Wordsmith

So I built myself a 5 ft x 2 ft 6" baseboard over Xmas and am now slowly laying track on it. I can get 14" radius curves, which is probably closer to what would go onto a more permanent layout. (9" radius curves were too tight for my Schools loco). I'm laying the track on 0.8 mm thick cork just to see what difference that makes. If I get all the track laid this month, the plan for February is to get an occupancy detector and try and figure out how that and JMRI work. Much head scratching in prospect. Couple of questions in the meantime if I may. How often do the major manufacturers redo production runs? for example, if a steam loco goes out of stock, how long before they run off another few hundred/thousand? How easy is it to renumber steam locos? There's only a limited range of RTR locos for the era I'm interested in, so if I buy several of the same model, they'll need renumbering. Is it practicable to do it yourself. (I note The Model Centre do it for £50, which is a cost I'd like to avoid if possible). Cheers, Wordsmith

Link wiring is essentially directly taking the power from one rail to another, rather than from a power bus. Not the best of diagrams, but you could essentially power a siding by wires from the mainline rails. But @KingEdwardII has given me the answer. If you use link wiring, occupancy detection won't work as it wouldn't detect if the train is on the main line or in the siding. Another lesson learned - thanks... Wordsmith

Thanks both - I've put trying out MTB MP1 point motors on my 'to do' list. Another question if I may... I've got the little Peco 'Wiring the Layout' booklet. And they have a section on using link wiring as an alternative to drop feeds. So I rewired the sidings on my little experimental layout in that manner. That resulted in less wiring under the baseboard because the sidings are no longer directly connected to the power bus; essentially they're getting their power from the head shunt drop feeds, and the link wiring is overcoming the self-isolating feature on the points. I can see that power transmission becoming more of an issue as you are more dependent on the rails conducting it (although I assume you could solder the metal rail joiners in place on a permanent layout to help improve the conductivity). Are there any pitfalls to using link wiring? Cheers, Wordsmith

Ah thanks - got them working. Remarkably simple when you know what to do. It's the figuring out what to do from a low starting point of knowledge that's more difficult. Only problem I now have is that Traintronics seen to have become a Covid 19 casualty and are no longer trading. Are there any other slow motion point motors with built in decoders? The obvious candidate from a bit of Googling would seem to be a Cobalt digital IP. My gut feel (and I stand to be corrected) is that built in decoders will mean marginally less wiring under the baseboard (and less embuggeration). Cheers, Wordsmith

Thanks all for the above comments - I wanted this to be a future retirement hobby that made me think. And it's certainly going to make me do that. I'm beginning to experience the gulf between what you can pick up from books/the Internet and what practical experience can teach you. As to stopping distances, etc., I've found out that you can program acceleration and deceleration rates, etc, into a loco, so that's also on my list of things to play with in the near future. The hobby has come on a long way since I built DC layouts as a teenager.... Wordsmith

My ignorance is showing - thanks for the info. So now I need to figure out how to get my DR5000 command station to talk to the point motors - which looks fairly simple. The other thing I wanted to use the DR4018 for was to turn sections of track on/off as an experiment. I figured if a loco was moving extremely slowly when it hit a dead section of track, it would stop in a fairly precise location - a step towards computer controlled shunting. One of the many things I want to try out - at first by using a manual on/off switch and seeing how reproducible the stopping point is. Wordsmith

Hi Mike, Yep - I'm using electrofrog points. I'm planning to model the SR in the 1930's. And as a lot of that was tank engine based, I didn't want the locos stalling on insulfrog points. And yep, insulating rail joiners over the place. One of the many lessons I've learned is to wire as you go along and then run an engine along the new section of track - that way you find problems early and avoid a lot of re-wiring/adding more insulating rail joiners. :o( I have Traintronics TT300 point motors that I'm planning to run via a Digikeijs DR4018 module, although I've yet to figure out how to use it. That's next on the list. Cheers, Wordsmith

So - made a little bit more progress and now have things running on my little 4 ft x 2 ft trial baseboard. Although the first thing I found was Dapol Schools locos don't like running round 9" radius curves. So I'll be building a slightly 5 ft x 2 ft 6 inch baseboard (and 12" radius curves) when I've exhausted the learning potential of this one. :o( But now understand how to wire the track correctly. (Bit of trial and error - mainly error). A couple more questions if I may. Is it worth pre-planning wiring runs and then putting in the feeder wire positions accordingly? For a small test layout like mine, I might have been better to run the power bus along the inside of the timber frame with spurs to the different feeder wire locations. Plus, I ended up taking the power feed from my command station and splitting it into two feeds: one to the oval of track/passing loops and one to the head shunt/sidings (which were isolated behind a pair of insulating rail joiners [facing points] to prevent a short circuit). Which, in turn, suggests on a larger layout, you're going to end up with 'sub-buses' going to different electrically isolated areas of the layout. Chuck in another power bus for points, signals, etc., and I can foresee rather complex wiring needed for a larger layout. Finally, is it worth laying think cork under the track bed to deaden the noise a little? I was slightly surprised how much of a sounding board MDF made. Again, thanks in advance for the answers. Wordsmith (Next stage is getting a few point motors working from the command station. More head-scratching in store...)

