Anadin Dogwalker

One of the early SNCF 2D2s -the 5500s?- of swiss design - on expresses and something like the Emmental/Bodensee Be4/4s for freight and stoppers would have my approval.

Absolutely loving this thread! Any recollections on the ride quality in the SDP40s? By this time, they'd derailed a few times, mostly on BN IIRC and the F40s were coming in. Jim Boyd delivered the earlier FP45s to the Milwaukee and their ride was apparently much worse than an SD45. Neill Horton

Categorically agree with this. I was really annoyed when I realised I left my first copy of CtF in the seat-back pocket of an aeroplane in 2012. In the last few years it's been pipped at the post by Skyfaring by Mark van Hoenacker. Until the pandemic hit, it had me convinced I chose the wrong career and should have been a pilot and not a vet. One of my clients is a short-haul pilot for BA. Last time we spoke he'd had seven hours flying in five months.

www.shapeways.com/shop/ph3d will get you to PH Designs, or if you go via www.shapeways.com/marketplace then filter in OO, British then put "eth" into the search box. Once they're painted up, it's a revelation how much detail is on them and how much difference they make to a bufferbeam. Yes the loop is 0.8mm

Forgot to say that the ETH connectors are from Shapeways, IIRC in set of 6 or 24. The coupling loop is 8mm brass wire. 86010 and 87008 are intended to be a regular pairing; there's a shot from March 83 of them on a coil trail in the centre tracks at Carlisle, coupled pans-in, which does look a bit odd. 87008 is on a Limby chassis; the no1 end has a wire loop, and the no2 end uses the NEM pocket and small coupler albeit with the hook shortened (by cutting and overlapping it) to eliminate slack. 86010 (and the rest) have wire loops both ends.

This is my sole 86/0 rebuild/furb. I've done two 87s an 86/2 and a Trix 81 and a 303. I tend to do these as a refresher between US projects. The mods to the chassis are; 1.a notch above the bufferbeam to let the light through to the offset headlight. This is a lens liberated from an Atlas HO numberboard/light group, IIRC off a SD35 whose drive I pinched for another project. A ring of heat shrink tube is then pressed over the lens prior to attaching. 2. the triangular restraints aren't seperate part but whittled down from the /2 flexicoil springs that are integral with the chassis and bits of strip and rod attached to the outside and apex respectively. The mu cables were removed from a broken class 50 shell off ebay, pipes and coupler are Hornby spares. The lamp brackets are Shawplan brass, and these also fold up nicely to make the triangular stirrups behind the buffers (which are A1 models). Wipers are also shawplan, the glazing is SE finecast. The cab interior is painted mid gray as are the sides of the windscreen pillars - which looks better than black to me. the control desk surface is gloss navy blue and the controls are black. The plated headcode is an etch by Jim Wright-Smith of New St P4 fame. The modified sand fillers were also on that etch but might be acetate (overhead projector transparency) on this model. The cab front handrails are 0.33mm nickel silver for the grabs by the light, and 0.5mm brass for the full width one below the windscreens, mounted on three pins of the same. Getting the curved rail to sit level on the pins is the most irritating bit of the rebuild. Paint is Revell 15 for the yellow and Phoenix rail blue and various enamels for the bus bar. The panto is the Judith Edge kit with the simpler variant of top hinge. It does work and is fully sprung. I've done three of these now, and they get marginally easier with practice, but all three have a tendency to ping overheight, then the top bit folds over comically. I also haven't been able to make them stable enough to prevent tipping in contact with catenary wire (or a ruler edge simulation). I've done different versions of the thrust rods that sit beside the springs to no avail. I think the key here is to minimise friction through weak springing. Novelty is on my to-do list as its less work than Sans Pareil and maybe another 0+3 mu'd. Neill Horton

I particularly like Novelty; was that Fox Transfers and did you use their numerals? I have the Fox set stashed but I'm worried the numerals are more cream than white- thoughts?

Sorry to go against the grain, but I can't get over the handrail above the head code which demonstrates zero progress in 40 years, the glazing looks seriously prismatic and the window frame mouldings and pillar thickness are both obviously finer/better proportioned on the Hornby shell.

A local resident once wrote a song about Woking: A Town Called Malice by The Jam. Great bassline by Bruce Foxton. I occasionally visit Hobbycraft on the east side of town (either there or Crawley); the immediate area is a bit of a dump but the route in from the south is as pleasantly leafy as anywhere else in Surrey.

