Firecracker

Agreed. Very strongly agreed. I had an interest in railways before I discovered the models, same for the offspring of a friend I’m quietly encouraging, same for my cousin. Agreed strongly again. That community is critical. Might be through a friends, shop, a club, a point of contact or online. Doesn’t matter how it exists, provided it’s there. Can’t say I watch him regularly, but I was aware of him and his channel. It’s stuff like that that got me back into the hobby, in my case it was Kathy Millatt and Everard junction. Oh yes. The role of that community cannot be underestimated. Good for him, long may he continue. I certainly got into this through friends, it was the attic layout of a friends dad that got me hooked. Agreed. I had similar with someone realising the significance of 76080 running on a fictional preserved line in 3 seconds flat. I’ve also been pulled up on operational details. Ease of research is something we now take for granted. Example - I was renumbering an 08 recently. Wanted a vac only machine that had worked in the NW long enough to have survived into preservation. Quick google later, threw up 08715, finishing at Carlisle Currock in 2004. Mention that on Facebook and hit the jackpot - a friend on there’s an ex Stratford driver, it was based there previously and a bunch of photos of it in banger blue land in my messenger that day. How I’d have done that in 1996, aged 16 unless I’d managed to get a photo of it at Carlisle I really don’t know. Agreed. Oh boy, agreed! To me it doesn’t matter a toss what someone wants to model, it’s all equal. Might be a Hornby trackmat, might be a P4 epic. Doesn’t matter. You enjoying it? Good. That’s all that matters. If you’re guilty of that, I’m as well matey, I wouldn’t worry about it. Thanks for posting. More power to your elbow and show us what your up to somewhere please! Owain

You learn something new every day, didn’t know they’d done the pannier with that number! It’s something I think there’s mileage in. Owain

Going off topic, but the full sequence went thus, bid on collection of stuff that’s collection only due to weight. When this is pointed out, demand a postage cost. Agree happily to postage cost, then leave foul feedback about excessive postage charges and the time it took. Having told ebay precisely where to stuff it following their attitude towards said feedback, took up selling the rest of the stuff on a small ads site. Lead to a far more pleasurable and profitable (no fees!) experience. What this has to do with getting people started in the hobby, I’m not quite sure, but here we are... Owain

Agreed! This is something I get onboard in a big way! Sets that people can see. Flying Scotsman, Tornado, Black fives as 45407, 44871, 45212 with a few WCRC mark 1’s or Pullman’s for a bit of variety? Also other preserved locos? 45428, Repton, 825, 80135 (now that has been done) 80136, 63395 (and that’s just the moors current fleet). Any one got any idea on sales of the version of 80135 Bachman have done? I accept there will be licensing issues with the latest paint schemes, but it’s something to consider. Owain

16 years ago I did a web design course that lasted a day. At the end of it, I knew how to build a website that featured separate pages, images and looked passable (I’ve done naff all web design since then, but I suspect if my arse was in the fire and I needed a website to make money, I’d relearn how to quickly). I’ve made a few homebrew transfers, they worked, sort of, if you didn’t look too closely. But again, if I wanted to make money out of it, I’d learn how to do it properly. Currently teaching myself CAD, not due to any wonderful plans, more something I want to be able to use. Agreed. I’m certainly not. Diplomacy’s not one of my strong points,, for a start. Now that’s where I’m not convinced, because I’d have spent my money with one of the sellers if he’d take PayPal without a levy. His loss. Personally, I think it sort itself over time. I would say eBay as an alternative, but I won’t use that due to a spat selling second hand engineering tools and an idiot buyer who couldn’t understand the concept of ‘collection only’. Then again, it would be a very dull and boring world if we all felt and believed them same. Owain

Following on from my post, I can’t help think there’s two issues here. First, catching our genuine beginner, second, keeping hold of said beginner and encouraging them down the road. So at the first, we’re aiming a reliable, cheap train set which grabs them by the wossnames and gives them the bug. The second we’re adding to that train set. So more functionality, better details, getting into kitbuilding, all made as easy as possible. Personally, I think we’re OK on the first. The second? If it’s a toss up between a kit for a spitfire that comes with all it’s transfers and a wagon that needs transfers ( I recently finished a parkside fish van kit off that was first built in the mid 90’s. No transfers, because at the time aged 16 I couldn’t source any. Yet at the same point I was building the Avro Lancaster airfix kit in BBMF colours which came with a full set of transfers. I can remember being infuriated reading wagon building articles in the press where transfers were covered by a dismissive ‘using my stash of Appleby Model engineering transfers’. That’s no use to me matey, AME are unavailable. This is may sound like sour grapes and maybe it is, but it certainly was a factor in the sabbatical I took from the hobby. So upon my return, I’m spending my money with those who actually seem to want to take it off me. Owain