Thanks both - will experiment. I hadn't realised how slow, painstaking and a PITA laying track accurately was. One reason I'm happy to make any mistakes on a small test layout first... Wordsmith

Another question for the experts to answer. I'm using Peco code 55 flexible track. It's not very keen to be bent into curves of 9" or 12" radius. Or in staying (prior to pinning) in something approximating the Tracksetta curve. Is there a trick to making it more flexible - for example by cutting more gaps in the webbing underneath? Or is it a case of bending it to shape with a Tracksetta curve, putting some panel pins outside of the track to keep it roughly in place, and then pinning it? Advice welcome.... Wordsmith

Thanks both - I got some of the Peco track pins; they were smaller diameter than what I had. Which, with a small hand drill, enables me to get the track down neatly without splitting the sleepers. I've also found I can solder the dropper wires on neatly using crocodile clips to hold the wire in the required position on the track first That leaves me one hand for the soldering iron and one for the solder wire. I get on better using flux-less solder and painting on the rosin flux by hand. I hadn't realised how painstaking tracklaying would prove to be - it's slow motion work that requires a lot of patience. Which, in a way, makes me glad I'm building a test layout first. I can make my mistakes on that before I try and build a real layout. Every day's a school day... Wordsmith

Hi both - the problem is that the width of a sleeper is not enough to accept a track pin. The baseboard isn't a problem - it's MDF. Having thought about it, I think I'll try drilling a tiny pilot hole in the sleeper first. It'll split when I hammer the pin in, but hopefully the pin will still fix the track in place. I'm planning to glue track down on any permanent layout I construct, but the current baseboard is just for experiments. Cheers, Wordsmith

So, another question I hope someone can give some help on. Is there any practical alternative to gluing Peco code 55 down? I've tried pinning it with track pins, but that doesn't look to be a roaring success. I was hoping not to have to glue it down, because I wanted to experiment a bit with with different types of points, introducing gradients, etc, as time goes by. But pinning is not particularly successful, particularly on the 9" radius curves I'm trying to put in just to get something running on my 4 ft x 2 ft baseboard. Thanks.... Wordsmith

Got it thanks, plus one or two books on railway electrics downloaded onto my Kindle. To learn, I really need to start playing with stuff... Wordsmith

Firstly thanks to @jamespetts for the detailed reply. Very helpful.... This will be a bit of a slow motion reply as I'm not planning to build much until I retire, to it's really learn the techniques and gradually stock-up with the rolling stock, track and points. Having not tried this for over 40 years, the initial impression is how much the technology has changed. In terms of the logic of wiring, it was relatively easy to wire up an old DC type layout. Lots of wires, but conceptually fairly straightforward to do. DCC is rather different. I downloaded some books from Kindle to refresh my memory, gradually accumulated enough rolling stock, track and points to build the test layout and am now starting to learn how to so do. The first thing I've learned is that the manufacturer's instructions (locos, command stations, etc) are pretty basic - so rummaging around on the web, reading the Kindle books etc., let me find out some more. So, for instance, I've found you can program some of the running characteristics of the locos; speed with which they'll accelerate and brake, maximum speed and so on. So, when time permits in a day or so, I'll have a play on my programming track and find out how to do that. I've also found out that the Digikeijs DR4018 is actually quite a complicated little beast and can be programmed to do quite a lot. So I need to get it to pre-set 6 (slow motion point motors), and get it operating my point motors via the command station and my PC. (Theoretically I can get it to run a combination of point motors, signals and whatever, but I'll learn to do that further down the road). [The Digikeijs DR4024 is on my metal roadmap for the future - I'm assuming the programming logic for servos will be broadly similar to the 4018] When I've sussed out how to control the point motors, it's then a case of getting some track and points down onto my baseboard to construct a test layout. Objective one is just to get manually controlled trains running round the track with manually controlled point motors. And with track that doesn't cause a derailment every 5 minutes; which means I have to find out how to lay N gauge track neatly - and wire it correctly. (It'll be wired in such a way that I can try occupancy detection next - nothing fancy - just see what's where). As to jamespetts' comments about the difficulties of python programming for JMRI; I work with a load of computer nerds. Providing Covid 19 lets me get back into the office, I can probably get them to critique my scripting - they write a lot of stuff in python and other scripting languages. My laptop is Linux (Ubuntu) anyway. One of the reasons I'd like to play with JMRI is it'll make me learn Python - I find just following exercises in a textbook boring. Working out how to do things for a real world purpose gives purpose to the learning. To be honest, it's the problem solving that interests me most - I like puzzling things out. And there's a lot to work out. You can obviously do a lot with DCC/computer control - but at the moment, I'm at the very bottom of the learning curve. Wordsmith

Thanks both - the 10 amp power supply idea was me being a biff. You've saved me from watching assorted bit of electronics send out smoke signals...

