Harlequin

February 28

Here's a rubbish photo of an All third in "Twin cities" livery that arrived today:

It's a lovely solid model, quite hefty but not "heavy" heavy.

The brake rodding is very clever. It appears to be connected from the levers at the vac cylinders all the way to both the near and the far brake "coat hanger" things (do they have a proper name?) as per the prototype. But in fact the brake rod that's fixed to the underframe threads into a little hole on the bogie and projects through so that it can slide in and out as the bogie rotates. Then another bit of rodding fixed to the bogie continues on along the same line.

The internal lighting is good in the sense that it's bright enough to show the interior detailing and there's not a sign of any flicker but on the minus side it's too bright to be realistic of course, it's too "cool" coloured and it highlights all the transparent plastic edges around the glazing.

My intention was to use it as a trailer for my SRM in similar livery. Hmmm, maybe I chose the wrong diagram...?

And there's the bolection question...

February 28

This thread has become schizophrenic, dividing between those answering the Topic title question and those answering the more recent add-on question.

February 28

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

Thats good to know, thanks, but the myriad of options available on ebay seem to be focussed on RGB lighting, with white options limited. I can see some which offer RGB+WW, or RGB+CW, but none that seem to offer both.

Like Andy says, search for "CCT", "Dual white" or "Tuneable white". They all mean the same thing.

Also, make sure you get something that's bright enough. Lots of LED tapes are just for accent lighting but you need to look for phrases like "Room lighting" or "Task lighting".

February 28

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

I'm looking at getting some LED strip lights for my new layout, and I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations? I had used them before on my other layout, but cant remember where I got them from. I also need a better set - ideally 2 strips running off one power supply (I'd prefer mains powered), with one control for both strips.

Is a simple RGB set enough, or does it need to be more sophisticated to get a good "daylight" look to the lighting?

Unless you need to create sunrise and sunset effects then you probably don't need an RGB set. RGB sets don't offer much control over the quality of the mixed white light they produce, either.

I suggest you need a combination of Cool White and Warm White. You can get tapes that combine both and allow you to mix them with very fine control if you have a suitable controller. Or just buy separate Warm and Cool white sets.

Cool White is like summer midday sunlight and Warm White is like morning/evening light. The exact combination you use is a matter of taste but most people I've seen use either 2 Warms to 1 Cool or vice-versa.

February 28

1 hour ago, halsey said:

Thanks to all for your input - spend is getting too high so I'm going to rethink my needs - my railway is only a winter hobby so it can wait..............

Thanks again.

J

Instead of a single handset with two knobs, what about two handsets each with a single knob?

That might be a cheaper solution, with more options for handsets and command centres.

February 27

9 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

I’ve finally got my SRM after retrieving it from parcel purgatory. What an absolutely beautiful model, completely stunning. However, mine is unfortunately a lumpy runner. It seems to be when the left hand cylinder is all the way rearward and starting to move forwards there’s a slight binding. The motor powers through it, but there’s a noticeable jump when it does. Happens both in forward and reverse. I don’t have time right now to trawl back through a few dozen pages, but has anyone else had similar? Is there a simple/easy way to fettle it rather than return to Kernow?

Yes, I have one that lurches through a stiffness in the motion. It used to run basically smoothly but was sent back to Kernow for a slightly different problem and came back with the stiffness.

Check that your valve stems and stem guides are horizontal and fixed properly. They seem to become bent upwards quite commonly and that means that the motion is not moving as intended, which might be causing your problem.

I haven't yet diagnosed my lurcher. I tried lubrication and a bit more running in but it still does it.

February 26

6 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

Bear in mind that on the doors, the window frames are part of the transparent plastic of the windows and have not been painted/printed.

Fair point, thanks.

The porthole windows on the new Dapol Moguls use the same technique and it doesn't really work very well, IMHO, because you can see the back of the transparent plastic behind the painted areas. It looks very odd from some angles.

February 26

The prismatic effect of the edges of all those small windows in the B-Sets is very visible.

February 26

Sorry Alex, I read through the D & H manual but I can see now that you have extra information on your website that would have been helpful.

I didn't realise it was there and it might be a good idea to refer to it in the covering material you send out with the decoder.

To be clear, I have no problem the sound project itself. The sounds are more realistic than others I have used and the dynamics of how they are applied during driving is very natural.

