Nigelcliffe

The replies you've had recently from Uhlenbrock are misunderstanding - the CV100 setting tells us the lights output is on Aux5, not Aux4. And thus what they're trying to do won't work. This starts from using JMRI, and selecting the decoder: Uhlenbrock / IntelliDrive2 / Tilig E44 Open up the "Ext Function Mapping" pane, and select the option on drop menu of "Bank Programming". And use that to select what's needed, noting the CV changes that happen as a consequence (below). I then checked some of it back to the decoder manual. Assumptions (from previous standard function mapping values) - lights are on Front Light, Rear Light, Aux1, Aux2 and Aux5. Where I use "set" I'm expecting you to write something to the decoder. Where I use "check" its read it back the value. If not correct, report the value you find before changing anything else. Those values match what the manual and the JMRI page says are the defaults in the decoder. First step - enable the Advanced Function Map, Set CV96=1 (to turn off and revert to standard function map, set CV96=0) Before we begin, need to set the Index Key Values, do this once (we reset them when finished): Set CV31=8 Set CV32=0 Uhlenbrock extend the number of CV's available using the index values (as do ESU). In Uhlenbrock's case, its always CV31=8, but CV32 can take values 0,1,2,3,4. We're only using CV32=0. First Group : Use the F0-key, in the Forward Direction, to operate the following lights: Front Light, Aux2 (rear light), and Aux5 (interior light) ( all with indexes: 31=8, 32=0 ) Check : CV257=144 (F0-key and forward direction) Check : CV263=0 (not needing the reverse direction here) Set: CV269=18 ( Outputs: Aux2, Aux 5) Check : CV270=1 (output: FrontLight) Second Group : Use the F0-key, in the Reverse Direction, to operate: Rear Head Light, Aux1 ("front" rear light), and Aux 5 (interior) ( all with indexes: 31=8, 32=0 ) Check: CV273=16 (F0-key) Check: CV279=128 (reverse direction ) Set: CV285 = 17 (outputs: Aux1, Aux5) Check: CV286=2 (output: Rear Head Light) Now reset the Index Key values: Officially ought to Set CV31=0. But as the only value of CV31 that Uhlenbrock use is 8, you could leave this alone. Pedantically we also set the other index, Set CV32=0, but as it was zero anyway, no need to actually do this. That should be it (famous last words), with two groups set, the F0-key should operate the lights required in both forward and reverse directions. I wouldn't have got here without the JMRI decoder file, and it probably helps that I've written other JMRI decoder files, such as some of the Zimo stuff. If you still want the F2-key to offer the parking lights, and the F4-key to operate the interior when not using the F0 key, those need additional groups adding to the Advanced Function Mapping.

CV100=8 says there is a "shift" operating on CV38. (below) The remainder of your quoted information makes sense (though doesn't list CV38 which defines what the F4-key does.). The "set other values to zero" is more about "getting oneself confused", it doesn't matter if you don't get confused. So, example where they are not "set to zero" would be the tail lights which operate either on the Lights (F0-key) or the F2-key. The CV100=8 meaning there is a shift on the values set in CV38. CV38=32 now says that the lights are on Aux5, (not Aux4). That then makes your end-goal more complicated, can't do it by changing CV33/CV34 because its not possible with the "shifts" to have both the lights outputs (headlight/tailight) and Aux5 at the same time. So, the only other way to address this is the Advanced Function Mapping options. It should be possible, but it means putting all of the function behaviour within Advanced Function Mapping. So, complete change of tack. If Advanced Function Mapping is turned on (CV96=1) then all function mapping goes to the Advanced behaviour. Question is whether you want to go there ? I think it can be done. Trying to make sense of the decoder manual (my German is weak, so it takes a long time) suggests this is really a JMRI/DecoderPro problem as the sequence of CV's required is complicated. There is a decoder for an Uhlenbrock/Tillig loco with a Next18 decoder inside JMRI, and that appears to have advanced function mapping functionality. So that's where I'd go to set this up.... Making the changes (I have no decoder to check against) suggests there are three CV's to set to make it work. So even without JMRI connected to your system, it would be possible to work out the values and set them manually....