Fair enough. Agree to disagree again there. I didn’t say what my items were, deliberately, because I suspected people would be able to identify the traders and take this as a direct snipe at them and their products. It isn’t intended as such, more a comment on how I see the hobby. But in this case, I was looking for transfers for a parkside dundas kit and an 08. That kit our beginner has bought after building an airfix spitfire? Now I know Parkside are now sold with transfers, but I picked up three from my local yesterday and two were older stock with no transfers. Yes, I know there’s a fourth transfer supplier out there whose website isn’t too bad, but I wanted to see who else was out there and I’d hope I compared three similar one person operations. The big supplier I referred to is Peco. You know, the first hit in google for a search on ‘Parkside Dundas kits?’ Having dug my chequebook our, the last cheque I wrote was 8 years ago. Owain

Right, I’m probably going to upset someone here, but such is life. The consensus on this thread seems to be that to get new entrants to the hobby, the internet is key. So why do some traders treat the internet as a fad that’s not going to last? From my prowling recently (and I’m not going to mention names). First up, a major manufacture, whose website doesn’t format correctly on my ipad (might just be my pad, it is knocking on a bit) but also doesn’t list their full range, only featured products. Then, I started googling for some xxxx’s. First website tells me about some motors instead, then tells me if I want to use PayPal, I’ve got to add 10% to my bill (I’m 40-ish. I genuinely can’t remember when I last wrote a cheque). Their products are apparently superb, but they can’t show me any photos. Hang on, where’s that back button on my browser... Number two, gives me a long rant about they’re too busy to read emails, so any queries, phone. Nope. I’ve spent too long playing phone chess in my life. But they have managed to photo some of their stock. Back to results please... Take three. Looks a bit clunky, but there’s photos. They take PayPal. They apparently updated their website this month. One guess which one got my £20 and also turned out to read, send emails and despatch the goods in a day. Its not that hard folks. Owain

That the Toymaster on Middlegate? Didn’t know that was still going! After the old man took early retirement he used to go to Penrith during the week to do the weekly shop, now and again he’d get me humbrol paints and glues I’d run out of from there. Owain

Yes, had a good display of Britain’s farm stuff as well, remember visiting there occasionally (at the time we never went to Kirkby Stephen, now I drive through it regularly). There was another shop in Penrith that carried EFE lorries (the AEC mammoth) and buses when they first appeared in the UK (weirdly the first of those was actually bought in North Wales on holiday, the green JD Lowne dropside) Owain

And a bit more with the gronk! The cab detail has been picked out, Stratford’s details added to the livery and a driver (modified Hornby) added. A start has been made on the last transfers, that’s one side done (another Charlie Dore original in the background). Finally, the next projects have arrived. I need to educate myself on the details of GWR gunpowder vans... Owain

Right, first up (and this is going to sound like backpedaling and a bit of sycophancy, but I don’t care). BRM is a lot better now than it was 15 years ago, when I last bought a copy. However, I strongly agree with your second paragraph. Magazine reviews miss so much for me. I want to see something run, how noisy is it, how does it behave over points. Now I’ve got a BRM subscription as part of my gold membership and yes, the online magazines do have video clips in there. Model rail, Hornby magazine and Railway modeller doesn’t (at least, in the dead tree versions I get). Plus I’m not going to buy a magazine just for a review. Now I will agree, there’s a lot of the ‘Look at my cool train’ style crap on YouTube, but at the same time there’s decent stuff as well. Plus its free and I can get a lot of different views very quickly. The other thing is I might be considering something that’s been out a while, so the magazine review was a year or more ago. Now I will say this is where the BRM online archive is brilliant. But I haven’t got access to an archive like that for all the magazines. Also, looking at what I’ve bought over the last three years in rolling stock, none was bought on the back of a review. Every one was bought either because I wanted one, it was there at a very good price or simply I liked it (the 101 DMU is a good example of that. Every review I’ve seen since points out the discrepancy in the bodysides. Did that make any difference in me buying it? Not in the slightest. What reviews have done is bought manufacturers to my attention, so I’ve gone on to buy other of their products. But to be honest, I’ve got more of that off this forum. As as you say, horses for courses and your mileage may vary. Owain

