legin

Thanks a lot, Cypherman, I was a bit worried about the suggestion of oiling the plastic spacers on the axles, and so now I won't.

Hi, all, Many thanks for your replies ( and links) re "plastic pickups" on the Class 4. I think the lockdown must have been causing a brainstorm. That said, I have only one split chassis loco and they were, until Cypherman, a bit of a mystery. What I should have been talking about, I think now, was wear on the stub axle journals ( David Broad) and "wear on the chassis guides in the chassis half blocks " ( The Johnster), which I think may be the same thing. So keeping those clean and lubricated is essential but with oil used sparingly. Also the type and quality of the oil is important. I have some rather expensive hypodermic syringe oil from the local model shop which doesn't have a name on it but which the repair guy, whose room is like Steptoe and Son for those of a certain vintage, uses it himself, and I have seen probably well over 200 locos, in total, awaiting repair and/or conversion there, so I assume he knows what he is talking about. And it is ok, probably essential, to lube the plastic centre sections of the axles as well. Hope I have got this right.

Sorry, forgot to add this. I have had great difficulty in driving in the trackpins into the plywood and even more getting them out.. So much so that quite a few pieces of track and all points are screwed down. My solution would be hardboard nailed to the plywood but I haven't tried this as it would mean taking up all the track which has taken light years to get right. Has anyone done this and if so, would the hardboard tend to warp and so defeat the object of the exercise?

This may be a bit off topic but is a question on mainline split chassis pickups. I have a Class 4, bought in the 1980s new but which up until 3 years ago, and after a years running 30 years ago, was in a box. Straight out of that box, with a bit of lube added, the loco, converted to DCC, has run perfectly. No sign of Mazak rot either. However, I still have the original instructions which state that, from time to time, the keeper plate should be removed and a drop of oil put on the plastic pickups. I have done this but I read with horror above that the oil contributes to the deterioration of the pickups. Are the manufacturers wrong about this and have we learned from long experience? And if the pickups are not lubricated, surely this would lead to dry plastic to metal contact which would cause deterioration quickly. Any thoughts gratefully received. Nigel

For what it's worth, I have an 8 x4 baseboard which is 2 cm plywood. This is supported round the outside by 4.5 x 2cm softwood bracing with 2 extra bracing struts at equal intervals along the length. I have had this for 3 years and it works very well. For part of the year, as dictated by the Domestic Authorities, this is removed to a vertical position for storage. It is very heavy. However, I have had no suggestion of warping at all and the layout runs perfectly at all times. I think that over-engineering the baseboard and supports is the best idea, despite the weight. 8 x 4 might seem quite small, but I have 90 feet of track on it including 22 points, so it is extremely complicated to work and therefore interesting.

I am just a bit concerned at the predominance of people who are advocating code 75 over code 100 on the basis of how the track will look. Most things will run on code 75 but not all. It depends on whether or not you value reliable running for all your stock over appearance. What you don't want is good looking track and rough running/derailments, because this is the frustrating and annoying part. Changing loco wheelsets is easy for those who have done a lot of it but foreign to many others, unfortunately including me. If you are happy to invest the time and money, fair enough. Wheels on rolling stock should generally not be a problem unless as shown on a you tube video I have lost track of, it is old Triang, in which case, there is much fiddling about and rebushing if I can remember it correctly. My track is all code 100, made up of Hornby setrack from the 1980s including some second radius points, some new Peco setrack, including points, and Peco flexitrack from the 80s. I have a number of locos from the 1980s, Mainline, Lima, Aifix and Hornby and items of rolling stock dating from the 60s to the 80s, including one or two Triang. All of them, without any modifications, will negotiate all parts of the track including all 22 points, mostly old Hornby, some of which have modified check rails. So I think it may be ease of use/ reliability versus appearance for you.