OK, I'm now starting to feel stumped. For some reason a value of 32 (32 plus the other outputs in each case) in CV33 and CV34 isn't being acted upon. The values in CV38 should be irrelevant. Read back the values in CV100 and CV101 Its possible that a value is shifting how CV38 works (and thus how the F4-key works), and its not really "Aux4" as the interior lights output, but something else....

Changed to what ? I can't diagnose on guesswork.

Yes, sorry, CV34=38 If this works the lights correctly on F0-key, then if F0-key (lights) is turned on, the head/tail/interior lights should remain on. Which end shows head/tail should swap when direction changes. You should be able to show that with manual throttle control. Then it depends on the Block Signalling Shuttle unit, which I also don't own, and have only just now read the manual. It depends how the FL experimental feature actually behaves. It should work. ( The manual is slightly misleading in referring only to CV33... CV34 is also relevant once the direction is reverse rather than forwards). Not clear whether it turns the light off at each terminus stop, then on again before departing. That's whatever the behaviour may be within the Shuttle unit. I'd expect the shuttle to remember the setting between operating sessions (seems silly if it didn't).

CV33 = 9 That's outputs Front Light (1) and Aux2 (8) 1+8 =9 CV34 = 6 That's output RearLight(2) and Aux 1 (4) 2+4=6 So, the F0 key gives you directional headlights and directional tail lights. Putting tail lights on F2 seems to be a "train stopped in sidings" indicator, where its often the case to put red at both ends. So, intended use would be "F0 to off, F2 to on, loco parked up not running". CV113=0 means that there is nothing set as directional in forwards direction on the outputs (so F2 will be non=directional). So, from here, you could add the interior lights (Aux4) so the head,tail and interior operate on F0 key: F0 key forwards: CV33 is currently 9. 9+32, and CV33 = 41 (1 + 8 + 32 ) F0 key reverse: CV34 is currently 6. 6+32, and CV33 = 38 (2 +4 + 32) Not changed the F2 or F4 keys, but if they're not operated (set to off), the lights stay will follow the F0 key. I can't see a setting in the Uhlenbrock manual which is "lights on regardless of what you do". There is a setting for "lights on when moving", but it would mean the lights go out when the tram comes to a stop. So, that means its going to be easier to change the shuttle control device to have lights-on (F0) as part of its operation (which was suggested as possible earlier) ESU decoder, don't know what's happening if the tram wouldn't move. The lighting settings in an ESU are totally different, and bear no resemblance to the NMRA conventions on function mapping. - Nigel

Seems like a lot of effort (if not overly technical) or a lot of expense. And potentially both if not technical. To achieve a lot of complexity with little value add. Not sensible for a handful of turnouts, unless you need the DCC for something else as well. Might be easier to re-think how things are controlled. If its not simple to bring the indicators back from the servo mechanisms, then you may find it quicker/cheaper to re-think how you control things. For example, one MegaPoints (series-1, not the new series-2 ) 4-way servo board replaces ESU Switch Pilot Servo in controlling four servo motors. It takes input from an on-off toggle switch (or one contact on a rotary switch, which can give a pointer on a track diagram). Either switch clearly shows which way it is pointing, or if not happy with that, a double-pole switch can switch lights/LEDs as well as showing its position. The Megapoints 4-servo board would require five wires back to the control panel (one for each of the four servos, one common wire), and a power source in the layout.