So, the next stage is to build a small test layout on a temporary 4 ft x 2 ft baseboard I have. I’m not intending anything fancy at this stage – just a layout I can control a couple of locos and some points on. I want to work out how to do things a bit at a time… This is the basic layout: The loop at the rear is intended the represent the staging roads of a full-sized layout; the loop at the front, head shunt and couple of sidings, an eventual station. I also intend to try magnetic decouplers in the sidings to start getting an idea about the accuracy of the intended eventual automated shunting possibilities. I have a Digikeijs DR 4018 module for the point motor control and Tortoise TT300 point motors for the points themselves. I have Peco PL-25 magnetic uncouplers to play with – but will experiment with other brands if required. I will put in the rail breaks and wiring such that I can experiment with track occupancy at a later stage – using a Digikeijs DR5088RC Digidetect module. At a rough count, that will require 9 independently powered sections of track coming off a power bus; 4 in the loop areas, 2 in the semi-circles of track, 1 in the head shunt and 2 in the sidings, with the appropriate insulators to stop shorts across the points. In the short term, I can connect sections together – for example, so I have a complete circuit of track to run locos round/run them in. I know I’ll need insulating fishplates for the points to stop short circuits there when they switch from one lot of track to another. This has also thrown up a few questions – if you don’t mind, I’ll pick your brains. Power Supplies The Digikeijs modules run off a minimum of 12 volts DC and a maximum of 18 volt DC power supply. The DR5000 manual suggests a voltage drop of 1.5 volts for that unit, so does that suggest its worth running the individual modules off their own 15-volt DC supply. The Peco uncouplers run off 16 volts AC. A small layout, like the one I’m experimenting with isn’t going to require a lot of power, but the full size I’m aiming for I will – quite a few Digikeijs modules to power. Does that suggest it’s worth investing in something like a 15-volt DV, 10-amp power supply to power the DC stuff, and the smaller equivalent to power the AC stuff; distributing the power as required via a bus under the baseboard? Wiring So, if I understand this correctly, I’m going to end up with two three busses under the baseboard; the DCC power bus to carry the signal from the command station to the track, a second DCC power bus to carry the signal to the auxiliary equipment such as points and signals and a third bus (or busses) to carry power (e.g. 15 volts) to the varying Digikeijs modules that control all the auxiliary stuff. I also need small dropper wires to takes the power to the different sections of the track from the main DCC power bus. There’s a bewildering amount of advice on wire types and diameters to use in the internet, but does the below seem reasonable? Power buses and 15-volt supply: 24/0.2 mm cable (24 strands x 0.2 mm) Run from main power bus to auxiliary equipment and close to track: 12 or 16/0.2 cable Dropper wires from track: short lengths of 0.7 mm dia solid copper wire from track to underneath baseboard (intended to be inconspicuous). Again, OTT for a small layout, but I’m looking ahead to building something more complex. Thanks in advance for the advice…

So, not having done any railway modelling for 50 odd years, and with a very new technology to hand (DCC), I’m trying to learn in stages – each stage building on the one before. Exercise 1 was to fire up a Digikeijs command station, connect it to a programming track and run a loco up and down it. The command station went OK, as did the running of the loco, but sorting out the programming track was an indication of the learning curve… For N gauge, hacksawing the track is not accurate enough – I’ve brought some track cutters. I need to improve my soldering skills. I got the wires soldered to the track, but it was far from neat – and not the quality of soldering that would guarantee a trouble-free layout. So, I’ve brought a glass fibre brush to rough up the rails a bit, plus I found a little book in Kindle on how to solder properly. Track pins are unsightly in N gauge – the track will have to be glued down when I get to build my permanent layout. The track I’m using in test layouts will have to be reused (if suitable) in the staging area.

