Lambeg Man

Brief update as the garden has taken priority over the last three or so weeks. Regarding a replacement Buffet car for my NIR BUT Railcar 'Enterprise' set, the donor was a Bachman 57' LMS open 3rd. The Donor.... The CUTS and the SHUTS.... Body ready for painting, but first to another matter.... When I looked at the photo of NIR No. 552 in 'Parting Shot' I noticed there was was a lot of white paint inside the end corridor gangway. I then realized something I had previously missed about BUT Railcars and in particular their "continental" corridor connections. On the power cars the rubber connections met directly onto the body work. However the middle front of the power cars extends out past the end of the main body as is the case with a BR Mk. 1. This protrusion of the corridor connections ensured a tight fit when the power cars were coupled to each other. However the trailers all had no such 'end protrusion', their ends being at complete right angles to the ends of their body sides. There was therefore a 'spacer' of noticeable depth fitted to the end of each trailer car to which the standard BUT rubber corridor connection was then fitted, giving the effect of a noticeably deeper/longer corridor gangway. In consequence the 'face' of the BUT corridor connection can be seen to be out level with the coach buffers. Therefore my next step is to work out a solution for the four BUT trailers I currently have.

Hi JHB, Warrenpoint cabin in 1964 - Photo: R. Hendry

Thank you Kirley for your response. You present a good case. I spent all day yesterday mulling over the issue with the Buffet car not having the correct window arrangement on one side. I have examined a replica of the donor vehicle (a Bachman LMS open Third) and discovered what may have been an original problem for Ivor. The donor carriage is a scale 57’, has two doors, two half (toilet) windows and seven full sized windows. The ‘B 8’ had two doors, one half window, but NINE full sized windows in a side 58’ long. The only way to accurately model this carriage is to reduce the spacing between ALL the window frames. This could be done either to a new coach body (which may be of more use for another project), or trying to adapt Ivor’s original sides. Both ideas sound very hard work. Reducing the window spacing on one side would involve doing the same to the other and then the interior tables/seats would need altering as well. I have been oblivious to the error for 25 years, I think I can manage another 25! My final decision is to paint the 'good' side in the 'Regional' blue and cream livery seen in the previous photograph and use it as a 'spare'. Besides, it was in real life the ‘reserve’ car, so my limited efforts will go into producing a reasonable model of the regular ‘B 6’ car. Other catering vehicles planned are the ‘B 4’ former Restaurant Car, NIR No. 554 (for the planned ’70 class’ set) and the ‘B 10’ Buffet Car which went to CIE and after refurbishment went into their ‘Enterprise’ set in the late 1960’s. Both vehicles were built on a 60’ chassis, so Airfix LMS compo’s will make excellent donor vehicles. The other only other ‘catering’ vehicle planned is the former ‘K 23’ Buffet Car, NIR No. 556, which ran as a ‘support trailer’ to No. 554 in the ’70 class’ Enterprise set. This vehicle had the Buffet fittings removed in 1966 when it then became an ‘open second’, basically similar to a ‘K 15’. The beauty of this vehicle to model is that it retained the original ‘K 23’ side profile of having only two doors on each side as opposed to the four doors that the contemporaneous ‘K 15’ carriages had, as shown in the following drawing. Side profile of ex-GNR 'K 23' carriage However in photographs of this set both No. 554 and No. 556 are noticeably wider than the UTA built ‘70 class’ power cars and trailers, so I may do them by way of overlays on donor coaches…

Nice video Kirley

Further to my previous post, may I remind readers that Ivor was working without drawings. I submit the following pictures of the interior Ivor made for the Buffet car as a testament to his modelling skills. The only problem with the Brake/First is the chassis built to accommodate the power bogie. Over the years it has become loose and fails to house correctly in the otherwise perfect (scratch built I believe) body. I think I will endeavor to replace it with the chassis of a Hornby 57' coach. Just got to work out how to locate the power bogie....