Most if not all of the EM2 goddess names were reused for the 88, though not in the same order: Electra, Ariadne, Aurora, Diana, Juno, Minerva and Pandora. The EM1/76s that were named were (apart from Tommy and 26020) were the final boiler equipped dozen names after male Greek mythological characters. I cant remember the right order but I'll have a stab: Hector, Stentor, Mentor, Nestor, Pluto, Prometheus, Perseus, Jason, Triton, Archimedes, Diomedes and Ulysses was the last one. I think Triton and Pluto were the only gods in the list. I'm not aware of any of these being in current use and there are all the names of planets and moons (all of mythological origin) to recycle: Hermes/Mercury, Aphrodite/Venus, Aries?Mars, Zeus/ Jupiter etc Triton became Neptune and one of the 50s carried that (Achilles too) but there's a bunch of other characters like Sisyphus (rolling boulders uphill for eternity) Charon (boatman to the underworld, and Plutos moon) Narcissus, Medusa, Cerberus. A rich seam to mine.

Excellent call, Pillar. I'll take half a dozen in Greater Glasgow please

Another angle is to ask what models were done poorly enough to warrant a re-tool by the original maker or by the competition- AND aren't already in the pipeline? I'm struggling to suggest anything other than intra-class variations (like sliding window 27/0s with the tablet recess plated over). Any ideas?

The juice fans on here are hoping for more AC locos as the biggest gap to be plugged and units. Someone's already expressed that an 84 would offer an NRM collaboration, and lemons seem to attract a following. If they're up at Bo'ness scanning the 84 it would be ideal to scan the 303 set too and have said so to Bill on a couple of occasions. He looked at me like I was a stalker. I don't know what RFs or the other new chap's interests are. Bill's ostensibly GWR (but has got a new basement and has been able to restart on the Ontario+Western) and Jason's anything Brummie- the only uniquely Brummie power I can think of are the Lickey Banker or the Hunslet emus (323s?). Reviving the prototype HST power cars would be the only obvious low-hanging fruit; when I heard that conversation at Warley a few years back, Bill said they'd pass on the Mk3s or at least until ORs Mk3s had come to market. Given their ambivalent reception, I reckon a Rapido HST Mk3 could be viable.

Wemyss Bay and Sao Bento on the same show... they'll never top that. First encountered SB on a PTG tour in 2002 with lots of haulage with the EE 1200s on both the Beira lines and an ugly but thrashtastic MLW to Pocinho and back on the Douro line. Magic. SB struck me as being just like Glasgow Queen Street but with the temperature turned up.

Yes it did. Spring of 84 along with 87012 in stripes. I'd flip the eras. Neill

Nice job! Can we see more of the layout please?

Thank you so much Christian. I have forwarded the link to my Dad. Neither my German nor Google translate is good enough to establish for certain whether its just the axle and gear and you have to re-use the original wheels (which I think is the case) or its a complete wheelset. Any thoughts? Neill

Asking for my dad; he has a pair of Lima RAe/RABe TEE/Eurocity sets. The latter is getting around on three intact gears in the power car while the earlier version has all 4 cracked. Any ideas on sourcing replacements? I believe he's tried Peters Spares to no avail. Neill Horton

Rapidos recently announced Pennsy flatcars, many of which went to Trailer Train, may be of interest if you're looking for something shorter than 85/89 footers. Super variety of trailers they're offering too. I have ordered many. Train-Worx has produced a number of really useful HO trailers (they're mostly an Nscale outfit) that are bang on for 1965-75. All 40 footers, some with kerbside doors (some roads like NP really loved those) and a drop-frame variant used in the nationwide Sear's Catalogue pool. They were distributed by Intermountain but were only made in small runs to order. Worth pouncing if any show up on ebay.

My layouts minimum radius for passenger cars and TOFC is 24" on the NP mainline (and 30" on the Milwaukee so I can run Little Joes). I have a branch that pinches to 21" (as do some of the staging tracks) and -out of neccessity- uses the odd Peco settrack curved point which is notionally 21 and 17.5" which is at the limit for a GP9; 60 foot chip gondolas look comical. I'm not shy about fettling these points or car underframes. Shims made out of thin clear plastic inside the check rails and extending the tip of the frog by 3mm or so stops stock dropping into the oversize Settrack flangeways. I use code 75 for everything else. I'll single out Walthers six-axle passenger cars as being particularly in need of mods. I have a few Heavyweights and full length domes in Milwaukee and GN; the latter definitely benefit from whittling notches into the underframe and inside truck corners to improve their rotation range and eliminate snags. I remove the lighting rubbing strips. I repainted one heavyweight obs as NPs Green River business car. Chopping out parts of the centre sill (not noticeable unless you turn over the car) enabled it to traverse the full length of the branch. Also replacing the axles with Kadees (36" diameter wheels) is essential for the six axle cars to stay on the track; out of the box, I've had HWs (and some 4 axle Hiawatha cars) derail when propelled in a straight line. Oiling the bearings helps too. Quite why Walthers own wheelsets are such a liability isn't obvious but I'm inclined to blame the slightly flexible plastic axle. Hope this helps, Neill Horton

Gorgeous!