That's still incomplete... Can I assume ? CV33=1, CV34 = 2 (defaults covering the outputs "Front Light" and "Rear Light" (which may be "Rear Headlight", depends how it is wired) ) We then have from your list above: CV35=0 (nothing controlled by F1 key CV36=12 12 = 4 + 8, so the outputs Aux1 and Aux2 might be Red lights at each end, controlled by the F2 key CV37 = 0 (nothing controlled by F2 key CV38=32 Aux4 is the interior light, controlled by F4 key. CV113=2 Aux 2 turned off in Forwards direction CV114=4 Aux 4 turned off in Reverse Direction (but we said Aux4 was the interior light...) CV186=47 47 = 32 + 8 + 4 + 2 + 1. So, Aux1,Aux2,Aux3, Aux4 and Aux6 operate as fade-in. CV187=8 Fade in time of 80 milisecs, which is pretty quick, so not likely to notice it. I think there's a mistake in the above, and CV114 should be CV114=1 (turn off Aux 1 in the reverse direction) Which implies the wiring is: Front Light output = Front Light Rear Light output = Rear headlight (but just maybe one of the tail reds?) Aux1 output = Red light at one end (probably rear) Aux 2 output = Red light at other end (probably front), but just maybe the other headlight Aux 3 output = not used Aux 4 output = Interior Then the lights are likely to be: F0 key (directional, turns on headlight at either end) F2 Key (directional, turns on tail-lamp at other end to headlamp) F4 Key (not directional, turns on interior lighting). If that's correct... then can look at further changes to move things to the keys you'd like them on. ( CV50 = 16 means "not using Susi data, Aux3 and Aux 4 are normal outputs". Susi data can be used for an external secondary sound decoder, such as those sold be Dietz. ) A decoder not working at all in a Next-18 socket suggests it wasn't "clicked home" quite properly. - Nigel

Its a bistable circuit, there will be thousands out there. I'm guessing (you need to check) that the button contacts on the SwitchPilot Servo connect to the device ground. So, you need a circuit which switches to ground. Here's one of thousands of circuit ideas https://www.circuitbasics.com/555-timer-basics-bistable-mode/ If you can make that work, then a very simple change on the output would allow one of two LEDs to show, eg: https://www.555-timer-circuits.com/using-the-output.html You'll need power, 5volts is fine, as is 12v for a 555 circuit. Its also a very simple circuit and simple program for an Arduino (and similar programmable devices) if that's something you've played with. There are eight inputs to scan (simple, just keep scanning them each time round the loop) and will need four outputs, with the LED pairs connected as per the second link above.

You'll need some more devices to "latch" the current on for the LEDs. Any good at basic electronics ? Its a very simple circuit.

I think you need to step back to basics. How is the loco wired up ? ie. which contact on the decoder socket goes to which light ? That's either manufacturer's documentation, or tracing wiring inside a loco, or careful and methodical setting a decoder to different values until things work and reporting what settings do work. Alternatively, what is the list of values Uhlenbrock told you to change. That will then allow someone to work out how Uhlenbrock think the model is wired up. Many manufacturers are using Next18 decoders to their full extent; there are up to eight independent lighting outputs on the decoders, rather than the two or three that the older 8-pin and 6-pin decoder sockets offered. An ESU decoder "not working" isn't helpful as a description. Doesn't provide motor power ? Or is the issue the lights not behaving on the default settings ? Which comes back to "how is the loco wired up".

This does seem to be making things determinedly difficult. TWG points out that the automatic controller (SDCC1) can be programmed to turn on certain functions. Has that been tried ? Does it work, or at least partially work (ie. some of the lights come on ?) .

If you've got a lot of locos, you either had deep pockets, or the person you inherited them from had deep pockets..... Most people have far too many locos. One regularly hears of people with 50 or 100 locos. How many of them actually get run ? How often ? There's nothing wrong with a hobby of "collecting", but don't use the shelf-collection to put down someone else' interest in running.

Yes, some people resort to disabling it (bit of paper inside blocking the button making a connection on the PCB), or building a little wall around it (couple of layers of thick plasticard) so the button can't be used or not used by mistake. The Momentum button reprograms CV3 and CV4 to new values. There isn't a "go back to what they were" capability, except for a decoder reset (so you can get back, but its a bit drastic, back to the settings when you got it, including address and any other changes). Sound decoders can have CV3 and CV4 set to values by the sound creator to allow sounds to play out correctly. So, changing them can cause sounds to not play correctly.

What's the minimum duty cycle of the PWM controller ? Some of those on sale on Ebay/Amazon/etc have a lowest cycle which averages out at about 1.5volts, others will go all the way down to zero. You can reduce the 1.5v ones with a couple of ordinary rectifier diodes in series with one of the output wires (before the direction switch), the diodes will drop about 0.7volts each.

You need to use the Recall Stack in the PowerCab. That allows you to resume control of an existing locomotive. If you select a loco manually, then the PowerCab assumes it should be controlled with all functions initially to off. Whether this behaviour is sensible or not is another question, but its what they do.

