cwam

Well, I have been waiting for the newly tooled HST to appear in fGW "fag packet" livery ever since the HST was retooled (and, in fact, I was waiting for it in the old tooling as well!) so you can imagine that I am a happy chappy! I had just about given up on ever getting one. It looks like my planned Penzance-based scenario circa 2001 has got a bit of life in it after all! Also, I couldn't figure out why neither Hattons nor Rails had anything about the 2022 Hornby range, but having read through many pages in this thread I know now, at least in part - so much knowledge on here!

Or, as we used to say in my old work place: On time; No defects; Pick one. More generally, I think the fact that Bachmann has chosen not to include anything new in their 2020 catalogue only means that people will be more interested than ever in these quarterly announcements - even if it is only to find out if there will be any re-liveried items in the next three months. However, if Thomas is all they have to announce then so be it. Hornby and Accurascale have planned so much this year that I want to get I will be glad if the only thing I have to buy from Bachmann is their much anticipated (well, by me anyway!) Class 117.

*Gasps!* You hear about such people but you never think you will actually come across one - can't we have him banned or something? (from a fellow Norn Ironer!)

Yes, but that was what I meant - sorry for not being clear - I think announcing re-liveries three only months ahead is a mistake. People do need time to budget and plan for purchases, especially as prices increase to reflect the ever higher quality of the models. Surely their production process should be reliable enough that they can announce reruns and new liveries with reasonable confidence that they will arrive within a 12 - 18 month period? But then, maybe it is an interim measure so we will see how it pans out. Maybe they could just keep the old tooling each time they revamp a model and use that? Take the Class 220/1 or the Class 170s - they are a reasonably good model it is just that they are not DCC friendly. But people are still buying them on eBay. Even the old tooling class 158's are selling reasonably well. Give it a few years of introducing nice newly high-spec models and then, when you have enough of the older stuff to offer even a handful of items, introduce a new budget range. It does occur to me, though, that Bachmann seem to have made a choice to aim for the high spec high cost market - when you release a coach that has an RRP of just under £85 (the new Mark 2F) so that to make a rake of six plus a loco you are looking at £680 RRP (inc. £170 RRP for current Virgin Class 47 loco), well, you are not aiming at kids and first time model railers! Even with a 10% discount that is still over £600. There cannot be anyone at Bachmann who would think that item would sell to the general market - they could not be as out of touch as that! Hornby, by contrast, have always had a keen eye on the kids and beginners; presumably the strategy being, in part, to keep newcomers coming into the hobby and thus ensure a market in the future, and partly because the models are cheaper to make and easier to make a profit from. People are sometimes critical of Hornby's "trainset" approach but I, for one, am glad that I will be able to get a six-coach Pendolino in AWC colours for just over £300. Meanwhile I am still scratching my head and wondering how I will ever afford that Virgin XC train! It won't be by buying Bachmann coaches, that's for sure! I am likely only to get the Bachmann RFB because Hornby don't have one in their Mark 2F range.

Thanks for that, I always wanted to know! Yeah, they really need to have a category called "Planned Future Release" or some such to distinguish between items that have actually sold out and items that haven't even been made yet. As for "Shroedinger's availability" - LOL - nice one!

I agree - I am half tempted to buy one even though it doesn't fit in my era! But I am sure they will release new liveries on this model, it would be crazy not to; we just might not know about them very far in advance this year! BTW, I always meant to ask someone - what is the difference between a class 158 and class 159? Many years back I had (briefly) the old Alphaline Wessex Trains Class 158 and the SWT Class 159 but apart from the extra coach in the SWT one, I couldn't see any difference!

