HonestTom

A couple of photos from the King’s Cross layout. More to come. OH WAIT I forgot I’m an online content creator. “OMG the locomotives caught fire while I was standing there and when I asked Simon Kohler about future releases, he leapt over the display and attempted to strangle me.”

Ah yes, I have that one somewhere. They released it for the 70th anniversary IIRC, which means... oh no... that was thirty years ago...

I think niche scales are far better off these days than they used to be. Starting a "club" of sorts is as easy as creating a Facebook group, or even a thread on here. Not to mention the possibilities of laser cutting and 3D printing to make actual new products available.

I know people who work or have worked for Games Workshop. That does very much have that "community" thing going on, with gaming tables etc, but my friends said it was a bit of a double-edged sword (which they also sell). On the one hand, it helps to get people into the hobby, which leads to sales. On the other, it means that a lot of your shop floor is being taken up for hours at a time by people who aren't going to spend more than a few quid, if anything.

I think that's the point. I won't be buying one at that price, but I wouldn't be buying one at any price, because collecting isn't an aspect of model railways that particularly interests me. I can't get outraged about the price of a model I would never have bought, any more than I could get outraged at the price of the latest games console. What the Centenary range and the Jubilee version of Taw Valley showed was that the collector market has deep pockets, and it doesn't surprise me that Hornby are making the most of it.

I'm sure the models themselves will be lovely, but at that price, I think the word is "oof." Still, the other Hornby Dublo locos seemed to do alright.

To be honest, I feel sometimes that a lot of criticism of the way Hornby are doing things, and the hobby in general, is based on "this is how things used to be and that's how I like it" rather than present-day reality. I mean, there's nothing like that Aladdin's cave feeling of entering a well-stocked model shop, I'd be really sad to see that vanish. But the genie is firmly out of the bottle when it comes to online shopping, and the nature of capitalism is that you have to go for whatever gets you the sales. Now, this has its disadvantages and it doesn't appeal to everyone, but for a lot of people, the price is the deciding factor. I accept the necessary mark-up from my local bricks-and-mortar place because I like the shop and the people, but at present, I can afford to do that. Other people might feel differently, and they're entirely justified in doing so. When it comes down to it, times are hard.

I think Sam is pretty fair with his reviews, in terms of the scope of his channel. He rubbishes some locos, but he's also willing to praise a good quality model. He also rates models by several different qualities individually, so for instance he'll say if a model is good value but low detail or poor running. Where he really falls down as a reviewer, for me and I daresay a lot of people here, is that by his own admission, he's no railway expert. He's not likely to say anything that's outright wrong, but often his comments on detail are more "detail is there" than "detail is correct." But I think that a lot of modellers aren't that interested in historical accuracy as long as things look about right. I watch his videos more for entertainment than to influence my buying choices. I'd say it's not really in his interest to totally trash a model unjustifiably. Firstly because of the risk of being done for slander, and secondly because a YouTube reviewer who trashes everything is quickly going to see their invitations and previews dry up. I experimented with T and the conclusion I came to was that the space is really the only advantage it has. Shunting is basically impossible, detail is invisible, running is temperamental and the limited range of mechanisms means that the majority of locomotive prototypes just can't be modelled unless you're a watchmaker. I've heard mixed things about the quality of that track, but it does surprise me that Hornby have never really gone for something similar (well, unless you count old-skool Hornby Dublo). I keep thinking I'd like to acquire some for the nieces and nephews.

I've not participated in the pre-ballasted track debate on here, but I think this is another argument in favour of it. Track on a base is much more carpet-friendly. My first big 009 projects started with Kato N gauge track for exactly that reason - I could play with it on the carpet in order to evolve my layout ideas.

I sometimes think that what might be an interesting exercise would be to have a model railway, but have little signs explaining the different compromises that are made, e.g. in terms of space, track gauge, operation etc.

See, this is what I was getting at with my point about technology advancing (before people got sidetracked by things I hadn't actually said). Things are possible now that just a few years ago would have been impossible, and technologies are continuing to improve. I believe a machine that could assemble a model locomotive is entirely within the realms of possibility using existing technology. At present, I think the biggest obstacle is the time needed to produce batches using current technology. (Note that I'm not saying such a machine exists right now, or that it's a practical solution right now, just that I think we shouldn't underestimate what's possible)

That's not the market speaking, though. If you restrict people's ability to actually buy the items, then of course no one's going to buy them. And all this before anything's actually come out. Me too. The fact is, RMWeb isn't the be-all and end-all of the hobby. Younger modellers are in a very different position to older modellers - constraints on time, space and money all differ. As I said above, space to set up and store a layout is a key factor for anyone getting into the hobby. Well, there wouldn't be. It's not out yet. Caveat emptor, as with anything else you purchase. The retailer isn't responsible for someone not doing basic, easily-available research.

I'm strictly a micro-layout man at this point and TBH, 009 takes up most of my modelling time these days. I think Hornby may be thinking in these sorts of terms, though. One thing they do emphasise in their publicity is the storage advantages. Without getting into a rant about the housing market (I've rewritten this paragraph about five times), there are an awful lot of people who can't afford to buy a house or even a sizeable flat, even on a substantial income. I'm looking at TT and thinking, could I build a decent, portable Inglenook with that?

Yeah, but the point I'm making is that, it's only an advantage in TT because Hornby don't produce it in 00, which they could also do. There is nothing inherent to TT that makes downloadable trackmats a possibility only in that scale. It's a minor point that I just thought was funny, because I am a whimsical fellow. It doesn't affect my opinion on the scale overall in either direction. Speaking as someone who rents a tiny flat in a big city, I can attest that there's a significant demographic you haven't taken into account there... They discuss it on page 3 of this brochure.

