mark54

Pity they have the no smoking section at the wrong end too. It should be the first 2 windows at the other end. There was an internal partition between the 2nd and 3rd bays. There was no partition in the 4-window end!

It's a typo. Looking at the Supplement to CWN Loco-Hauled Trains London (Western) Southern & Western for summer 1961, on Saturdays only in the Restaurant & Buffet Car workings, the 12:30 Exeter-Waterloo is listed with RMB 1849.

Indeed not correct for any of the numbers that have been used for any of the versions. They are all for the 60ft type. Somebody at Oxford Rail has probably got muddled up and used the length over buffers to come up with the 60ft length of the model!

Unless my eyes are deceiving me, there is something horribly wrong with the BSK. It's been produced in mirror image, with the corridor and compartments/toilet on the wrong sides!!!

J5556 from the formation was the 09:20 Newcastle-KX J5559 from the formation was the 10:10 KX-Leeds

8B40 was the 12:18SX Whitemoor-Hitchin 1B66 was the 13:35 KX-Cambridge, going by the RMB in the formation and the light. If 1B66 was on time, 8B40 must have been running about an hour late.

Catching up with Buffet Cars on the GN D.167 vehicle weights - S9134E from a photo has an end plate with 35T. That was a rebuilt vehicle, so I don’t know whether that had an impact. However the Carriage Working Notices appear to have the D.167 buffets listed at 34 tons whether in original or rebuilt condition. Finally please scrub reference to 37 tons. My mistake. Apologies! Finally when scanning through the carriage workings I noticed a 24 seat 39T RB in the summer 1960 10:28 KX_Hull/Scarborough. Possibly one of the Thompson rebuilds? (38T is the weight noted in the 1974 RCTS Coaching Stock booklet) D.258 The Carter assertion that they went into general service in 1958 is almost certainly wrong. I have a scan from the Kew National Archive of ER notes of a meeting held on 26/06/58 at York where it is stated that these cars and the Thompson buffet lounges had been out of service since withdrawal from the Flying Scotsmen and Elizabethan and had been offered to the Scottish Region. However the ER rescinded the offer as there was difficulty releasing buffet cars for the modernisation programme and these 4 cars were included as part of the 10 authorised in 1957. D.275 These were classified RB/RU by BR and they weighed over 41 tons according to the diagram. As the Carriage Working Notices are only as good as the day they were printed, it is possible an amendment was made for the 16:05 KX-York in 1958 but it doesn't appear to have lasted long if is right.

1E26 was the 14:05 St Pancras-Sheffield J4154 looks like 1C76 15:54 Derby-St Pancras, which would fit in with the above although the formation doesn't match the CWN. However many MML formations were amended in Jan 1975. J4904 from the formation was possibly the 13:05 St Pancras-Sheffield J5301 from the formation was the 16:40SX St Pancras-Nottingham. Note the RMB which was unusual for the MML.

A standard D.167 would be unlikely. Only the prototype was 33 tons (the diagram shows it with GN-style 3 part sliding lights) and it was allocated to the NE area. The later main batch weighed 35 to 37 tons. These were uncommon on the GN until the early 1960s when rebuilt ones appeared. The 10 original GN area Tourist D.168 cars 9144-53 all weighed 33 tons. Mousa Models do etched sides.

J5986 from the formation was the Friday 08:53 Bradford-KX (which had a 6th TSO). The last 4 coaches started from Halifax at 08:40 and were attached at Wakefield.

The RB in the 4:15pm down is listed as a 24 seat 33 ton vehicle, so my guess would be that it was a D.168 Tourist Buffet Car. The RKB in the 6:45pm down was a 1953 BR conversion from a D.16 Gresley RT. There were 3 such conversions E9063/4/5E and they had 4 seats and weighed 39 tons. The two saloon windows adjacent to the pantry were panelled over to allow for the buffet bar counter. I'm not sure how the 4 seats were arranged in the 2 end window bays.