Ever started something and then wish you hadn't? For years I have used 'Modelstrip' paint remover and always found it very effective at removing old paint with causing any damage to detail on the model. However when I put the four NIR liveried coaches through the process, 'Modelstrip' was not wholly effective as can be seen in the above photo. Too late now for a change of plan, I repeated the process with the following result. Still not wholly effective, but details were now starting to suffer. At least the power cars were a little better. Revised interiors were tackled first. As seen below, plastic floors were made in favour of the brass ones previously mentioned as I could get plastic to stick to the brass. Repainting into NIR livery will be the next activity. Slight problems with the two trailer cars, the Buffet and the Brake/First. The 'kitchen' side of the Buffet car is largely fine. It represents a 'B 9' GNR built vehicle. Unfortunately Ivor appears to have spent time removing the 'ribbing' from the roof of the donor carriage, when in fact No. 551 had a ribbed' roof. If one consults the photograph in "Parting Shot" of the real thing, it will be seen that the end door on the other side was panelled over at some point, probably by the UTA. So the end door (on the right of the photograph below) was probably treated the same. A bigger problem is the other side, seen in the next picture. On the real thing the correct window arrangement is seen in the following photograph. Believed to be a Richard Whitford photograph To hack or not to hack, that is the question. So the question is, do I try and amend Ivor's otherwise impeccable handiwork, or do I try and fashion a revised side from scratch? Or do I just leave as it is? Answer tomorrow..........

Yes, before embarking on this current refurbishment exercise I of course looked back at all your tribulations when you built your BUT sets. Ivor did me a model of the 'B 8' including a very realistic interior, which as you say can't really be seen in all it's glory. However, in the absence of a drawing he got one side (the non-kitchen) slightly wrong. Besides, the 'B 8' was the reserve car for the 'Enterprise' set, hence the reason for wanting to build the 'B 6'.

I am attempting to model the 1960's UTA/NIR catering vehicle No. 552 (ex-GNR No. 88 - classification 'B 6'). I have the following drawing of the interior as it would have been around 1957 when it became a BUT trailer. However in 1962 it paid a visit to Duncrue Street Works where it got a major overhaul. The fixed seating shown in the above drawing was removed and loose chairs were substituted. The end door on the left was panelled over. It was and remained the primary catering vehicle in the UTA/NIR "Enterprise" BUT railcar set until it was replaced with the 'Class 70' set in 1969. However, it was by now designated as a "Buffet Car" rather than as a "Restaurant Car", which it had been from when it was built. Original query regarding the revised interior answered. The above sketch by Ken Pullin was published in 'Five Foot Three' when No. 552 came too the RPSI. It appears no change was made to the kitchen area post 1962.

Thank you for that Colin. Was the eventual 'NIR' maroon/grey livery exactly the same as the UTA's 'Northern Counties' regional livery or a variation on a theme? Above: A 1965 Richard Whitford photo shows an MPD set in a more 'brick red' than 'maroon' for the 'NC' regional livery.

Many thanks for the helpful advice Kirley. I have one Black Beetle motor that I bought some years ago. Compared to the T/H DMU motor I found it lacked traction and power (skin and rice pudding come to mind!). It will go into my 3-car AEC set, releasing one T/H bogie for a '70 class' set. As to NIR 'maroon' I suppose one has to be careful when looking at photographs as the following pictures demonstrate: Above: Looks a deep 'maroon' here (Photo: J. Allen) Above: Looks much more pure 'red' here. Also what was officially 'light grey' looks very 'white (Photo: A. Dale) And then there is the one with the almost 'brown' tint in the previous post. I already have a 'maroon' paint that I have used previously that I thought came out alright, especially under florescent light.

Thanks Kirley. A leaking shower cabinet took up my time today, so no 'real' work to report. However a couple of remarks with regard to my previous post. I have for years used the Triang/Hornby DMU power bogie purely on account of its pulling power. I know they are ‘old’ technology and that some may ask why I persist in using them. No doubt there are better types about today, but one T/H DMU power bogie will happily shift 8 coaches around a layout. With only one power bogie my 6-coach BUT set had no problem 'storming' the gradient on the NCG’s ‘Bleach Green’ layout. Above: My BUT set working on the 'Bleach Green' layout. More pictures already posted in the "BUT Railcars" topic on this website. So one such bogie will happily power an 8-car BUT set, a 7-car '70 class' set or a 3-car MPD hauling say 20 goods wagons! They happily hide away in a Brake compartment and I always endeavor to fit a a 'power collection' bogie at the other end of the coach containing the power bogie. This allows for very smooth running over points, especially double crossovers of which there are two on my layout. I was hoping to avoid having to do a repaint of the NIR set, but examination of contemporary photo's and those taken when built show the tone of the 'maroon' especially has actually faded. Still, after 25 years even I have faded a little! However, examination of photo's of the real thing and the current livery on the model is that in reality the NIR 'maroon' had a slightly more 'brown' tint to it than the deep 'red' hue on the model. Above: The real thing Above: The front of my '900' car So tomorrow the NIR set is going to receive the 'modelstrip' paint remover treatment. Besides, I want to add another car in the same livery so painting all in the same light grey/maroon will retain conformity. Note also from the above photo's that the curve on the cab window corners needs reducing to make it look less like a BR 'Craven' DMU front and the current headboard needs fine tuning.