Fair enough, we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I’m not saying that the cipurrent production is perfect (and apologies if it came across as that, that wasn’t the intention). There are plenty of lemons out there in current production (I’m sure my Hornby sentinel that only picked up on three wheels and required half the chassis dismantling to sort would put someone off. I certainly put off sorting it for a year). I will also give you that older stuff is a lot easier to work on, there’s a Hornby Dublo 08 on the bench for a friend at the moment that requires new brushes (if anyone knows where I can order some from, please shout) which to dismantle required the removal of one screw. However, I think I’ll struggle to get the low speed running out of it I’ll get out of the Bachman 08 sat next to it. I’ll agree to disagree on another point with you, that’s the ‘buy cheap’. Every display of older stuff I’ve seen where it’s in one piece it wasn’t what I’d call cheap. At Manchester I picked up a Bachman jinty off the secondhand stall for 25quid. Sold as a poor runner (which turned out to be due to an incinerated gaugemaster DCC chip and pickups full of fluff). Next to it was a triang Jinty, also tagged as a poor runner, with 40 quid on it. But that’s just what I’ve seen, there may be stuff out there (and very probably is) that I’m missing. Owain

I certainly don’t, Kathy Millatt’s videos are one of the things that got me back into the hobby. That, and a lot of the techniques videos people like Mig Jimenez are putting up. Social media’s got a lot of problems, but in this case it’s got a lot to be grateful for. Personally, I think the availability of information (you want a photo of a particular locomotive in 1983? Google will usually throw it up) is something we should be celebrating in the hobby. How often did I as a young teenager read an article in a magazine, to find the reference was either something long out of print or an ancient magazine (usually defunct) article? Nothing wrong with a good unboxing video! Those and the online reviews are light years ahead of the magazines (until a magazine manages to show me a video of something running, or how to get the body off to insinuate a chip). Also there’s a lot more of them, so you get a far wider spread of opinions than one isolated review. Owain

Absolutely. 100% agree. I’m assuming our beginner has followed a similar path to me and discovered airfix (and others) kits. Not just that’s they’ve got a Churchill tank and a spitfire to pose on their layout, but that they’re learning other skills. How to assemble a kit without leaving fingerprints behind, for a start. From those it’s an easy leap to the more straightforward building kits, say some of the ratio stable (NOT the provendor store!) and onto rolling stock, parkside (which now actually come with transfers, rather than when I was first building them) and Dapol. From there there’s Superquick and Metcalfe buildings as well. On a kit note, I’ve just stumbled across a thread on here about CDC models, apparently someone else offering 3D printed bodies to fit on RTR chassis. Hopefully, they want to build a model Railway. Stock is just a small bit of that, agreed. But I’d argue there’s plenty of kits within the reach of the pocket of our beginner to get them started. Owain

A start’s been made on the gronk. Very taken with Railtec transfers, minimal carrier film, good adhesion, no silvering. However, don’t do what I did and sail in blythly with a bottle of decal setting solution in hand. They don’t need it and react in a similar way to a slug dosed with salt. So, as always, read the instructions first, where you’re told not to use such horrible things! Highly recommended and their customer service is A1. (Reference pic on tablet credit and copywrite Charlie Dore) Owain

