SD85

On the subject of coaches, am I right in thinking that no one makes any kit or RTR model of an LSWR Ironclad at present? I would like to model the Guildford breakdown train as it was in the 60s and while Bachmann do the crane and the brake van is sourceable via kit/RTR, the mess coach for that era seems to have been a converted Ironclad and I'm beginning to think it may require scratchbuilding.

Can I put in a shout out for a couple that turned up in the late 90s - Swan Street (I think that was the name?) which was a 60s Liverpool layout with a shunting yard and a low level cutting, and Albion Street (I believe the builder posts on these forums). Both very atmospheric. North Foreland (1996) was another good one too, and also from that year were Highgrove (effective 2mm scale branch line) and Minima Bay (which was made by the guy who produced College Models kits).

Not retooling the 8F is a huge open goal missed TBH.

Can attest to the 'provenance' of such cameras. One of the few wartime stories my grandfather passed on concerned his time in Berlin just after Germany had surrendered (he was ground radar operator on bomber squadrons during the war and the Allies presumably required as many logistics people as possible to fly stuff in and out of the newly occupied city). Looting by the Allied forces was something that went on. My grandfather distinctly recollected a camera shop being ransacked; he personally felt sorry for the owners and only took a couple of cheap roll film cameras (presumably it would possibly have been regarded as strange amongst his colleagues not to take a souvenir) but he did apparently say that other folk were just walking in and helping themselves to the premium Leica cameras on the shelves.

I've just remembered another couple.... Network SouthEast, Central division, circa 1993-1997. My formative years. This is why I keep urging manufacturers to make a 4-CIG (you cannot model the Brighton line between 1965 and 2005 without them). Trains in toothpaste livery and underframes and bogies caked with brake dust and track dirt in general. Would probably model Lewes station, with the big island platform and tunnel entrance to the fiddle yard for the 'London' direction. Exeter Central, about 1960, when the Z Class tanks were employed on banking duties. This is inspired by Ken Webb's 00 layout of the station which appeared in RM in 1997. Full scale model of the station and the gradient up from St Davids, perhaps in between the station and the eastern fiddle yard a model of Exmouth Junction shed could be put in too. Trains arriving, being banked up the gradient. ACE workings joining one way and broken down into portions the other. Ballast workings from Meldon, local freight trips, maybe some WR diversions? Not really doable in 4mm without a very long room but should Hornby put out some Bulleid locos and stock in TT:120 then this might become an option.

