SD85

How much is the BoB going for? Thanks.

RIP. I only met Iain once, very briefly a few years ago, but felt privileged to have talked to him in person and thanked him for his contribution to the hobby. His books on layout design and improving RTR locos and stock are cornerstones of railway modelling literature and his influence on all areas of railway modelling general cannot be overstated. One of the giants of the hobby.

For those of you who have detailed their locomotives, may I ask what you use to represent the flexible covering that joined the cab roof to the tender front? Also how did you fix it in place? Thanks.

Got my copy of the book through the post yesterday so looking forward to reading through it for ideas. Thanks.

My thoughts too. I don't see why diesel and electric locomotives should be an issue. Nor do I see the issues in making locos to scale in TT (or H0 for that matter) where the cylinders and valve gear are below the splashers. As noted the SR USA tank loco (the prototype of which was constructed with the UK loading gauge in mind) has been done in H0 scale and that seemed to work fine. Also, DJH produced H0 scale kits for the WD 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 locomotives. Therefore it should be possible to do at least the BR Standard classes in TT and H0 scales. I accept that there may be issues on some older locomotives with splashers.

Thanks, will check those headboards out.

Thanks, will check those headboards out.

I'll repost an observation I made a while back as it's appropriate for the subject of this thread: I can't help feeling that just as the layout cliche of the 60s/70s/80s was the GWR branch line set in a 1930s summer, the current layout cliche at exhibitions is the diesel depot, sometimes improbably attached to a small urban terminus, with every class 66 livery variety on display and every single diesel idling on shed. TBH the last point is the most egregious. A lot of the time diesels parked up somewhere aren't idling but are either silent or making odd little clonks and drips and tapping noises from their engines, and this particular feature is not something DCC sound seems to replicate. I have to admit that I am still yet to be truly impressed with sound chips in locos in 4mm scale. In 7mm they sound more convincing due to larger speakers and a larger bodyshell to reverberate in; most 4mm ones just sound tinny, at least that's how I hear it. That said sound can work if it's subtly done. Graham Muspratt's Canute Road Quay uses an ambient background sound file (I think it's about an hour long, on a loop) of typical dockside railway sounds such as seagulls, ringing buffers, distant flange squeals and occasional chuffing. This doesn't necessarily synchronise with the movements of the stock on the layout as it's meant to represent what is going on offstage as well as on. Played at a gentle background volume the effect is quite persuasive IMO.

One of the things featured on the layout I intend to build (set mid/late 60s) will be a locomotive from a completely different region to the one the layout has set in working an LCBG/SLS special. This did happen a few times towards the end of steam and provided said locomotive only makes the odd appearance it should look realistic.

Pretty sure that was the case. Early mechanisms used the Fleischmann drive, but later ones were of lower quality. Regarding tender drives, I used not to understand the point of them, but recently got a Roco DB class 50 (made in the mid 90s I think) and saw how tender drive is done properly. Motor in the tender, powering the wheels there, and also driving the wheels of the loco via a driveshaft system (as opposed to Hornby and Airfix which just used the loco for pickup). I am fairly sure that this setup (at least to power the driving wheels) is also used over here in scratchbuilt models as well from time to time. The Roco model also has traction tyres aplenty. I must confess I am a little puzzled as to the British modelling scene's aversion to anything with traction tyres (at least in 4mm and above), when H0 scale modellers in Europe and America seem to never have an issue with them. I wonder why this is? Back to tender drive - I have an Airfix 4F and one of the things that surprised me when I bought it was how much it could haul given that it was tender drive. It's pretty noisy, but certainly can pull. It is also ironic that the tender drive Margate Hornby models were regarded as more towards the toy end of the scale than Airfix/Mainline/Replica/Bachmann but arguably (thanks to the tender drive) had a more realistic close coupling between locomotive and tender than any of their competitors at the time, thanks to an innovative sprung drawbar. Why Hornby could not have retained this feature when they switched to loco drive plus tender pickups models is a mystery, it probably wouldn't have been that difficult to update it.