I think it's a bit odd that CV353 is defined as "Chuffs at Speed Step 1" and yet with the default speed curve you can't actually hear any chuffs at step 1. That's a D & H problem.

I will try again to get good chuff sync when VHigh is set to a lower value and will report back.

February 25

My decoder is installed in a batch 1 Dapol Mogul, which has very high gearing so the default values in the Manor project don't apply.

I have managed to get a reasonable sync while CV5 VHigh is set to the default 92. I would like to lower it because of the high gearing of the loco but when I did that things seemed to be less predictable, as described above. I need to go back and re-test that.

The speed curve as set by CV48 is the cause of the lack of chuffs when accelerating up to low speed settings and of the "free-wheeling" chuffs after decelerating down to low speed settings. The flat start to the curve seems to fail to trigger the chuff counter. Seems like a bug to me.

By setting a linear curve (CV48=0) I was able to set up a decent chuff sync but I have subsequently reset the speed to have a shallower curve to get more natural starts. Chuffs don't start below 2 but when driving for real you quickly pass through that zone and don't notice. With the revised speed curve the sync remains the same as with the linear curve - I half expected it to go out of whack.

The Acceleration and Deceleration rates can also be changed without affecting chuff sync, thank goodness.

So I have something that works OK for now but the loco is way too fast. That's the fault of the loco but I hope I'll be able to adjust the decoder to compensate for it and setup a decent chuff sync.

February 25

5 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

If sound decoders don't come with a 'resume sound on last output' in event of brief power interruption, then I suppose that is some justification. But the 'why not' is masking of a problem.

Yep, good point.

February 25

5 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Phil, as far as I can see it only picks up from the two driving wheels, with therefor an incredibly short wheelbase. But maybe my eyes are deceiving me.

The pickups in the trailing bogie are in the axle bearings.

February 25

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

There does seem to be an increasing obsession amongst DCC users to add stay-alives to anything and everything.

If track is laid with care and pick-ups are adjusted and maintained, there should be no need for auxiliary power.

After all, we DC users manage without them.

CJI.

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I think DCC sound users probably wish to hedge their bets. Often, if a decoder loses power momentarily, the sound sequence resets to the start, rather spoiling the illusion.

Yep, not really needed for the SRM because of its multiple pickups and long wheelbase. You'd be really unlucky to completely lose power with these if your track is up to any decent standard.

On the other hand, it's so easy to add to the SRM because there's loads of space right next to the decoder. So if you've got the parts and 5 minutes to spare, why not?

February 25

After another session of fiddling at speed step 2/128 with a linear speed curve, I do at least get chuffs that seem to be related to loco speed.

Having set CV353 to a reasonable sync at speed step 2 I then speed up the loco and set CV354 to get good sync at the faster speed. But that then throws out the sync at low speed, etc., in an endless spiral of doom.

Man, this is frustrating!

At the moment I don't think it's actually possible to get a decent chuff sync across a range of speeds with this decoder.

February 25

I have a Doehler & Haass SD18A with a steam sound project and I'm trying to sync the chuff rate to the host loco but it has defeated me so far.

The D&H manual says that CV353 sets the chuff rate at speed step 1 and then CV354 adjusts it for higher speeds but the decoder behaviour at speed step 1 is not consistent:

If I start the loco from 0 and go up one step (1 of 128) it makes no chuff sounds at all, no matter how many wheel revolutions I wait.
If I accelerate up to a higher speed and then come down to speed step 1, the coasting sound stops responding to loco speed and just runs at it's own independent rate.

So it seems to be impossible to sync chuffs at speed step 1...?

I'm trying to set CV353 first and then adjust CV354 because that is the strong suggested method from the descriptions of the two CVs and empirically trying any other

It's possible that some other threshold setting in the decoder is preventing the chuff rate from responding to loco speed at low speed inputs but I can't immediately see what.

It's also possible, I suppose, that by "Speed step 1" they mean 1/28 rather than 1/128...? That's not clear but worth a try.

Does anyone have experience of these decoders and setting the chuff rate?

Update: While writing this, I've realised that I should probably try setting VHigh to max and setting a linear speed response.

February 24

I'm not sure photos of the sites with their trees today will be much help in identifying the trees that would have been in the same locations 100 years ago. Within that period Dutch Elm disease drastically changed the landscape, of course.

("Elm Road" is a strong hint as to the trees found at that location.)

In the fourth colour photo in the first post, the trees in question have tree guards around the bases of their trunks so we know those have been intentionally planted and could come from anywhere.