These are my most often dreamt up large ideas that would require time, space and resources (and extra people to help build and operate): 1) A 4mm/ft model of the Settle-Carlisle Garsdale - Kirkby Stephen section, (i.e. the bit passing through Mallerstang), plus the Tebay - Stainmore Summit section of the NER line that also passed through the area. Oh, and also all the countryside around the railways would be modelled as well. This would be a super-Pendon style set up requiring an aircraft hanger to put it all in. 2) Similar to the above, a model of the Stainmore line based on the possibility that the junction for the Penrith branch had been located at Maiden Castle near the summit and not down in the valley at Kirkby Stephen East (apparently this was considered at one point). Island junction platform with screen on the branch side, building in style of KSE. Long coke and iron ore trains running across the landscape, doubleheaded holiday excursions to Blackpool from the NE, some diverted traffic (I'd also strengthen the Bouch lattice viaducts a little in this alternative scenario to take bigger engines), some holding sidings at the station with interesting traffic in them, Penrith branch workings, etc. Name of the layout 'South Stainmore Junction' and for it to be just that little bit more impressive, I'd do it in S scale (so everything scratchbuilt, basically). 3) Branksome shed (redux). This is based on a long held but never realised plan by the LSWR/SR that would have relocated Bournemouth engine shed to the Branksome triangle. In my mind this would be the perfect excuse to merge the SR and SDJR sheds at Bournemouth and Branksome and have a combined super shed, something akin to a southern equivalent of Bath Green Park but quite a bit bigger. Bulleid Pacifics, Arthurs, Schools and Nelsons alongside 7Fs, 2Ps, 4Fs and 9Fs. Perhaps opt for a Horsham/Guildford style roundhouse set up? 4mm scale would suit this idea but to get all the details, textures etc. then 7mm scale is the way to go. 4) And related to the above, the classic 'S&D on a summer Saturday' layout. Not that complex, just a circuit on which to run endless doubleheaded expresses and long freights. Iain Rice sketched out a plan for modelling Binegar in one of his books which was appealing. 5) Something different here, but an extensive home/garden based railway based around the principles of operating, like the Sherwood Section. Just fill the space with stations, main lines, branch lines, sidings, etc., and run it all to full timetable and bell codes. I'm actually a member of a club which operates such a system so this dream is at least somewhat realised. 6) Modern image - I'm not into modelling the modern scene much, but I've always thought Reading (as it is now post rebuild) would be a seriously impressive layout to pull off and pretty interesting operationally. Done in N scale it would really work IMO. 7) Dovey Junction - Quite a simple layout operationally but I'd want a large area to capture the open feeling and space of the prototype. 8) The Brighton Line, in another time and place - This is possibly the most full on 'alternate reality' one. The LBSCR was convinced of the merits of their overhead electrification system to start planning to wire down to the coast by 1920, but WW1 intervened. In an alternate timeline, they actually did it, and built main line locos/units to work it as well. This would be a model based in either the Brighton or Croydon areas featuring real and imagined Brighton electric stock but also with plenty of the steam motive power retained to work to places like Eastbourne, Horsham etc., as well as to haul freight. Could be done in 4mm, but in 7mm scale this would be a really impressive project, though it would require large amounts of scratchbuilding. It would be interesting to combine this idea with the 'Sherwood Section' approach outlined above and make a whole system based on the 'alternative' LBSCR, which could also provide excuses for through passenger and freight workings from the LSWR and SECR, plus the LNWR as well.

Didn't Iain Rice plan something like this in one of his books - I think it was the Urban Layout Designs one.

I'd just wire up Exeter to Basingstoke and then have a fleet of dual voltage units that switch over at the Basingstoke stop.

I voted for an LSWR Ironclad coach because there are currently no kits available for one at present AFAIK.

Peco scenic backscene sheets are another one.

Yes, I suppose the engineers/company directors wouldn't have had much room for sentimentality in that regard. Though the LNER actually was more into preservation than most (didn't they preserve some older/legendary GWR locos when Swindon decided to scrap them or something?)

I understand your points but it really is hard to look at the rebuilding of the locomotive as a neutral event. Even if that wasn't the case - as you said, those involved were just trying to keep the railway going and introduce new motive power - and regardless of who chose the locomotive for rebuilding, it still comes across as if some sort of point was being made somewhere by choosing that specific engine.

Fair points. Wouldn't it have been easier to just try and fix the crank axle and axlebox issues rather than invest in full rebuilds though? I was sure it was once brought up in the P2 debate that the Scottish sheds/traffic department valued them in their original form as haulers and there was near mutiny when they were rebuilt. Can't recall the details though. One of the interesting what ifs of railway history is what Bulleid would have done with the P2s if he had stayed at the LNER and succeeded Gresley, given that the original design for the MNs was a 2-8-2 engine.

That's the thing with EMUs, yeah. I still think the Stadler FLIRT units were an odd choice, though. An Electrostar just seems a far more obvious gap in the market to aim for. I wonder if EMUs might be more viable in TT.

I must admit I probably rather got on the nerves of the people on the Dapol stand at Warley. Over the weekend I visited them several times and suggested producing a Z class, then a K class, then mentioned that if Hornby weren't going to bother retooling their 8F there was an obvious gap in the market for them. I also did my usual gentle prodding of trying to get them to consider producing Bulleid Pacifics in 7mm scale. I ended up buying a 7mm Terrier off their stand in the end because I felt like I should probably actually compensate them for having to listen to my suggestions for two days..........