I have no strong opinions on trackmats one way or t'other. As far as I'm aware, no one other than Hornby produce them. I just found it funny that one of the "advantages of TT" that they suggest is one that's entirely invented by them. I'm not sure I follow. The other inherent advantages are compatibility with international standards and scale-gauge accuracy. These are both things Hornby has chosen to promote.

I just wish the crankpins were as reliable...

Yeah, I must admit that I find some of the posts on here a little bit "But apart from all the established advantages of TT, what are the advantages of TT? None? Well, Hornby have failed and will surely go bankrupt. Should have listened to me. What fools." That being said, some of the advantages they list seem a little artificial. Like, I don't see why they couldn't produce a downloadable trackmat in 00.

I am certainly thinking in terms of "wait until it comes out and see what other people say." Or at least, wait until the reviews come out. It looks nice, I'm tempted, but it's a big commitment to start anew. I have nothing against Hornby, but nor am I their cheerleader. But the question then arises, what innovation should they make? The "greatest hits" may be a cliché, but they also represent perennially popular prototypes with a wide sphere of usage.

It seems to me that Peco are producing products aimed at modellers with some experience, like building kits and flexi-track, whereas Hornby are aiming at producing much more straight-out-of-the-box models (e.g. ready-made buildings, track packs for expanding train sets). I wonder if there was some discussion, formal or informal, between the two companies as to what was whose turf. It would make a certain amount of sense with a totally new market to take measures to avoid duplication.

That's where I'm at. If there are glaring errors obvious at a glance, then no, I'm not likely to buy it. If I really have to look to see what's missing, particularly when the locomotive's in motion, I'm happy to compromise. Of course, what's "obvious at a glance" will vary from modeller to modeller, but that's a different discussion. I think the thing with a Hogwarts Express is that it is very definitely a kiddie model. If Hornby are indeed aiming at the serious modeller, they might not want to go for it. Or at least, they might be waiting to see how the main range does. Indeed, these days, many small suppliers only sell online. Even if you have a good model shop nearby, that's no guarantee that they'll stock every little thing. This is kind of where I'm at. I must admit that I'm tempted by the concept but I would like a better idea of what I can actually do with it, as someone with little space. I think the thing with T is that it's a radical step down from N in a way that Z isn't. The gauge is about a third of N, the detail (such as is possible) is barely visible. Having dabbled, the attraction of T seems to be partly the fact that you can get that "trains in the landscape" effect and partly just the novelty of something so tiny. Z, on the other hand, is trying to achieve the same thing as N, but in less space.

I can't and I never said I could. I simply said that manufacturing technology is advancing very quickly and gave an example of a way in which this is happening, not "it is possible right now for a bloke in his shed to be Hornby." It's kind of beside my original point, but since people asked, what I specifically had in mind was these wagons, with which I have experience. These duplicate Bachmann's own Talyllyn slate wagons. Now, it is fair to say that they aren't quite ready-to-run - they do need painting and couplings fitted. However, they come with wheels fitted and the couplings included, plus loads. I got my entire rake running on my layout, including basic painting and light weathering, in under an hour. I'm by no means a skilled modeller. The detail is crisp, certainly on a par with Bachmann's version of the same model, and the build quality is also to a high standard. Three of the Bachmann models will typically set you back a little over £40 from the box shifters and this gentleman is offering six for £25 (in both cases, this is before P&P). While there is a certain amount of fettling involved, it's no more than is required to fit the additional details to a modern RTR locomotive and for the cost saving, it's worth it IMO.

It was noted when Peco announced their TT range that it seemed odd that they were producing a steam age wagon and GWR station buildings, but no one was making a suitable locomotive. Could be coincidence, but it does fit nicely. Or perhaps Hornby noticed the same thing we did - it's not clear how far along the 57xx is. And as an aside, I believe the availability of cheap N-gauge mechanisms from Japan and 3D-printed bodies to go on top of them is a major factor in the rise of 009 in recent years. I've lost track of how many Kato tram chassis I've bought over the last few years. "He's obsessed with that model railway, he should be committed."

I think then the question is, would people want these features if they weren't available? I don't recall anyone clamouring for opening cab doors etc. It was simply accepted that they were things that weren't practical and, for the vast majority of modellers, were of little use. Couldn't similar things be said of any new manufacturing technology? For that matter, what's to stop the manufacturers from cranking their own models out on their own machines? Technology advances incredibly fast these days. It's not so long ago that 3D printers cost thousands of pounds and could only produce models that looked like they'd been carved out of a stack of cards. These days you can buy a high-fidelity printer for less than the cost of a new locomotive, and there are people on eBay cranking out models comparable to those of the main manufacturers at a fraction of the cost.

Besides, the survivors will be too busy getting the strategic steam reserve up and running to worry about model railways. (I know, the UK SSR almost certainly never existed, but a boy can dream)

I think a lot of people here are assuming that there's a binary division - either a person is a hardcore modeller who will demand high fidelity, or a non-modeller who would be satisfied with an 0-4-0-and-two-wagons set. Rather, it seems to me that they're aiming at people new to the hobby, who nevertheless want to get off to a good start. Adults, young and old, looking to get into the hobby. If Hornby can say, "Our models in this scale don't compromise on gauge, our sets are historically accurate and our prices are reasonable," then that's potentially very attractive to someone browsing online. They're offering something that's a real starting point for serious modellers.