Caley739
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Posts posted by Caley739
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On 09/03/2023 at 09:26, pH said:
In the late 1950s, when Polmadie still had Jubilees, they would use one on an early morning train to Gourock and it would then work back towards Glasgow on the daily pickup goods.Once the Jubilees were finally transferred to Corkerhill, Polmadie would use one of their Clans on that duty till all of them were withdrawn at the end of 1962.
In period 1960/61 I used to regularly observe the local pickup goods at Strathaven in Lanarkshire. Usual power was a Caledonian Jumbo 0-6-0, occasionally one of the larger Caley 0-6-0s, but one day a huge spindly monster turned up. With the aid of my railway library (Ian Allan ABC part 3) I indentified it as a Riddles WD 2-10-0. Only saw it once. My memory might be playing tricks but I think it had a nameplate "Vulcan".
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On 11/12/2022 at 15:56, pH said:
Stanier 5F 2-6-0 with taper boiler... Lobster
I've seen this in various 1930s issues of The Railway Observer, possibly very localised or even invented by a single correspondent. Don't think it every really caught on !
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Currently 4 listings on eBay for RCTS Locomotives of the Great Western Railway Part 3 Absorbed Engines 1854 - 1921.
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Manchester & Milford No. 6 Cater Idris became GWR 1306 withdrawn April 1919, Sharp Stewart 4128 of 1896.
Cylinders 17" x 22"
Driving Wheels 5' 2", Carrying Wheels 3' 6"
Boiler Pressure 140 lbs.
Grate 15.25 sq. ft.
Wheelbase 6' 6" + 8' 3" + 6' 6"
Dimensions said to be from Swindon diagram F per RCTS Locomotives of the Great Western Railway Part 3 Absorbed Engines 1854 - 1921, page C93.
regards
Tom Robertson
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Manchester & Milford No. 2 Plynlimmon became GWR 1304, withdrawn July 1916, Sharp Stewart 3710 of 1891.
Cylinders 17"x22"
Coupled Wheels 5' 6", Carrying Wheels 3' 6"
Boiler Pressure 140 lbs
Grate 12.88 sq. ft.
Wheelbase 6' 6" + 7' 6" + 6' 6"
Dimensions said to be from Swindon diagram E per RCTS The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway Part 3 Absorbed Engines, 1845-1921, page C93.
regards
Tom Robertson
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23 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:
I believe there was a class of Scottish shunting locos, called Yorkies
The Yorkie nickname referred to North British class M 4-4-2T, LNER class C15 passenger locos, because they were constructed by The Yorkshire Engine Company of Sheffield. This was a very unusual builder for a Scottish Railway Co and might actuallybe the only time it ocurred.
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LMS "Stove R" 6 wheel brake vans had corridor gangways.
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This was a high priority train. It ran with class 1 express lamps. The only other non passenger carrying train accorded this privilege was The West Coast Postal. It was authorised to convey a maximum of 20 loaded tanks which would be over 600 tons, although it usually ran with less thsn the max. The main reason for using a 6 wheel Stove R, apart from a comparitively smooth ride for the guard, was the Stove. Usually some tanks were marshalled in rear of the van to steady the ride. If for any reason a Stove R van was not available a standard BR 20T goods brake was used because of the all important stove. I don't think any of the LMS bogie passenger vans were equipped with a stove.
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My interpretation of the stock is 8 milk tanks, horsebox, non corridor 3rd, Stove R Brake. As already mentioned this was a long standing train in the timetable. From many other photos of the same train going back as far as LNWR days it seems to have also been used for any miscellaneous NPS vehicles which had accumulated at Carlisle. The passenger coach is likely to be empty stock, possibly for Wolverton Works.
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7 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:
Currently on Ebay, an image of 42765 at Farington Curve Jc. on a fish train ex Fleetwood in 196
These look like banana vans rather than fish vans
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16 hours ago, david.hill64 said:
A good friend of mine, and a railwayman to boot, will often over a pint regale me of trip he had in the early 60's from Euston to Glasgow on the relief Mid Day Scot, which ran 15 minutes ahead of the main service. Britannia from Euston to Crewe, Duchess from Crewe to Carlisle, the shock, horror, a black 5 from there to Central. He fully expected to be looped and have to take a banker for Beattock, but the driver was having none of it and assaulted the bank with gusto. Bob doesn't relate whether they were right time on arrival, but he does offer it as an example of what was just about possible with an engine in good condition and a willing crew.
If this tale is true your friend must have been a passenger. This train would have had 3 different crews between Euston and Glasgow. As far as I recall any passenger train taking a banker at Beattock stopped on the down main. I don't think passenger trains ever used the down loop(s), maybe unauthorised or because rarely unoccupied by goods trains.
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1 hour ago, DCB said:
A much maligned beast the LNER U1.
It spent years shoving trains up Worsborough Bank, very successfully. It could shove trains over the top at 12 MPH, if two 04s were used instead they had to stop to detach the pilot, and then restart on a 1 in 120 ish gradient. All it really needed was two firemen to feed the 70sq ft firebox.
