RfDforever

'Network West Midlands' which seems to perform the same role as the former PTE, offers a "Day Tripper" ticket for £6.60, valid after 9.30 and, obviously, for one day. It is valid on buses, the tram, and, relevantly, trains. It's not clear whether the area covered includes Coventry or other places that were in the old WMPTE area but it certainly allows travel by train from Wolverhampton to Birmingham International. The website illustrates the various rover ticket options with a photograph of a passenger in the first class of a Pendolino and offers 'upgrades' to first class. It's been mentioned that XC trains are very crowded through the West Midlands and the availability of this ticket suggests one reason. Bearing in mind that the ticket income has to be shared around the bus and tram operators as well as the four train companies involved, it would be interesting to know what income the last-named receive.

The new TOC is named "West Midlands Trains" but the plan is to run it as two units, one called "West Coast" and one, confusingly in my opinion, "West Midlands". The latter will, it seems, have input from W. Midlands councils, but the former obviously not. Eventually, they will become separate TOCs, it seems - or the West Coast one might be merged with the inter city franchise of the same name. I am sure everyone knows this, but... One would perhaps expect the two business units to have different liveries, and, as the insipid livery mentioned in the OP was "inspired" by West Midlands council I am intrigued. Will a 350/1 or /3 used on the Northampton-Milton Keynes - London line be repainted from LM livery into WM Council livery, then again into West Coast livery, before receiving a third restyle when it moves to another TOC when the 225 (or 265 depending on quote) new coaches arrive? Or is there another, so far unannounced, livery for the Northampton line? Whatever one's views on train liveries, may I express the opinion that the present LM livery of glossy black for platform lamp-posts, seats and other furniture may not be the best choice? Certainly in Northampton it gets dark and even rains and it's surprising that there has been no objection from disabled groups about the visibility of these obstructions in those conditions.

XC are seen by some as "the ORCATS raiding TOC" - a fair bit of the point-to-point passenger flows are shared with other TOCs and therefore XC receive a share of revenue between those points based solely on service timings. Perhaps someone with a more up-to-date knowledge of ORCATS than me can explain how, or if, revenue sharing reflects the ability of services to actually convey the passenger numbers and thereby revenue allocated. A cynic might see that there is no incentive in providing longer trains because the revenue allocation would be the same. XC has no booking offices or stations, as far as I know. There's probably a technical description for this sort of business model, although the cynic (again) might think of a quite scurrilous one...

Oops sorry - had in my mind that Lime St was closing and assumed it was just for the Bank Holiday. My belief was wrong! Another thought about engineering work on the Railway; the media (including the BBC today) described the planned and advertised work this weekend as 'Disruption to passengers' Work is carried out continuously day and night during the closure. If the work planned for a Bank Holiday lingers on for a couple of hours extra it's the end of the world. - top news on the BBC, interviews with people whose world has ended, etc. I sometimes drive from Northampton to somewhere inaccessible by rail and bus near Coventry. Since 2011 there has been a 50mph speed restriction, narrow lanes and no hard shoulder, from M1 J16 through Catthorpe interchange to the M6 - a distance of about 20 miles. Rarely, at the times I travel, have I seen anyone at work. Indeed, for several months, the only change visible was the erection of signs that said "My Dad Works Here" (Daddy, what did you do today? Son, I spent the day putting up signs saying 'I work here' Anything else, dad? er - no) Strangely, the media has never, ever mentioned this.

I understand that Lime St is closed and services are starting from Parkway. However, today (Sat) half the VWC Manchester southbound trains are running via Birmingham and calling at New St. Normally, when these trains are diverted via the WM they don't call at Birmingham or Coventry to avoid abstraction from XC. I believe the intention is that you either change at New St and walk to Moor St and catch Chiltern to London; or change at Coventry onto XC to Leamington and then Chiltern. Plenty of Chiltern staff about at Moor St to help and, I think, more loco hauled trains than usual. The Virgin map for this weekend shows this route, A lot of people trudging through the tunnel between New St and Moor St, too. Also provides an opportunity to ride over Norton Bridge flyover on a Pendolino. A rare treat.....

I'm sorry that the points I tried to make were not understood. Perhaps I tried too hard for brevity. My understanding is that VWC is now a management contract, with almost all income passing to the Treasury. As the original franchise paid a premium, I assume that it's a positive, and probably quite large, amount. I thought I made this clear in the my OP; I never expressed nor implied an opinion about Virgin management, who are clearly unaffected by revenue abstraction. The step from my statements to me having the opinion about Virgin described is a non-sequitur. My point about the high level of LM subsidy was not that it was subsidised for commuter services (I did know!) but its scale; to be second it would certainly beat 2 of the 3 former NSE - South companies (now SW, Southern and SE) and, if Northern is the highest subsidised (my guess) then it gets more than all 3. Compare the intensity of LM Euston services with those 3... The DfT specified the TV services but not pricing. I obviously have no idea how the DfT mind works, but I would suggest that it is primarily to provide a service to Euston for the small towns mentioned, and also to provide them with services to the slightly larger towns of Stafford, Nuneaton and Rugby. Here are some more facts in support of my original statement; looking on NRES for Wednesday 20th September, here are some fares available from LM, on more than one train, during the daytime; Stafford - £8, Nuneaton £6, Rugby £6. These are obviously stations where a competitive Virgin service is available and of course they were not in the old NSE commuterland. From a very large town that IS in the old NSE area, Northampton, the fare under similar circumstances is ..... £7.50. Other non regulated fares are in proportion to the above. If the subsidy is intended for commuting it seems strange that a commuter station has a fare per mile up to double that of ones further out. The only possibility I can think of is predatory pricing against Virgin, but would be interested by other suggestions. Bear in mind that, from casual observation, many of the TV services seem to be full and standing. With regard to the growth in population of the small towns down the Trent Valley it may be also of interest that the most rapidly expanding town in England (from quite a high base) at the moment is Corby. By comparison, the TV towns do rather well with their train services! I intended my OP to be composed of facts and a rhetoric question and, re-reading it, I am still surprised that so much opinion has been inferred. My brevity means that every word (almost!) is important to the understanding of my logical argument. I welcome being told of factual errors - for instance, I am not sure that VWC is a management contract - but perhaps not some of the other comments.

Consultation meetings were held at many stations In connection with this franchise renewal and the result was a document entitled "West Midlands rail Franchise stakeholder briefing document 2016", easily found and downloaded on the web. This included the specification for the services which are the subject of this thread, and it was clear that there would be a Euston - Crewe service as well as one from Birmingham via Stoke. West Midlands Trains Ltd have tendered to operate in accordance with this specification; clearly, therefore, if the service has been "ruined" the franchisee is clearly not to blame. In other documents on-line relating to the present incumbent, DfT states that the London Midland franchise receives the second largest subsidy of all TOCs. Bearing in mind that Virgin West Coast presumably make a positive contribution to the Treasury (though the details of this franchise is, to me at least, opaque) it may appear strange that the former competes with the latter on price on the Crewe- Euston corridor - to spell it out, the taxpayer is subsidising LM to compete with Virgin, thereby possibly reducing the profitability , and therefore contribution to the taxpayer, of the latter. Competition between LM and Virgin seems to result in LM Trent Valley services rarely being cancelled due to LM's persistent driver shortages. Cancellation levels seem to be much higher on the Northampton services, where Virgin competition is limited to one early morning Euston service and two late night set down services from Birmingham.