, as I may need to send more individual shipments (depending upon what I order from Hattons) but I think that approach minimises my costs. I had to chuckle when the original e-mail said that Hattons are "constantly trying to enhance your shopping experience"! No matter how hard you try Hattons - you can't polish that particular Richard III!

Evening everyone, Tonight I received the following e-mail from Hattons: Dear Jonathan At Hattons, we strive to continuously enhance your shopping experience, and we have an important update to share regarding changes to our shopping cart and taxation system. Within the next couple of weeks, we will implement adjustments to our system to ensure that you are charged the correct tax at the time of purchase. This change is part of our commitment to transparency and compliance with local tax regulations in your region. As a valued international customer, we want to bring this to your attention to ensure a smooth transition. The good news is that if you despatch the items in your trunk within the next week, you will be exempt from any additional tax costs associated with these changes. Please note that local customs duties and courier fees may still be charged, we are working on expanding this system to correctly cover landed fees in the future. We understand the importance of budgeting for your hobby, and we want to make sure you have the opportunity to make the most of this window. We appreciate your understanding and continued support as we work to improve our services. If you have any questions or concerns regarding these changes, please don't hesitate to reach out to our customer experience team. Thank you for being a valued member of the Hattons community. We look forward to serving you and providing the best model railway products for your enjoyment. Now no matter how one tries to polish this particular small brown Richard III, this is not an enhancement to my shopping experience! I'm based in Australia, but like most people I am not really 100% across the entire taxation system of the place I call home, but in the back of my mind, I was fairly certain that overseas purchases up to a certain value did not attract the 10% Goods and Sales Tax (GST) charged here. So, after a cursory Google search, I came across this web page: https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/in-detail/rules-for-specific-transactions/international-transactions/gst-and-imported-goods Item 26 on this page made particularly interesting reading: item 26 – goods, other than tobacco, alcohol and bulk orders, with a value less than an amount prescribed by by-law (currently at or below $1,000) This pretty covers me - provided I keep any shipment I send from my wonderful Hattons trunk to a value of less than roughly £490. The taxable amount includes the cost of shipping and the exchange rate is roughly £1.00 = A$1.91. However, One can't assume - I have visions of Hattons implementing a simple "the GST rate in Australia is 10%, so we'll charge that on everything to Australia and we shall be safe". So, to check withHattons themselves,I have sent them this e-mail: Good Evening, Today I received an e-mail concerning the fact that Hattons are to commence charging the local tax amount on overseas sales. Since I am based in Australia, I take this to mean that you will be charging 10% GST on all purchases. Naturally, I am less than thrilled about this development. No matter how you try to dress this up, it isn't good news. As has been said many times in the past, "You can't polish a turd". However, I do have a question concerning this. Are you going to charge this GST on ALL sales, or simply those that qualify? According to the Australian Tax Office web site (https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/in-detail/rules-for-specific-transactions/international-transactions/gst-and-imported-goods) item 26 – GST is not charged by the ATO on goods, other than tobacco, alcohol and bulk orders, with a value less than an amount prescribed by by-law (currently at or below $1,000) . That $1,000 includes the cost of shipping said goods according to that web page I have quoted. So, at what point will you charge the GST? Is it at the time of sale, or, in the case of items in my trunk, at the time of shipping? And if I limit the contents of a shipment from my trunk to less than a value of $1,000, is this GST exempt in your eyes? It should be. By my calculations, allowing for the cost of shipping, provided I keep the value of what I ship out of my trunk to less than £490, I should ensure that whatever is shipped to me remains exempt from GST. The current exchange rate is roughly £1.00 = A$1.91, the cost of DHL shipping is £28.50, which equates to roughly $55. Obviously this will fluctuate with exchanges rates, but it is a reasonable rule of thumb. Whilst I may incur additional shipping costs, I actually work for DHL so I'd rather give my money to my employer than to the Australian Tax Office. Would you kindly confirm that Hattons will indeed observe this threshold when it comes to GST-free purchases please? Thanks and regards, Jon Harbour It will be very interesting to see how this develops? Up until now I have never been charged GST on an order from Hattons - I hope that Hattons implement a system that caters for this properly and they don't do a half-hearted attempt to protect themselves from any liability. I'll keep everyone posted on this!