Regarding tenders, I should add another useful fact for those modelling Southern steam in 1967. 34021 Dartmoor is recorded in most accounts (including Derry I think) as retaining a 5500 gallon tender until withdrawal in July that year. However numerous shots of the locomotive in 1967 show that it was running for some time before and up to withdrawal with a 4500 gallon one. Hope this is of use.

Could I just point out that not all European 0 gauge is correctly to scale. French 0 gauge is AFAIK the same as British 0 gauge (1:43.5 on 32mm track). Also, American 0 gauge is out of scale in the other direction (1:48 on 32mm track). German 0 gauge is correct. I personally don't really notice the discrepancy when it comes to 0 gauge, at least not in comparision to 00. To return to the topic in hand, however, I'm pretty enthusiastic about British outline TT120, and if they ever start producing Bulleid pacifics then a model of Exeter Central would become relatively feasible (compared to doing it in 00).

This took a lot of working out but the clue here is that the locomotive has a BR number plate but is still in GWR livery (look closely at the tank sides and one can make out the lettering). This would date the photograph to the early 1950s at the latest. During the early 1950s 1442 was based at Oxford, so I looked around the junctions in the area. The most likely candidate is the junction at Kennington just south of Oxford. The train has just left the main line to join the Oxford - Princes Risborough line and is about to pass over the Kennington bridge across the River Thames in the background. It can be seen that the bridge is of bowstring girder construction. Link to description of the bridge and picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennington_Railway_Bridge It will also be noted that the branch line the train is venturing onto is singling, and that the point where the single track begins is over a small culvert bridge. As this section of the Oxford - Princes Risborough line is still intact (it serves the Cowley works), it is possible on Google Maps to confirm that the point at which the line singles after the junction is located over a culvert bridge. In the left background can be seen (just above the railway) what looks to be a river which I think is the Hinksey Stream channel which branches off from the Thames at this point (again, Google Maps confirms this). Finally, overhead power lines can be seen in the background; and these correlate to the approximate positions of overhead power lines in the same area today. One thing that is odd is that in order to take the picture the photographer would have to have been standing on the main Oxford - Didcot line, part of which can be seen in the foreground.

I have wondered several times over the years if the best future for the Welsh Highland might be to electrify it. That would be a short term cost but over the long term would pay itself back in operational costs, efficiency etc. The Ffestiniog and the Welsh Highland are, for me, different experiences. I go to the FR because I want to be hauled by double Fairlies, and also because I like to get on and off at intermediate stations, walk between them, explore the local area etc. (I know that aspect isn't doable at present). The steam locomotives are pretty vital to the experience IMO. The WHR is something else, though. Yes I like being hauled by the Garratts (especially up the reverse curves from Beddgelert to Rhyd Ddu), but the main attraction is the line itself and the spectacular scenic journey. The area it goes through is even more remote than the one around the FR in some ways, and the stations are a bit too far apart to comfortably get off at one stop and walk down to the next one. So therefore when I do travel on the WHR, I do the entire round trip. It would also be something of a nod to the heritage of the line, as the PBSSR section was initially planned as an electric railway but never completed. The hydroelectric scheme which was to power the PBSSR was completed, however, and AFAIK is still operational. It would perhaps be theoretically possible to power the WHR from it.

I had thought about the CAF 195-197 units as being the next obvious step to make in terms of modern RTR. Would not be surprised to see these produced in the next year or two. I agree that a retooled 8F is the logical step for Hornby to take after the new toolings for the 9F and now the Black 5. A U Class would sell. I honestly don't think it's as much of a niche loco as some claim. The Bachmann N Class was wildly popular and sold well when it came out. The U Class covered a large area of the Southern system and is a versatile prototype which could run on a lot of different types of layouts. If Hornby think there's mileage in producing a BR 78xxx 2MT Class, it stands to reason that someone out there would realise that a U Class is viable. TBH I'm more surprised that someone like Rails or Kernow haven't commissioned one. I suppose one issue would be the tooling variations (some of the class - the ones rebuilt from River Class tanks - had larger splashers, others smaller splashers and higher running plates).