Well, I don't mind delaying announcements until they are within a 12-18 month period from the items being in the shops, and I get that means there have to be some years with no announcements about any newly tooled items. Three years from now it won't be an issue anyway since they will have "caught up" - what is three years in this hobby? In any given year there are usually so many more models than I can afford to buy I am still scrounging around on eBay hoping to find models that were first released way longer than three years ago - I only just purchased the last in my rake of Mk1 grey-blue Pullman coaches last week! I did think, though, that they should be able to announce in the catalogue any planned new liveries for existing items such as, say, the class 158 and I see no point in buying a catalogue which has no new content compared with last year's catalogue - or am I getting that bit wrong? Might there be products that have been announced *since* last year's catalogue so they will be in this years but not in last years? I'm unlcear about that. It's a bit disappointing - I have a Bachmann and Hornby catalogue for every year since I started this hobby - back in 1999; I much prefer paper copies than browsing online (and it is not that I am a technophobe - I used to be a computer programmer and still use the things several hours a day!) but I don't collect the catalogues just to collect them so, as I say, it looks like I won't be buying one this year! Although, maybe I could use the fact that it includes other gauges as the excuse....I might just be a collector after all, but in denial!

I am also a sci-fi kit builder; a few years back a company called Round 2 in the US were being lobbied to produce a 1/350 scale model of the original Starship Enterprise from Star Trek. They didn't know if it would be profitable or not. The solution they came up with was the "1701 Club" (1701 being the registry of the starship) They asked people to place orders but did not begin production until they had 1701 orders in place. The result was 1701 limited edition models but once the tooling had been made the standard version was available for anyone to buy (and it has been a hit ever since - I have two of them!) Maybe Cavalex could do something similar - asking people to commit a certain percentage of funding up front until they get enough orders to completely fill the production run. I am sure they have thought of all kinds of variations on this - it is not all that different from the process they describe on their own website - but I agree with Mike here - anyone who cares about getting a nicely detailed Class 91 will not buy the Hornby one, esepcially if it isn't nearly up to the Cavalex spec; and the people who don't care about the detailing are already buying the existing Hornby one and would not be likely to pay more for the Cavalex version anyway. I don't think Cavalex will lose sales if they go ahead. But for us on a forum it is only talk - for them it is potential financial disaster; they already have something nice going and I can understand why they would not want to risk all they have achieved so far by going up against Hornby on this. Maybe if the Hornby version doesn't turn out to be a hit Cavalex can revisit this in a couple of years' time?

Cavalex's loss will not be Hornby's gain as far as I am concerned; I wanted a class 91 but not if it is going to be a half-hearted effort designed only to scupper the competition. Unless Hornby produce something spectacular it will be companies like Accurascale who will get the money I was planning to spend on the Cavalex 225 - unless Cavalex themselves come up with something else I am interested in of course - then they would get first shout!

I couldn't agree more - with both parts of that statement!

Very sad news indeed, but probably inevitable given Hornby's decision. However, it was far from being a pointless exercise - no doubt it was the Cavalex 91 that prompted Hornby to update theirs. Also, N gauge users will still get what is likely to be a fantastic model. Well done Cav and Alex, and all the best!

Now you come to mention it, I have been using Rails and eBay a lot in recent years; I am trying to gather stock for Penzance circa 2000 and there ain't much new stuff coming out that is relevant for that!

That is fascinating! Not once in my life have I ever received anything from Hattons in a new box! It has always been a cut down and taped together version of what had obviously been used before! They also used to arrive wrapped in brown paper tied with string! Colin.

Hopefully their skin is thick enough to stand a few humourous remarks! I, for one, was always glad to know that when Bachmann announced a new item I wanted I would have at least four years to figure out how to gather the money to buy it! And, with the new class 158 being such a good model, I am sure there are many (like me) who will be happy to see more liveries on it; I have been waiting for a SWT version and was *so* excited when I saw the catalogue picture for the first time, until I realised it was, of course, EMT! I have also been waiting for the new Class 117 in BR Blue-Grey which is coming this year. With the Cavalex 225 project and Accurascale seemingly having a direct line to my model rail wishlist, I will be glad if I get another "quiet" year from Bachmann! I fully expect a revamped Voyager to the same standard as the new Cl58's in VXC, AXC and AWC liveries but I don't want them for another couple of years! Colin.

Looking forward to the update; I also think your approach to the coaches is spot on. I’m hoping there will be info on how to order the ‘Flying Scotsman’ LNER loco & dvt - that is the one I’m waiting to preorder! All the best cwam