OK, I’ll lob another 10p into the pot. Let us take our ideal starter in the hobby. They’ve been bought a train set (because, let’s be honest, a set is by far the cheapest way of getting started, rather than buying bits individually). The bug has bit, so they start saving, Christmas and birthdays roll round, so in the first year they’ve got say a handful of wagons, two locos, a coach or two. Now, at some point, they’re going to come into the orbit of someone whose going to encourage them, guide them, might be a parent, as mine was, might be relations or friends. At some stage they’re also going to see other layouts. Might be their guides, might be at an exhibition. Hopefully, in this modern day and age, they’re also going to find other sources of information. Might be this forum (possibly through a parent) might be YouTube, Facebook, whatever. So hopefully they’re getting ideas, inspiration, encouragement. They’re also learning the multiple disciplines of this hobby, baseboards, electrics, scenics, research, design. They (if they don’t have it already, which personally I think is very unlikely) are developing an interest in the 12”-1’ stuff, history, operating, details and so on. Now, bearing sideways, secondhand stuff. Let’s be honest, there’s some rubbish out there, (personal bugbear coming up) starting with the trays of ancient triang and Hornby that (let’s be honest) wasn’t that brilliant when it was released and hasn’t improved with keeping (why that stuff retains its value, I’ll never know). Then there’s some of the early Bachman and mainline. Looks lovely, runs like a sack of you-know-what (luckily for our beginner, where I’ve seen it for sale, most seems to be a long way down the self-disassembly road). Now (as I did) our beginner is going to encounter this. Hopefully (as it didn’t for me, following a complete dog of a triang princess and a mainline j72 later) it won’t put them off. Because hopefully, they’ll learn or be guided and they’ll find the pearls in the dross. On the subject of secondhand, I should be the manufactures dream. 40-ish, single, debt free. Bit of a shame I don’t buy much new rolling stock. In the last three years I think it’s run to a Hornby sentinel, Hornby Ruston, Oxford Janus, Bachman 101DMU (new, but had been in stock for a very long time, so it wasn’t RRP), Heljan railbus, couple of coaches and the big ticket spend, Bachman R&R crane. Everything else, couple of dozen wagons, 7 locos, god knows how many mk1’s and Pullman’s has been second hand. How will the hobby survive? Well, I think with the three figure spend on DCC decoders alone, scenics, figures, materials and tools I think it’s doing quite nicely out of me, thank you. It’s the thing that amuses me with the obsession on rolling stock alone in this thread. That’s the cheap bit of this hobby and the bit I feel when you’re starting off, you don’t buy that much of. Anyway, my thoughts. Flames, comments, hurled bricks? Owain

it’s not a problem at all, more a source of amusement when someone quotes an auction price and wonders why something went for such an inflated price. I’ve attended slow auctions where stuff went for peanuts because the buyers weren’t there, no one knew what it was or it was badly described or labeled (and I’d be lying to say I haven’t benefited from it). On the other hand, I’ve seen buyers in a complete red mist frenzy, frantically bidding against each other to end up paying more than the new price I also know someone who learned the very useful lesson of ‘don’t bid whilst pissed’ when he became the proud owner of a stuffed shrew in a glass case for a highly inflated price (he wouldn’t tell me the actual price). Turned out the decimal point hadn’t been in the right place. Owain

Thought I’d chuck my 10p in. To answer the OP’s question, in my opinion there’s no cheap range because there’s not a sufficient return in it for the manufacturer. Simples... Am I worried about the future of the hobby? No, having seen the Oxford diecast tent at Dorset steam fair, with a steady stream of kid going away clutching cars and vehicles for their layouts/trainsets and having just looked through the Britain’s model trains supplement that came with model rail. However, first, let me tell my own story, then I’ll chuck some numbers at it. I got interested in model railways whilst at primary school. Went to someone’s house for tea, saw the layout in the attic, had to be dragged out, etc. My father (not wanting to spend money on something I might not retain an interest in) rattles the cages of various colleagues at work (this is early-mid 80’s) and a quantity of secondhand Hornby and triang came my way. This grew, but alongside Lego, Britain’s farm, airfix kits, warhammer etc (note, my father regarded computer games as a total waste of technology, so my hobbies were always hands on). I entered my teens and started my first job, at about the same time Hornby and Bachmann started to get their act together, so the local model shop did nicely out of me. Went to university, built a layout to fit in a college room for a bet, the hobby (along with a flourishing book habit) grew. Then I had a bit of a 10 year sabbatical, due to personal circumstances (buying a house, new job) and the hobby seeming to get stuck in a rut. I returned about 3 years ago. I’m doing my bit to encourage the next generation, a cousin (who’s since got distracted by women and bike road racing) was pointed at a box of surplus stock and invited to have a rummage (as have others). I’ve had a very enthusiastic young visitor (offspring of a friend), who’s currently got a massive brio setup who I think has been bitten by the bug as well. Price, I’ve jsut quickly browsed the websites of two of the big box shifters and if you’ve got 60-90 quid in your pocket there’s some damned nice new locos sat on their shelves. If you’re under 18, minimum wage is £4.50 an hour, for sake of arguement, call it 30 hours work gets you a nice engine (if you’re saving up and have nothing else to blow it on, I’m assuming haven’t discovered the opposite sex and alcohol). Relating numbers back to ‘in the day’ is hard, when I was a kid birthdays and Christmas presents were about £30, I could combine them if I wanted. Somewhere around here I’ve got the box of a Bachmann standard tank which I bought when it was first released, think the original sticker price was about 60 quid. Seriously, when you’re starting off, how many locos have you got? Personally, I think the hobbies in a better position than it’s been for years, due to the support that’s available, both information and materials. From this forum to premade baseboard kits, YouTube tutorials, materials available to order (when I started modelling seriously, woodlands scenics was this wonderful American stuff that all these stunning layouts in the magazines used and I had to wangle with the parents a day out to Carlisle to get any), 3D printing (isn’t the body kits mentioned earlier up the page what Hardy’s hobbies are doing?) Owain