1E78 Can't find any reference to this. Not a usual ECML reporting number, so probably an extra. J3703 (assuming 1S17 was taken the same day) would be 1E17 the 10:45 Aberdeen-KX, The Aberdonian. 4V73 was the Edinburgh FLT to Cardiff FLT.

A possibility is the summer months formation of 1A11 the 08:25SO Newcastle-KX, which matches closely except for the FK at the front. Very unusual to have 31-haulage though, I would have thought.

J2770 from the formation was 1E13 the summer dated 11:50SO Edinburgh-KX. The brakes are listed in the CWN as BSOs and the 2 CK near the back should be SK but no doubt this low ranking ECML set and got what was near-enough from the pool of available stock. The formation of 1L13 indicates it is the Saturday train, although interestingly a Mk2a (or Mk2b) FK that should have been marshalled out for the Saturday train is substituting for a Mk2d TSO. I don't think J3999 was the Skegness train from the formation. Do you have any idea of the time of day the photo was taken?

6E47 the 13:46 Fish from Aberdeen to Kings Cross Goods and 6S64 return empties at 14:30 to Millerhill were withdrawn on 05/01/1976 according to Supplement No.4 to the May 1975 ECML WTT

C4306 from the formation could have been the 20:05SO Aberdeen-KX. That was the only service with 6 sleepers followed by a BG that I can see in the CWN. The 20:20SX had 8 sleepers or 7 on Fridays. Other coaches were 2 (SO) or 3 (SX) Motorail GUV's. C4249 from the formation and the winter afternoon sunlight was probably the 12:35 Hull-KX

G was the headcode for a special train local to the ER

Not according to the exploded diagram of a Mk2d FO on page 68 in the Harris book British Rail Mark 2 Coaches. It is labelled "Access panel to air conditioning fan unit"

The first Air-Con coaches introduced on the MML were in the Master Cutler on the 07/04/1975. According to the June 1975 Railway Observer the following stock was provided - Mk2f FO M3438/9, TSO M5971, M6183/4, BSO M9534 + Mk2d FK M13610 although M6184 was not used during the first week. M3438/9, M6183/4 were the highest numbered of their type and were probably brand new/or near new when introduced on the train.

1L20 was the 14:20 KX-York. The formation indicates it was the Saturday train and as the CWN ended on the 2nd May and the formation changed. Logically it must have been 1st May 1971. 1L13 was the 11:30 KX-Harrogate. Again formation indicates the Saturday train (and presumably a later date than 1L20). 1S32 was the 12:00 KX-Aberdeen

I think in that pre-production example, Hornby have the body on the wrong way round in relation to the under frame

Yes the 2 FOs adjacent to the RU had meal-at-seat service to passengers. As Robert mentioned, the third FO should have been between the RB & RU. It is noted in the CWN that low seat numbers (18 seats) should be marshalled adjacent to the RB and were for 1st class passengers and high seat numbers (10-21) were for the Restaurant Car Dept i.e. fluid dining. One possibility is that no FO was available at short notice but to keep 1st class numbers up, a FK was used. This would have been unsuitable to be marshalled between the RB & RU, so was inserted further back.

1A03 was the summer dated 07:20SuO 07:20 Bradford-KX. 1S32 was the 12:00 KX-Aberdeen - The Aberdonian

1D14 was the 16:50 St Pancras-Nottingham (the second coach is an early diagram Mk1 open second without centre doors). 1C64 was the 14:55 Nottingham-St Pancras.

1A21 was the 11:00 Newcastle-KX. The return working was the 17:05 KX-Newcastle via Sunderland. Interestingly the 5th vehicle is a BG. The first 4 coaches are noted in the Carriage Working Notice as for the use of Durham, Darlington & York passengers. The BG was marked for priority van traffic for intermediate stations in the down direction, so possibly explaining the positioning within the set. 1A20 was the 11:10 Leeds-KX. The return working was the 17:30 KX-Bradford with the last 3 coaches (first 3 in the photo) a Halifax portion.