The LNER Garrat with its 56.5 sq ft firebox (not 70 sq ft) was certainly unpopular with Bromsgrove firemen, but it was similarly detested by LNER firemen. It was reputedly a poor steamer with pressure as low as 100 lbs at the end of its climb, probably not helped by the bad water available and difficult tunnel working conditions. There seem to have been many nefarious strategies employed to ensure that it could be failed. It spent a lot of time on shed under repair.
The real mystery is why it was built in the first place. It might have been ordered by the Great Central and the LNER was presented with a fait accompli. It is even suggested that the order was for 2 of them. Gresley wanted none of it. His preferred number was none.
It looks like this powerfull ,expensive machine was aquired with no clear idea of how it was to be utilised, a white elephant right from the start. I do not believe that it was intended for banking work.
I refer anyone interested to a sadly defunct magazine with an interesting article, Vintage LNER No 23 by Owen Russell.
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Even as late as the 1960s you could hear Carlisle railwaymen refer to "The Lanky", and they meant the Lancaster & Carlisle and not as you might think The Lancashire & Yorkshire.
The Caledonian Railway in its publicity material called itself "The True Line" also the present day name of The Caledonian Railway Association magazine.
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The earlier Italian classes seem to be listed as B-B-B rather than Bo-Bo-Bo. I'm unsure of the difference but think it means 3 traction motors v 6 traction motors.
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The limited evidence seems to suggest only ad hoc appearances with no regular diagrammed turns. Another thought is " how would a 72A pacific for Eastleigh Works get there?" An up working to London followed by a Down turn on the Bournemouth Line seems likely. Again especially during high summer a hard pressed running foreman at Nine Elms would use anything available to cover his turns.
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My understanding is that each wagon repairing site was allocated a block of numbers which were applied consecutively as each wagon was repaired regardless of wagon type. You could say there was no logical approach.
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Scottish Region WTT Section W June to Sept 1953 shows all terminating at Canal Yard with one exception. It is train 577 the 10.25pm Class C from Aberdeen which terminates at Upperby Yard 9.10am MSX 9.25am SO.
Tom Robertson
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Just thought of some more - LMS Stanier 3MT 2-6-2T, LMS Fowler 4F 0-6-0, Caley Pickersgill 4P 4-6-0.
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LMS Fowler 2P 4-4-0, Fowler Compound 4P 4-4-0,Fairburn 4MT 2-6-4T, Hughes Fowler Crab 2-6-0, LMS 5MT 4-6-0, LMS 5XP 4-6-0, LMS 8F 2-8-0, Caley Jumbo 2F 0-6-0, Caley 3F 0-6-0, Standard 4MT 2-6-0, Standard 4MT 2-6-4T, Standard 6MT 4-6-2 were all definitely in use.
Other possibles are Caley MacIntosh/Pickersgill 3P 4-4-0, WD 8F 2-10-0, Standard 5MT 4-6-0.There may be others I have not thought of. A B1 4-6-0 is extremely unlikely but not impossible !
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On 08/02/2021 at 19:45, pH said:
Jubilees (although classed as ‘5X’ for part of the time). According to David L. Smith, they were the mainstay of both routes to Stranraer through most of WW2 - a Crewe North engine even had a regular job on one of the boat trains. And they were there into BR days, even after the Clans arrived.
The Crewe North diagram was for a 5XP later 6P 4-6-0 and was usually a Jubilee but an orginal Patriot did turn up accasionally.
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Examination and repairs could be on a mileage basis or time basis, from a daily examination by an examining fitter for engines working passenger trains to a valve and piston examination at about 36,000 miles or so.
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For public and working timetables 14 June 1965, apart from WR 15 June 1964 for public timetable only, and London Underground 7 September 1964.
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They were also applied to the NB D61XX rebuilt with Paxman engines. Class21/29 respectively.
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31 minutes ago, great central said:
I tend to agree that photo 7 looks like 'English' GN, Stirling/Ivatt era(?) but the tender is much more GC. The loco looks as if it's Irish broad gauge.
Knowing not that much about Irish railways, did any have contractor built locos, possibly Beyer Peacock given the similarity to a GC tender?
Edit: looking up Wikipedia there seem to be quite a number of B-P built 0-6-0s
48 minutes ago, Moxy said:I agree some are possibly Irish, but I'm not certain. This website https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/GREAT-SOUTHERN-RAILWAY-STEAM/i-3xQkqWL has the most comprehensive collection of Irish locos I've found, but none of the examples seem to match that website.
Could photo 7 be the 'English' Great Northern Railway perhaps?
Photo 9 is an LNWR coach, probably at Crewe or Wolverton, if it's an official photo.
Moxy
I believe that 7 are Irish Great Northern.
Railway Operating Division - Locomotive Livery
in UK Prototype Questions
Posted
Is it possible that there was no specific ROD livery for engines called up for continental service? It would make sense to retain existing livery with only addition of ROD lettering, thus saving time and resources.