Hi, Chris, I'm not sure if this will help at all given David's and others very thorough ideas about how the layout should be run. My own interest in model railways is, however, not so much in the building and repairing, but in running them to a sequence and a time, but not a timetable.. My template is at Midford Station on the old SDJR, where the 1948 timetable is displayed at full size. Having taken several photos of this, because I live 100 miles away, I then had some idea about the trains which were run in those days. The timetable included goods trains. My first train of the day is therefore the 2. 40 a.m goods to either Evercreech Junction or Templecombe-I can't remember which without finding my old table. Do not get up at this time. Then I picked out some other trains so as to give a balanced idea of what should be running- goods to Evercreech and Templecombe from Bath and back, Milk Templecombe to Bath, Mail to Bournemouth, Coal Templecombe to Bath, Express Passenger Bath to Bournemouth, (supposed to be the first and last legs of the Pines Express respectively) and with a number of local passengers interspersed to different destinations. So I agree entirely that the best first port of call is an original timetable. I have 7 train sets and 8 locos but 2 are just shunters. I drew up a sequence table with train number, type, stock, from and to, stops, engine, and a big space for notes at the end. Fourteen trains in all, which with all the shunting and loco turning, takes several hours to complete. You can do it in bits. I then drew up another table of timings. Although I have 2 stop watches, I find it impossible to keep track of multiple trains and so the timings are based not on distance but how long a particular train is going for. So the Express is timed at 6 minutes Bath to Evercreech and stop and a further 6 minutes Evercreech to Bournemouth, but one minute less on the return.The stopping passengers are 6 minutes bath to Evercreech, 2 minutes Evercreech to Templecombe, and 5 minutes Temple to Bournemouth, total 13 mins and so on.. The clock is stopped at stations and where there has to be a signal stop ( or an accident!). Because the layout is relatively small, trains travel at between a scale 10 mph for goods and 20 for passenger. I have a 1952 publication by Henry Greenly (written for Trix Twin which I used to have) about all this, and there are some interesting chapters about sequencing, marshalling of wagons in order, dropping some wagons and coaches at different destinations and of course collecting them. What is essential is that all stock must, at the end of the session, be back where it started, and where a loco is at A then to get to B it has to travel there either on a train or light. I got the book from the Trix website for next to nothing and the guy running it had one or two left when I purchased 3 years ago. I don't suppose they are in great demand. Nigel

If you can go bigger than 2nd radius, I would. I have an inner circuit of Peco 2nd radius and an outer of about 3rd radius flexitrack. I have a whole variety of locos from new to 30 years old. Although my Hornby 2P is said to be ok for 2nd radius and above, it has repeatedly shed its traction tyres on second radius, particularly the inner tyre. My Airfix Royal Scot, 30 years old, is jumping slightly when traversing the 2nd radius. My Mainline class 4 also seems to be grinding slightly on the inner curves. All of these locos are fine on the outer radius. So whereas the manufacturers might say that your locos are fine on second radius, maybe they should say that they are sort of fine. I know what has been said above about flexitrack and second radius and broadly I agree. However, if you use this and have space for lets say a 2.5 radius, it might make all the difference. A Tracksetta would be fairly essential.

Hi, Philip, I agree about graphite. It's very slippery, but after having to clean the track before every session without the graphite, I haven't had to do it for months now with it. Swings and roundabouts.. I mentioned it to Sir Topham as a downside, for me at least, of running without traction tyres. Even so, I have an Airfix 4F, tender drive of course, which has 6 traction tyres on the tender but which slips badly in places with a moderate load. I think the trick is to try to confine it as far as possible to the points and then to remove it from the remainder of the track, particularly curves, from time to time. Nigel

If this is any use, I have a Hornby loco drive 2p which kept shedding its traction tyre on the left front driver, despite the fact that it was never run on anything less than 2nd radius curves which are supposed to be ok for it. Last year, I took both left and right side tyres off and ran the loco without. My layout is DCC and I have 22 points. Not once has it shorted out on any of the points which are a mix of 30 year old Hornby, new insulfrog Peco and 30 year old Peco electrofrog. It did however tend to buck slightly over the old Hornby points, but so do some of the other locos.. This year I have added graphite to the track, mainly for the o-6-os on insulfrog points and the 2P struggles without the tyres on some of the curves when pulling 3 coaches or more. So- the loco works well with small exceptions. If it were heavier, I doubt if it would slip at all.

Hi, David, I wondered the same thing and last night took out the motor unit and looked at it with a magnifying glass. I couldn't see a gap between the plastic drive cog attached to the wheel and the frame. So with the gearing removed, I eased the B2B out from about 14.2 to 14.5 and the wheels spun freely. That is a bit of a catch 22, because of the tender wheels binding on curves when its at 14.5, and it had started again to pickup intermittently. So now it goes quite well overall, except that a lot of power needs to be applied before it will start, and then it can be backed off. What I couldn't really understand was that when the tender was moved from side to side on the rails, the wheels were not far off sliding down onto the sleepers with he B2B at about 14.2 but when I opened them up to 14.5, there was still play between wheels and track but the flanges were much closer to the rail and it picked up power much better. Andy G is kindly sending me one of his unwanted Crab tenders so I can do a direct comparison. I am quite determined to get to the bottom of this because I think now that just a small problem need to be fixed before the loco runs perfectly and it would be rather a shame to give up after all the help I have had. Another point is that, despite the loco driving wheels moving freely by hand, I was a bit suspicious that on the curves, the wheels might somehow be responsible for the slowing down, rather than it being a fault with the tender. Pushing the loco (tender removed) by hand showed that it would freewheel for some distance by itself. So with the loco minus tender, I hauled it round the track at crawl speed with one of my DCC locos to see if it would slow down or stall on the curves. It did neither, and so the loco itself is free running and any fault lies with the tender. Nigel