I don't quite understand how the WC/BoB models are more expensive than the City of London one despite being much older tooling. On a related note, are Hornby ever going to produce any more of the rebuilt Light Pacifics? I think the last time that model was in the catalogue was about five years ago, and they are very difficult to find second hand for anything less than £150. You very rarely find them on traders stalls at shows either.

Interesting choice to make the Stadler units but I can't understand the logic behind producing these but not the much more widely available Electrostars or Class 700s, both of which would have far more of a market you'd have thought. Unless this is a test of the water to see how many people will buy DMUs and EMUs.

A new issue of the Rebuilt Light Pacific would be welcome, since it wasn't in the catalogue last year. I do wonder if at some point the old LBSC brake van (one of the better Margate era wagons) might get retooled. Did bring this up to SK at a show a couple of years ago and he said it might be an option to think about (or words to that effect). Limited edition Dublo commemorative versions of the Castle and maybe the 8F might be a logical thing to do also. What is needed (but not guaranteed to be produced): SR U Class - the big missing item on the Southern RTR loco front. The reason given in the past that it's too close to an N Class to be worth producing doesn't wash any more I'd say, given that Hornby are already making the 78xxx (which is an Ivatt 2MT with minor detail tweaks). 4-CIG - practically every 1960s MK1 Southern region EMU has been produced apart from this one, logical next step. Electrostar variants - this is one of the most widely used types of train on the British network, you can make it in third rail or overhead pick up variants quite easily. Essential for pretty much any modern day layout set around London and the SE. There's also the diesel variants of the design that can be found in the West Midlands. Z Class 0-8-0 - Actually pretty niche, but I reckon this would sell quite decently among SR modellers. WD 2-10-0 - Would be a nice contrast to the Bachmann 2-8-0. LNWR George V - If you're going to capitalise on pre-Grouping era models as several manufacturers are doing recently, this would be an obvious place to start. GWR Saint Class - will a retool/new design finally be justified? Class 700 - these units are becoming more widespread and along with the Electrostars would be a popular choice. Locomotion - if you're going to produce Rocket and Lion then you might as well round things off. GWR Aberdare Class - perhaps a bit of niche choice again, but among GWR modellers this would sell pretty well.

Could you explain this in a little more detail if possible? I do sort of get what you're saying though.

This is definitely the logic behind the large amount of prototype diesels produced by Heljan/Bachmann/Kernow, and KTR's GT3 model and forthcoming Leader. One offs and prototypes have a uniqueness to them which compels a purchase. Same with the Heljan Garratt. That said, my point about the U class being the most obvious gap in the market still stands. They were widely used across the Southern network and most SR modellers would end up buying one.

All good points made above. I would be interested in seeing some sort of working auto coupler based on the Scharfenberg/Dellner variety.

Though the loco I'd like to see the most is a Z class tank. That said these were shunting yard locos primarily, so it's possibly something of a limited clientele that would buy them.

You forgot the U class, which is the glaring omission in the Southern scene. Why no manufacturer has done one yet is beyond me. You'd have thought that one of the small suppliers or shops would have commissioned one, but no. And the argument that it can't be produced because it's too similar to an N class to make it worthwhile doesn't wash any more I'd say, given that Hornby are doing a BR 78xxx, a loco which is basically the Ivatt 2MT tender engine with minor detail differences. If there's room in the market for a 78xxx and an Ivatt 2MT, then there's room for an N and a U class. The other major omission is a 4-CIG, practically all the Mk1 third rail EMUs have been done except for this one. Likewise the 375/377 Electrostar series, an obvious choice for a model given their profusion in the London/SE area. You need either to do a model of the Brighton main line in 4mm scale post 1960s. And why did a 466 Networker EMU get made as far back as the late 90s, yet no one has done the 4-car 465 variant?

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/steam-locomotives-on-the-mainline

Many thanks, will try to do that and see how it goes. Much appreciated.