I agree that a K class would be great. It would nicely dovetail with the Bachmann H1/H2 Atlantics and E4. There are two elephants in the room when it comes to Southern era models. The first is the lack of a U class which was a wide ranging mixed traffic locomotive and as I've said many times now the argument that it's "too similar to an N" doesn't wash anymore given that Hornby produced the 78xxx which is basically an Ivatt 2MT with minor detail differences. The other one is a 4-CIG or an Electrostar. It seems that every 60s EMU has been modelled but not the 4-CIG. The lack of any Electrostar model from any manufacturer in the last 15-20 years is TBH baffling. Either way, if you want to model the Brighton main line post 1965, it's pretty hard to do it. I do understand that EMUs cost a lot though which is probably a major factor.

A retooled rebuilt MN to complement the excellent original MN in the range would be most welcome. The current tooling is holding up OK but buying them new is a bit pointless since a lot of them turn up second hand for anything between 90-150 quid. And as pointed out, it surely would be tempting for another manufacturer to have a go if Hornby won't do it. The retooled 8F would be another obvious one for Hornby or any other manufacturer to do, especially as the model has not been in the catalogue for some years IIRC. I asked Hornby at the MK show in October if they would produce a Z class. No chance. I then asked practically every other manufacturer at Warley if they would produce a Z class. Nope. Looks like Golden Arrow or DMR are the only options then..........

I'm just waiting for Hornby to produce some Bulleid Pacifics in TT:120 so that a model of Exeter Central becomes possible.

I do agree though that Thompson would have had far less opprobrium from the railway enthusiast/historian community if he had chosen another engine than Great Northern to rebuild into his A1/1 prototype. I have listened to Simon's arguments as to why that particular locomotive was chosen to be rebuilt and am willing to consider them but at the end of the day it is very hard to consider its rebuilding as anything other than making a personal point as to who was now in charge of loco design. I also do not entirely understand why consideration wasn't given to putting the P2s onto Anglo-Scottish fast freight traffic instead of rebuilding them. They would have been pretty effective on the ECML in that capacity I'd have thought.

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The Kitmaster toolings that ended up with Dapol are still holding up pretty well for 60 year old mouldings. There's also the former Airfix wagons and scenic items/kits too. What about Superquick? Loco wise the main one that comes to mind is the Hornby Dean Single which is an early 60s Triang moulding IIRC.

Got back last night at about 11pm after a very good weekend. On Sunday the Super D harvest yielded another good result (up to 8 now) and I joined the Gauge 0 Guild. Was good to see RedgateModels and have a chat to him about his 2-10-4 9MT tank which he had brought along. Only regret was I was in buying mode and spent more time on the trade stands than by the layouts but I did give time to most of them. The 0 gauge layouts seemed to be the most impressive IMO, particularly Kensington Addison Road and Cobbold's Wharf (?). But Deadmans Lane also stood out, being a modern image layout which was genuinely enthralling to watch and well-operated. Also good to see Nigel Adams there with his layout as his books have proved a constant source of inspiration over the years. EDIT: I also managed to (probably) irritate every single manufacturer at the show by asking them if they could make a Z class.

Good first day today and looking forward to tomorrow. Nice to meet Not Jeremy, Phil and a few others from here. The Super D harvest continues. This time I found one for £70 on one of the secondhand stalls; I am now up to seven so far. Finding a Hornby rebuilt BOB for a good price was a bonus too since these locos never seem to turn up secondhand. I enjoyed the large 0 gauge Kensington Addison Road layout and also the one based on the quays at Ipswich.

Very high quality exhibition as always and thanks for putting it on. Favourite layouts were Copper Wort and Underpass.

Thanks. I will update you via PM in a day or so (provided someone else hasn't bought the loco already).