Hi Kirley, Going back to your spoil train sequence, how do you 'moderate' the two locomotives so the the rear one for example is not pushing the wagons too hard against the lead engine, which would presumably cause the wagons to derail? Is this a benefit of DCC?

It has been a while since I posted on this site, so I thought an update may be of some interest. The actual layout has had no further work done on it since about September last year. The rear baseboards with the Hidden Sidings are causing problems due to my lack of carpentry skills. In September last year I was on holiday in North Yorkshire and called in at the premises of 'White Rose Modelworks' in Bedale. They advertise in the Railway Modeller. I was treated to a half hour 'lesson' in how baseboards should be made by the proprietor. I have decided to buy new baseboards from them, but to keep the cost down, I would order and then collect them on a weekend trip back up there in the caravan as soon as the good weather came back. Well that was the plan...... Yeah, as to when I can get back to Yorkshire to collect them is anyone's guess. So, unable to progress the layout I have turned to the rolling stock. Nearly all the goods stock has had a repaint and await the fitting of decals when I work out just how to do that.... So the coaching vehicles. 25 (yes 25!) years ago I received these from Ivor Hughes who I was then in regular correspondence with. Ivor very kindly produced models of a 4-car BUT set in NIR livery and a 4-car BUT set in UTA 'green' livery. Excellent models they are and all the more as I gather Ivor had no drawings at the time and was working from what photographs were available. He has given details of the conversions and the donor carriages he used elsewhere on this web site. However the passage of time has meant that they have become a tad 'tired' looking, so I decided on a refurbishment programme for all eight vehicles, plus the addition of three further BUT vehicles of my own making. The first thing I did was to send the Triang/Hornby DMU power bogies for these and two other railcar sets I have away for attention. I used 'Scalespeed' (who also advertise in the Railway Modeller) and have been extremely pleased with the work done. They all run as a sweet as a nut, even without tom another bogie. As built, the dummy power cars in both seats were not fitted with seats or interiors. Some time back I had a go at fitting seats (and passengers) to the two dummy power cars in the NIR liveried set, which by the way is made up to represent the NIR "Enterprise" set in use in the late 1960's. However the plastic sheet I used for floor proved to be far too thin. Above: The interior (with seats already removed) which I made for the '700' car. Note the amount of distortion. Above: The interior I made for the '900' car. One of the problems when fitting a floor is the protrusion of the original coach weight in the centre of the carriage. Above: Note the gap between the floor and the vehicle chassis My remedy was to cut and fit new floors with thicker plastic card/sheet. Above: The chassis of the '700' car with new floor cut from plastic sheet. However this was not a total success, requiring much packing and was still not as rigid as I hoped it would be. Using even thicker plastic sheet causes the problem of raising the floor level the seats are going to rest ever higher towards to bottom of the window line. That means that all the existing seats would have to be trimmed to a much lower height. I did look at removing the carriage 'weights', but the bogie supports are about the same height, so I reckon little would be achieved by their removal. I went to the spares box and found a sheet of brass I bought years ago (can't remember what for). While being quite thin, being metal it is much more rigid than plastic sheet. So all four dummy power cars now have new floors! Above: Brass floors in all four dummy power cars. I next turned my attention to the two dummy cars from the UTA 'green' set. The NIR liveried ones came with the most brilliant 3-D engine detail. Above: Close up of the underfloor engine and transmission on the '900' car. However, the UTA liveried ones were built with wire mesh valances covering the engines/transmissions as per how the real things were initially built. Above: Close up of the mesh valances fitted to the UTA liveried cars. Although some BUT railcars carried these around for a while, by the mid-1960's there were left off altogether. Now as some of you know, I only ever pay attention and work on ONE side of a coaching vehicle, that being the side that will be seen when it is running on the layout. I pay no attention to the other side as I will never see it! So a cunning plan evolved. I would remove the valance from one side of each car. Above: Valances removed. Now I would cut the model engine/transmission from one side of the NIR liveried cars. These would then be fitted to the UTA liveried cars and the whole will look ding dang ..... However I have just discovered that the model engine/transmissions are integral to the construction of the NIR liveried cars' chassis. So it looks like the UTA cars are going to get "Kirley" scaled down photo's to replace the valances. More tomorrow on seating and interiors.

Hi Colm, Like others loved the back story, well researched. I always cast an envious eye on Ken's carpentry skills as mine are non-existent. Looking forward to following your progress.