Two points: (pardon the pun) First, I have a problematic Lima Crab which has featured quite a lot on these pages recently and which would not move properly on the track nor go over dead frogs. The rear tender pickup wheel was not picking up power from the rails but would respond occasionally to power to the wheel in the cradle. It had not been used since 1988 when nearly new. So the rear tender wheels were removed and thoroughly cleaned with isopropyl as was the wiper which was making good contact. It still did not work. so the offending wheels were again removed and this time sanded with 180 grit paper. It then worked. The motto of this is that with a loco which has not seen use for a long time might well have badly oxidised wheels and wipers which need some brute force cleaning. Not all plain sailing though, because when I redid the B2Bs to the correct width, it became a bad runner again but widening them to 14.5mm, despite the thick flanges, did the trick. But it binds on curves which is another story. Second, I have a Hornby 2P (DCC) on which the traction tyres kept coming off on 2nd radius curves, so I took them off. The result is that the loco runs normally and does not short out on any of my 22 points or anywhere else, despite the groove in the wheel. So at least from my own experience, I can't see any danger in what has been suggested above.

A bit late in the day for this reply, but I have recently discovered a whole host of problems with my Lima Crab which I bought in 1987 or thereabouts and which has done to date only about 9 months running. I have received enormous help from members on the forum to get the loco going properly and it's under this part of the forum entitled "tender pickup" if that's any use. The main problem was that although the motor ran well when power was applied directly to it, and it ran when power was applied to the front tender pickup wheels, it was not moving or not moving well when power was applied to the other set of tender wheels. I had cleaned the wheel front and back with isopropyl, so it was clean-or so I thought. But I had to remove the rear axle wheels and sand them with 180 grit paper to properly get rid of oxidisation which had built up and which the isopropyl would not touch. Now it works. I did the same with the wiper tip. So if the loco has not had any use for some time, it seems clear that these brass amalgam wheels are prone to this. I also eased out the B2Bs slightly so that the wheel rim outer face would contact the rail better, though this did lead to some binding on the curves.

Hi, David, I have narrowed the B2B on the tender rear wheels, as suggested to slightly below 14.5mm but I only have a 14.5 gauge and so it's a bit of guesswork. The front tender wheels are the same. The rear wheels no longer revolve freely now though, which was the case before I first removed them. It's not a wheel problem because I swapped the front and back axles and wheels around and the original front wheels were revolving freely. However, despite my misgivings that narrowing the B2B of the rear wheels would lead to pickup difficulties, it has not, and the loco is still negotiating the dead frog points ok. It also seems to be getting round the curves better without significant slowing and so what you said about the B2Bs being important has been borne out. My loco has and has always had screws to fix the ends of the drawbar to the loco and tender so I will attempt to get hold of a small spring for the tender end. I had seen this article when I was looking for solutions to get the Crab running but it appeared to me to deal with the loco centre drivers and mine seem to be ok. I was a bit surprised at what was said by someone about the 7F, which was classified as being able to haul 10 coaches unassisted over the Mendips-2 more than any other loco apart from the 9Fs! The downside was their riding qualities at higher speeds. Nigel

Hi, David. Thanks for this. I shall have a look again at the tender wheel B2Bs and tweek them inwards slightly to see if that makes a difference on the curves. As I said before, I don't think it's to do with the actual loco wheels, since I have not altered these at all and they turn freely by hand. I have just had to alter this post because I thought you were referring to springs under the drawbar retaining screws. The thin sprung wire connecting the 2 drawbar screw is till there. However, the guy from the shop, when he was converting to DCC 3 years ago obviously lost the spring which goes under the drawbar attaching screw to the loco itself and he has replaced this with another. But there is no similar spring under the tender fixing screw so that when it is done up, the drawbar is held rigid at that end (the tender end). Do you know if there should be a spring under this screw to enable the tender to pivot on the drawbar? Dead frogs: I have recently become a devotee of graphite, even though it causes some of my locos to slip occasionally. However, the running, particularly the 0-6-0s over the dead frogs is excellent and all my locos will now crawl at less than walking pace. So the Crab is now having no trouble, despite its relative lack of pickups, in getting over the dead frogs. Apologies for getting you mixed up with uax6-Andy. I think it was because there were such a lot of posts. And I have just been to Specsavers which obviously hasn't worked! Nigel