Duette's are fine for Common Return wiring. You can select a different terminal for each controller as the common. And thus get your required control behaviour. There are a lot of reasons to consider not using antique electrical appliances such as Duette's, but that's a different matter.

I think its possible - in the advanced function mapping. I could only find a German language manual for the decoder, and I'm not proposing to work out all the CV's necessary to do it. The advanced function mapping appears to have the notion of "loco moving" and "loco stationary" (could set both) to control any function output. Therefore I expect it is possible.

Are the back-to-back dimensions of the loco correct ? This is crucial !!

I think you are misunderstanding the manual. CV8 isn't "set" as such. CV8 is a mechanism for changing some internal decoder settings (pseudo-programming as Zimo call it). So, an instruction of CV8=4 (or CV8=3) changes the output of FO3 and FO4. In dependently an instruction of CV8=6 (or CV8=5) changes FO5 and FO6. You can set both pairs of outputs as "normal" or as "logic" or whatever combination you require. (And if you attempt to read CV8, it will always return a value of 145, which is Zimo's manufacturer ID). Zimo manual page 27 for more details.

The things I've made have all been "keep it really simple". So, there isn't an on-off switch, instead the battery connector is easily accessible, and I just disconnect the battery. With battery disconnected its possible to attach the charger to the battery. I could add an on-off switch, but don't find it needed. I doubt that 4mm wagons need more than a single axle drive. Gearmotors with a final bevel drive are more power-efficient than worm drives, so everything else being equal, the battery lasts longer.

You need to buy some stuff and start experimenting. Yes, motorising the wagons seems sensible. Unless you fit something to indicate run time of each wagon, you notice its going to need charging when its not as quick moving as normal - ie. battery starting to die. Typically you'll recharge a single cell battery in under an hour, so you won't need lots of spare wagons, or you arrange the batteries to be easy to swap out of a wagon. I'd expect a single Lipo cell would give you around 30mins to 60mins running of wagons (actually moving), assuming your drive is reasonably efficient and low friction. That should give you a day's exhibition running from the wagons in practise, as most of the time they'll be stationary. Micron Radio Control are one retailer(*) of stuff you need for the radio side (electronic receivers, transmitters, model batteries and suitable charging circuits). If you explain what you're trying to do, I expect they'd give you a recommended set of starting devices to work from. Yes, you can run 5 (or more) wagons independently. Motors will be "how long is your string"; you need things which are geared down to the speed you want the wagons to move - many Radio Controlled toy cars are going to be too fast unless you change the gearing. There are suppliers of motors/gearboxes for radio controlled HO road vehicles which run at sensible speeds, but many of those are in places like Germany, and you've got Brexit hassles to sort out imports. (I've used such things for slow speed controlled model vehicles in 4mm and 2mm, they can work well). (* I've no connection, other than buying a few things from them over the years ).

Just use the same wires with your DCC controller. That should show up any issues. ( Most decoders should support DC running, there are a handful that don't. But its an end-user setting in CV29, so may have been turned off. And they require a clean DC signal, some DC controllers are extremely noisy. ).

How long is your bit of string ? Out of the box, the N gauge Electrofrog switches the frog polarity using the blades. There is no wire to attach, no links to add/remove. This is different to the OO version. Some people report that the contact from blade to fixed rail isn't reliable. (There is a correlation with how point motors are installed, painting track, ballast, and ballast glue, but not always the case). So, they choose to add a wire to the frog, which could be at the frog, or one of the rails away from the frog (ie. next bit of track). Such a wire needs switching polarity, and the switch needs to happen at the same time as the blades moving (otherwise the blades might move, but the switch follows later and that's a short-circuit). Devices like Frog-Juicers can achieve this switching at the same time as the blades move. A smaller group of people go further, and modify the turnout so it has the gaps like the OO version, and electrically the same as the OO version. This is moderately drastic. The Unifrog is a different arrangement. That has a wire attached to the frog, and the wire needs switching (Frog Juicer will do this, or a switch associated with turnout motor). Without using the wire, the Unifrog becomes an "insulfrog". - Nigel

JMRI support is on the group "jmriusers" on groups.io Report the issue there, and follow advice given on checking things. There are many possible reasons for the observed behaviour. "bug" is only one of them. Reports here don't end up at JMRI development. - Nigel