Can you post some photos of the actual trees from the period in question (or similar)? Or point us to such photos in @phil_sutters link?

February 23

1 minute ago, gwrrob said:

I hope all Plymouth residents that follow this thread like @Siberian Snooper stay safe and away from the Torpoint ferry terminal this evening.

The bomb is en-route as I type, apparently.

February 23

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxg3fs3YcK4rJSvIFmkt8aS2F7x5f60G6g?si=VowAIZiRVH0_mf5s

February 22

32 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I am also going to replace the Mogul's plastic coal load with a sheet of lead covered in the real stuff (happily the plastic coal is not glued in - a nice touch from Dapol). Since I don't have a turntable at Helston I need my tenders to run well when being propelled backwards over the points and some weight always helps - it should also help keep good electric contact on the tender wheels to the track.

The tender in the batch1 moguls had a big diecast block in them with a well to hold a 40*20mm speaker so I'm a bit surprised you think it needs extra weight.

Is there a speaker in the tender? I hope so! If so, you could make sure the diaphragm is facing upwards and do the mesh coal load thing.

February 22

4 hours ago, riddler said:

How about this plan?

That looks very rational. If you're happy with 2/3rd scenic 1/3rd fiddle yard around the room then it makes a lot of sense because you can see everywhere, reach everywhere and easily change things by hand in the FY. It also means that you don't need automation right from the word go - you can run the layout manually at first and get automation working in stages.

February 22

9 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

But that Moor St, it looks a pretty good layout. You have even liked it!

I dont know if its possible, but the objection to the return loop might be overcome if the circular running lines were inside the fiddle yard/return loop, so that the return loop itself could be 'hidden' in one corner, possibly with a removable scenery element on top of it. I haven't checked at all to see if its feasible.

Yes, I like both Moor Street and Cheltenham St James. Just pointing out that if the goal is some roundy-round running with some shunting a through station is in many ways a better fit.

N gauge makes a return loop much easier to do space-wise than OO but it's just a bit awkward to fit into the scenic parts of a plan. However, if it's in the off-scene area then it's much easier.

February 22

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

I am confused - I thought with two extra cylinders they would be timed to exhaust in between the other two and, all being double acting, I expected a two cylinder engine to give four beats per revolution and a four cylinder engine to give eight? Does this mean that the timing is set up so that on four cylinders the pistons are in pairs like on a four cylinder four-stroke petrol engine? Clearly I have much to learn!

On the face of it you'd think 8 thrusts per revolution would make for a smoother ride - although maybe not because it would mean thrusts were not equalised across the frame.

I think the practical problem is that the valve timing events offset at 1/8ths would require twice as many return cranks and possibly some separate outside valve gear if rocker arms from the inside were too complicated to set up.

Remember that on the GWR four cylinder locos the outside cylinder valves are worked by rocker arms from the inside so their timing is simply the inverse of one of the inside valves.

February 22

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

I have now changed CV 267 from its value of 29 to 58 to slow down my chuff rate - it seemed to be set for a four cylinder engine rather two. Keith at Dapol has helpfully supplied some notes on the various CV settings in their sound project - I think they should really send these out with the loco itrself.

Four cylinder and two cylinder GWR locos have the same number of chuffs per revolution.

Sound projects are often out of sync at first. They can't account for all the loco/gearing combinations they will be used with and in this case it may have been set up for the old batch 1 Moguls where the gear ratio was different.

(Sometimes sound project designers simply don't understand the chuffs per revolution of the prototype.)

February 22

46 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Maybe its me - I have checked with Dapol tech support and they confirm its meant to be there - its just on the overrun when the chuffing dies back I find it rather intrusive. I am hoping there is a CV setting that will allow me to turn that bit of the sound down a tad.

Andy

All GWR engines do it, at least all those with crosshead driven vaccuum pumps. It's a pressure relief valve and should "spit" rather than knock or tap. When it's very loud @The Stationmaster will tell you that it needs some attention. 😉

You can hear it on this video on various engines including 5322.

Edit: There should be two "spits" per wheel revolution and your chuff sync is way out - far too may chuffs (and spits) per revolution.

February 22

If you want a roundy round then a through station is easier to accommodate than a terminus. It means there's much less need for a return loop, which is space-consuming and usually has to be non-scenic.

A through station can still have terminal bays and a goods yard that has to be shunted in exactly the same way.

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