All you need to make something worth money in an auction is two people who want it. The red mist and the auctioneer do the rest (speaking as someone who stood at a farm sale and watched people buying used plastic buckets at twice new price). EBay is an auction (which following a spectacular spat about feedback and an idiot buyer I won’t use any more) and the ‘rare/unique/collectors edition’ nonsense in the title of the item 90% of the time is an attempt to catch a fresh sucker. I’ll admit to being intrigued by UK secondhand prices for model railway stuff. Some is just plain ridiculous optimism (got snarled at at one exhibition when the stallowner was moaning about tight fisted customers, how no one was spending any money with him and I suggested his prices may have had something to do with it), yet at one of the last exhibitions I attended I stood at a secondhand stall with a Bachman jinty (unboxed)in my hand that had £25 on it and watched someone hand over twice that for an ancient triang jinty that was in worse condition. I’ve picked up a Bachman standard 4 and a Midland 4F (neither in original packaging, but otherwise perfect, excellent runners and both have since been renumbered anyway) for less than older Hornby, Lima and triang stuff on the same stalls. But hey ho, it would be a very strange world if we all wanted the same stuff. Owain

Transfers have (after damned impressive service from Railtec) arrived! Yes, I do know 08’s don’t have destination blinds and I’ve got unprototypical plans for two of those sparrows and the class 15 (that sheet was bought for the depot codes). But the rest (well, some of it) is for the gronk. Owain

Just a quick few words to praise the superb service from Railtec so far! Whilst browsing on here I became aware of them, so with an 08 to renumber I decided to give them a go. So an order went in yesterday at 11:07. I get an email at 14:57 yesterday from Steve to tell me the order had been despatched. Then, much to my amazement and pleasure they plop through the letterbox at 10:00 this morning. Superb, with service like that, you deserve to succeed! And yes, there will be more orders. Some custom destination blinds, for a start. Owain

And a bit more on the gronk frount. An order’s gone in with Railtec for transfers (found the thread on here whilst browsing, so decided to give them a go). It’s also been stripped and the chassis prepped for fitting a decoder with the removal of that random PCB and it’s support posts. Then a Zimo MX600R decoder is hardwired in and the whole shebang introduced to the SPROG. Addressed, roster entry in JMRI created and the top speed knocked back slightly, it has a hour or so on the rollers. Onto the body. The first stage is to go through and remove any surplus warning lights and remove the electrification flashes that are in the wrong locations. In this and the removal of the weathering the wasp stripes have suffered, so these were retouched. Also the surplus holes in the nose for the radiator ladders were filled. Owain

Right, following the latest hiatus, we’re back! A wide variety of distractions, including recommissioning a CNC mill, more respite care and emptying a shared shed so it can be demolished as the opening act of the neighbours kitchen extension caused the delay this time. Anyway, the current job is 350 shunters, two of. Both Bachmann, one in sectorisation grey which was fitted with a Hornby decoder. That’s been introduced to the SPROG and after a prolonged tussle, seems to be capable of smooth slow speed running. The second is in BR blue, cunningly hidden under a layer of ‘interesting’ weathering. So first up, remove the crud with cotton wool buds and white spirit. Before During After Next, an identity. I needed a vac only machine that could have survived into preservation. I also wanted something with a connection to the NW. Following some googling, 08 715 emerged as a candidate, ending up at Carlisle Currock in 2004 as the last vac only 08 and surviving in use as the depot pilot until 2007. Due to visits from the copper and bronze fairies, it ended up going for scrap. At this point, I discovered it was a Stratford engine previously and with the discovery that a friend and colleague of mine who’s an ex Stratford driver drove it 18 times when he was there, it was decided. So history was rewritten, she was rescued from Carlisle, entered preservation and lost the orange livery for a repaint into BR blue. Just like this. (Photo credit and copyright Charlie Dore) Owain

Question - anyone else had a Hornby decoder do weird things with the throttle and speed settings in JMRI? It’s the R8249 decoder. On the basis of my JMRI setup works with Lenz, Zimo, ESU, Gaugemaster and Digitrax I’ve reason to believe it’s not the software and I’m not pratting about reinstalling if it’s just Hornby decoders won’t play. There’s a much easier way of solving that problem. Mucho ta in advance Owain