Yep, you've got it. The current draw causes heating. Drivers were not supposed to use the red zone at all, opening the throttle too quickly would cause an overload and would trip breakers but I've no idea what figure they were calibrated to. Overheating can be a problem at any speed, its determined by the current draw not RPM. The back EMF of the motors is what determines the balancing speed for any given notch. To complicate matters, there's field weakening options. Reducing the voltage across the field coils (the electromagnet part) of the motor, while maintaining full voltage to the armature (the spinning part) cuts the back EMF in direct proportion to the voltage cut. (ie a 10% cut gives 10% more speed). This then allows the motor to turn even faster. In orthodox DC machines like the Woodhead electrics (but not the 70/71/74 boosters- they're something else entirely), the use of multiple weak field diverts or resistors gave many extra running notches for any given motor configurations (series, series-parallel, parallel). Most of their throttle notches were resistance notches what were meant to be transited and not used for more than seconds. In the AC electrics every notch was a running notch, but the use of weak field varied between classes. The highest notches engaged weak field on some, the 86s didn't have any at all to keep the circuits as simple as possible, while the 87 had a permanent 15% (ish) field divert across all the notches to optimise high speed work. Roys scenario is a bit different, a mix of a heavy train and the loco unable to get a grip on the railhead. And wheelslip condtions and what they do electrically deserve a separate post:^D

Re max power in electrics, its best to think of the throttle being different in diesels and electrics. In diesels it controls supply (ie revs from the engine block) and in electrics it controls demand from the OHLE/3rd rail which is at full power all the time - unless there are lots of trains drawing current at the same time, or the system has become relatively underpowered with age (I model the Milwaukee Road 3000v DC electrification in the Pacific Northwest of the US; it was designed in 1915 for 3000hp boxcab sets and barely coped with pairs 5100hp Little Joes of 1948 vintage). Horsepower converts to watts; 1000hp approx= 750 kilowatts. 1 watt= 1 amp x 1 volt. When the throttle is advanced on electrics of any type it's increasing the voltage available to the motors, in the case of 81-87 as typically 38 notches as taps off one side of the transformer or other (high on the 82,6,7, low the rest). The motors then draw enough current for their speed to match load conditions and balance when the back EMF voltage meets that supplied. The voltage supplied is fixed for each tap but the amps the motors draw in order to catch up (when accelerating) are not. The greater further and faster the throttle is advanced, the more catching up there is to do, the greater the current draw. The ammeters on the electrics were colour shaded to make life easier for drivers not having to remember specific numbers that would vary between classes. Irrespective of the notch, the green band indicated what amperage could be maintained indefinitely without overheating (and the top of the green band and at maximum volts= the continuous rating) . The yellow band was permitted to be used when accelerating, but did involve some overheating which could be tolerated for variable amounts of time- the greater the load the shorter the time. Hour ratings are commonly quoted but 5 and 10 minute ratings for even higher powers would exist, whether or not the numbers are available for reference. These would be in the red zone of the ammeter. To create a maximum power situation, you'd need a maximum voltage and maximum amps; think of a heavy train or on a gradient with a clear road ahead and then notching up the power rapidly. The amps would build rapidly but peak power demand would occur if notch 38 (max voltage) is reached and maximum amps are being drawn. When the train speed balances and stops accelerating the amps should then settle back into the green zone. If the ammeter remains in the yellow zone, the driver ought to notch back unless there's a mitigating reason, eg making up for delays or cresting a gradient. So a full power scenario is a bit of a freak, while exceeding the continuous rating -ie use of the yellow ammeter band- would be a routine occurrence with gradients and during acceleration. As a very rough rule of thumb the the maximum output of the AC electics was about 50% above the continuous rating; 7800hp for the 87s rings a bell. FWIW the horsepower curve of a class 71 peaks at something like 4000hp, against a continuous rating of only 2500hp, compared with a Deltic at 3300hp at the driveshaft. It' illustrated in OS Nocks Locos of the 20th century vol 3. So while the 83 has the least continuous horsepower of the AC electrics and less than a Deltic, it would easily thrash a Deltic in a drag race thanks to the extra power the 83 could draw. A 71 probably would too. Not that that ever happened. Cheers, Neill Horton

Jim, This is ASTOUNDING. The last few years I've attended Model Rail Scotland, I've had a hankering to try to follow these and other erased lines on foot. The only bit I managed to achieve due to time and weather was the path along the Rothsay Dock underpass towards Yoker yard. Back when we lived near Aberfoyle, and my parents worked in Glasgow, our dentist was across the road from the Botanic Gardens station and I remember my Dad lifting me up to peer over the parapet to look down at the platforms. Are there any bits that have been opened up as cycle paths like the elevated section west from Scotstoun? Is there a show covering the Dalmarnock-Carmyle leg of the ex Calley lines? Very very grateful. Neill Horton

What a pity, it was a super wee layout. I'll second Legends post; Kilbowie is ace but I was a bit underwhelmed by Dalnottar Riverside. It didn't look quite as good in person (at Model Rail Scotland) as it did in Chris Nevard's photos. Perhaps the lighting was a bit austere and it was set at kids viewing height which didn't help.