Interesting that you mentioned graffiti John. In the later 1960's though trains themselves seemed only targets for stone throwers (Central junction area was particularly bad in an early evening), photo's show that ANY bare wall in the urban areas was enscribed with some form of slogan, whether political or a football team. Running through the area it did, the a passenger on a train heading into GVS would have seen exhortations for "Linfield" and the "UVF". See the cover of "Steam's Last Fling" for an example of what was prevalent throughout Northern Ireland (from both sides of the fence). A personal memory was after the main front section of GVS was demolished, the north face of the surviving south wing was left as a large plain rendered wall. It would have been on your right as you came out of the station. Seeing it completed on a Friday evening I remember thinking "How long is that going to stay that clean?". The local graffiti boys did not let us down as by the following Monday morning someone has daubed right across the wall in black paint (rather crudely) the words "HOME RULE - FOR ENGLAND"............

Hi Mike, regarding the old layout see JHB's posts in the "other place". Hi Neil, thank you for posting that RTE news item, very interesting. Steve

Very enjoyable video Kieran. More power to your elbow!

Many thanks for that reply. I will now sleep easy in my bed.......... Great modelling Kieran....

Nice one Kieran. Love the AEC Railcar set footage. However I am slightly curious as to how you ended up with a "narrow bodied" version of a K 15? Would going back to page 1 of this thread give the answer?

I once had a GNR(I) signal lamp that came from Lambeg station when it was de-staffed. It did not look anything like the above - angular corners, four glass plates that slid in from the top on each of the four sides. Could the above (assuming the "GNR" plate is genuine) be a GNR of England product?

What's not to like. Nice one Andy.

Top man!

Yep, got the grey ones and very nice they are. Your mention of the name Baillie-Gage rang a bell. In my papers I have a copy of a Memoranda dated 1943: 15th October 1943 M. Baillie-Gage wrote the following to Harry Wilson (Chief Draughtsman); Please note that the Vans of Carriages No. 53 (L 12), 87 and 315 (L 6) have been fitted with two notice boards on the inside of Vans, one notice board marked “VIA LIFFORD” the other “VIA CASTLEFIN” also a white line 3″ painted longitudinally down the centre of the Vans. On the outside the destination boards were painted as follows: - On one side “DUBLIN FROM COUNTY DONEGAL”, and on the other “STRABANE FOR COUNTY DONEGAL”. The Vans are fitted with staples and locks on the doors so that they can be sealed by the Customs. Carriages No’s 53 and 315 are already in traffic. No. 87 will go to traffic today, 15th instant. These are per your verbal instructions of the 30th ultimo. 7th December 1943 M. Baillie-Gage again wrote to Wilson to advise that No. 244 (L 6) had also received the same treatment as Carriages No. 53, 87 and 315. These alterations were obviously for the "Free to Free" traffic.

Yes Andy, your crane and container flats are indeed front runners.......... However I kept my ace card until now....... Still running on my current layout is a Triang Southern Railway bogie Utility Van, masquerading as a 'P' van in UTA green. However the doors still open to reveal their original red colour. This van came from the remnants of a cousin's train set that he was given circa 1962. So I am claiming an age of 57 years at least for that one......... The wheels on it are a sight to behold as I've never been able to remove them and fit modern replacements........ Still, it runs okay-ish..... Regarding your Hymek, given how the GNR was for years wedded to Beyer Peacock steam engines, had the company survived post 1958 and sought diesel engines from Britain, I have often pondered that they may well have bought Hymeks. How about painting your non-runner up in the GNR's 'MAK' livery and leaving it in a siding either awaiting scrapping or preservation as a non-standard? Thank you John for the helpful suggestion. All my goods vans whether they be Triang, Hornby (later), Wrenn, Airfix/Dapol or Bachman are wooden bodies. These are fine for those that worked behind UTA steam until 1966, but I have little in the way of more modern vans that would be appropriate for late 1960's CIE freight trains. Something I will need to work on. However I have just got six 'bubbles' to be getting on with.

I have four 'opens' (low-sided) already in "Courtaulds' red". The two 'open's in the photo (plus one other) are higher-sided and all three will "loco coal" wagons for Portadown shed. A trick I am going to attempt is to paint all (but the fitted vans) grey, daub the letters 'G' and 'N' on the van sides, then paint a 'wash' of various grey hues over them in an attmept to replicate vans as they would have appeared 1964/65 - the last applied UTA grey livery fading to reveal the old GNR one. There is a photo somewhere of a wagon at Adelaide (late in the day I think), where the UTA applied grey has peeled/faded, revealing the letters "B&CDR" underneath!