Well you can't fault Digikeijs on service. I ordered a command station and a switching decoder from them on Sunday and they turned up at lunchtime today (Wednesday). Need to start building some temporary layouts on the baseboard I've got to start out figuring how they work now... Then I guess the credit card gets dented again shortly... Wordsmith

Thanks for all the comments. Opinions appear divided, so I guess an ounce of practise is worth a ton of theory. I'll buy the Digikeijs stuff and see how I get on. A couple more questions if I may? 1. Some steam locos come DDC ready, but not fitted. How difficult is it to fit the decoders to such loco's? N gauge ones are fairly small. 2. Are these addon kits - such as this from Langley models - practical propositions in N gauge? I can envisage needing to work under a magnifying lamp, but it would extend the range of locos outside of the 'ready to run' range. https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/product&path=208_219&product_id=5072 Cheers, Wordsmith

Hi all – a bit of thread resurrection going on. A change in job role, Covid 19 and a few other problems got in the way. So, to reiterate, my intent was to do a bit of railway modelling when I retire in about 2 ½ years, the aim being to build a steam age, computer-controlled N scale DCC layout. Before then I have a 4 ft x 2 ft baseboard with the intent to just lay some track and learn the technical side of it. I have a couple of locos plus carriages, wagons, track, points, etc to play with. The full-scale layout comes when I retire… So, I need to buy a control station and other electronics to wire up a test layout. After re-reading this thread, watching up a few videos and doing some other research on the internet I came up with the following – everything coming from Digikeijs (https://www.digikeijs.com/en/) as they seem to do almost everything I need and get good reviews. So, to start, I would need to buy: DR5000 - DCC multi-bus command station as the nerve centre DR4018 switch decoder to control points DR5088RC feedback module for track occupancy – which is Railcom capable That lets me control locos and points, plus get feedback on what track sections are occupied. Enough to work out the basics of electrical wiring and so on. Cabling uses LocoNet. I will also need RailCom to tell me what’s where – track occupancy just tells me that section is occupied. I have (for example) a Dapol Schools class to play with, but as yet, I’m not sure whether the decoder is RailCom capable. Software wise, I’m planning to JMRI a try. I know some commercial software does more, but this is a retirement hobby and a good excuse to learn the Python scripting language. JMRI will probably stretch my mind a bit more than commercial software – hence me wanting to play with it. If I can’t get JMRI to do what I want it to, I can always give the commercial software a go. As a first move, I plan to build a basic layout on my 4 ft x 2 ft baseboard, probably starting with do more than a circle of track with a passing loop and siding to work out the basics. Then I’ll remove that and add a more complex track arrangement and so on. At the same time, I’ll build a few dioramas to get my hand back in on the scenery side. So, does this make sense? Thoughts and feedback welcome. Then I dent my credit card... Cheers, Wordsmith

Thanks all for the replies - I'll do some Googling based on them to learn a little more. I'm planning for it to be my Xmas present to myself... :o) Wordsmith

Sorry 'bout long posting hiatus - a few things cropped up elsewhere. So, my intent is to build a small layout (no scenery) on a 4ft x 2ft baseboard to get a basic idea of how DCC and computer control work. So If I wanted to buy a DCC controller suitable for experiments with computer control and which I could later used on a larger layout (say 30 - 40 points and a dozen locos), what would anyone recommend? I'm planning to get the DCC side of things worked out first, then play with computer control as phase 2. Caveat emptor on the choice of DCC controller - my call and my risk... Cheers, Wordsmith

I always anticipated that shunting would be be pushing it, especially for N gauge. Some parts appear more difficult than others. For example: Loco come in off main line with wagons for shunting, goes into head shunt, then reverses in sorting siding. It can then detach itself from the wagons by moving extremely slowly forward again over an activated magnetic de-coupler. Ditto the shunting engine splitting (say) 12 wagons into groups of four: same method - forward slowly over magnetic de-coupler and leave unwanted wagons behind. The problem would seem to occur with sorting single wagons - positioning accuracy needed would seem to be +/- 2 mm. I'm coming back in to this as a hobby after 50 odd years, so I can only make wild guesses as to what is possible, but I'm hoping it will be possible to start with basics - drop off 12 wagons/pick up 12 wagons - and gradually push the boundaries. (I like problem solving - we'll see if I've bitten off more than I can chew). Wordsmith

Thanks all for previous replies. I can see the logic of using Railcom to set up a feedback loop. I'd idly set my sights of coming up with a computer controlled layout, and without some sort of feedback, debugging an hour's program of train movements to find the error in the code might be a PITA. Incidentally, I've just watched some of the videos, which gave me an idea of what you could you could do with computer control - particularly with Jame's video, which showed some shunting movements. A distant ambition is to shunt a small (mid 1930's) goods yard automatically, which I suspect might be pushing the limits of the technology. On first reading, I got the impression that DCC used a single protocol, but I found this on Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Command_Control So how compatible ate the different system with one another? And is it a case of picking a DCC manufacturer and sticking with it, and can there be a degree of mix and match? Finally, how tied is the choice of accessories (such as decoders) to the choice of DCC controller? Will decoder's from manufacturers A, B and C, work with DCC manufacturer X, or will manufacturer X's stuff only work reliably with Decoder A? Thanks in advance for the replies - this thread is proving educational. Wordsmith