Despatcher

I was just quite impressed at the speed of the reply! And the fact I got it in two languages. Do any UK manufacturers do that I wonder? I probably won't improve on the "thermally activated ..."! I like that. I had thought of track hardware malfunction! Not sure how a missing plastic separator in an insulating rail joiner would translate! I'm just glad the problem is solved. Thanks.

I sent a query about my problem via the Z21 App to the Roco Fleischman Support Centre on Saturday evening and got a reply this morning which I though was quick. I will share the reply as follows:- Dear Sir/Madam, thank you for your e-mail and your interest in our products. We will gladly try to help you and inform you as follows: What kind of Z21 are you using? What kind of mobile device are you using? What kind of decoder do you want to program? Please close all other programs in the background. Depending on the layout, the APP requires a lot of memory. If many programs are open, performance problems can arise. We hope to have helped you with our answer and wish you continued enjoyment with your hobby - model railways. Kind regards Your Customer Service Team

Many thanks for all your suggestions. After a couple of hours faffing this morning, including cutting a piece of track out to get at the insulated rail joiners, I discovered that the problem was a faulty insulated rail joiner! The plastic separator was missing on one rail only, so I have now reinstalled a new piece of track that I had to cut to size and fit. It had been working perfectly ok for a couple of months as the track has been live that long while I was doing scenics etc. For some reason the rail from the programme track decided to touch the rail from the main track bus across the gap at the same time as I installed the firmware update! Just how much of an amazing coincidence is that! It has been warm down here in Kent recently and the area where my railway is catches the sun in the afternoon. The track was put down in the cold of Winter, I can only assume that the recent warmth caused the expansion of the 0.5mm or probably much less of each rail yesterday. It is working just fine now. I called my Z21 all sorts of names last night but we have made friends again now. I really like it as a controller. I just need to find out if any of the other locos were affected when I was trying to change CVs yesterday and the programming track was half a rail attached to the main track bus! It is a pity the Z21 doesn't shut down or give some sort of warning when that happens as it does when there is a short. Again, many, many thanks. I really do not know what I would do without this forum. I was assuming I needed a new controller at a cost of about £400 instead of a plastic rail joiner at about 4p! Thanks.

I am using the new black app, have been since it arrived ages ago. As far as I know, all I have done is installed a firmware update. Before I did it, it was working perfectly, then it wasn't. Just like that to quote Mr Cooper!!

I use an iPad for controlling my Z21 and occasionally my iPhone. I have done ever since I had the Z21many years ago. Never had a problem. I will have a play with a separate piece of track later. It was on the list of things I had thought of too. I am also going to check the connections to the programme track and the Z21. Thanks.

Z21 Black. Connected to the correct terminals. My track bus is black and red, the programming track wires are grey and orange. It was working perfectly ok before the few minutes it took to do the firmware update. My layout is a decent size end to end but I usually only have one loco trundling when I am programming so I don't know if they all stop. I have had a Z21 for a good number of years now. A big OO Gauge modern image end to end end before this new O gauge, so I am reasonably familiar. Not had anything like this before. However, I shall check all the connections again in the morning. I cannot understand why I have power in the programming track siding yet it won't programme. I have tried different locos. I have also tried programming on main for a loco in the programme siding just in case and still got no reading which I now have on the rest of the layout after reset. Thanks for suggestions so far. At least the reset has restored PoM!

Thanks. Have got Programme on Main back but nothing on the Programme Track apart from power to the loco. As I mentioned it is an isolated siding. Locos happily trundle down it and back, When I try to programme the green programming light comes on and stays locked on but nothing happens. I have to press the button on the front of the Z21 to turn it off. I also lost two points but as they were Cobalts I just had to change the switch to learn mode, operate them, and switch back again. All most off.

How do you do a reset to defaults?

In a moment of what I now see as madness I saw there was a new update for my Z21.Firmware version 1.40 Feb 24 2021. So I downloaded it. I now cannot programme or read anything on the programme track - there is power there, it is an isolated siding and locos trundle quite happily in an out. I can just about programme on the main but it takes hours to read and more often does not read anything - the green programming light just comes on and says on until I press the button on the front of the Z21. It does say it is the first firmware release for the 10870 Z21 XL Series but it seemed to have updates for my ordinary Z21 too. I think Any suggestions, help, anything please? Can I uninstall the update? It was just fine without it. I can control everything as before, the locos, the points. I just cannot "talk" to the locos easily! I had just got to the stage of running my locos on my new Gauge O layout I have been building since just before Lockdown 1 too! Well over a year! What have I done. I need alcohol!!!!

Thank you all for the support, the patience, the time, the kind words and the knowledge. Hopefully all sorted and done now. Phew!!

Thanks to everyone for your advice. As ever very much appreciated. However obvious that was I could not see it initially. Stupid or what?? Yep, altering the power feed to the Hex frog juicer solved the problem. Here it is connected to the red and black track bus from the Z21. The disconnected blue and yellow feeds from the power booster can still be seen. I have changed the feeds to both frog juicers now so the problem has totally gone. There is also a photo of the booster sitting next to the Z21. It is going in the bin!!!!!! I may "wire out" the bus wire from the booster now by simply disconnecting it from the booster and attaching it to the end of the track bus from the Z21. They are about 30cm apart. I will then have the option to wire the Cobalts to the frog wires. Problem solved. Job done. Again, I could not have done this without RM Web. Thanks.

Thanks Nigel, I think that is what I slowly worked out too. All started by looking at the photo of the Frog Juicer that I posted and realising it is powered by blue and yellow wires (the bus circuit from the Roco Booster) and not red and black wires (the track bus circuit from the Z21). I now realise that when a loco was crossing the points and got to the frog, one set of wheels was collecting power from the Z21 and the other collecting power from the Roco Booster via the Frog juicer. Interestingly I had my previous OO gauge layout wired up like that for about 7 seven years without noticing a fault. It was only a pure chance that I stopped my O Gauge Class 03 with all 6 wheels on the frog that I became puzzled. The chances of that happening are slim. I should have bought a lottery ticket. Many thanks. It is amazing sometimes how as experienced (ish) modellers we cannot see the absolutely obvious! And thank goodness fro RM Web!

Many, many thanks for all of that. I am going to try powering one frog juicer from the track bus first, as that is an easy fix. . If that works it will mean just changing the power connections to the two Tam Valley Frog Juicers. Four wires. If that does work and solve the problem I will take the bus circuit from the Roco power booster out. That will mean changing the power feeds to to the 9 Cobalts to the track bus. Fingers crossed!

Many thanks for the replies so far. All useful stuff. The joiners coming off the "eve" are insulated. I'm glad that you have confirmed that the voltage in the frog or "vee" should be the same. I am fairly certain the underside jumpers are not still touching as all 9 points are the same. That would be very careless workmanship!! I also cut them with a thin slitting disc on a Dremel power drill and made sure there were no stray wires and a gap by using a small blade in the gap. Also, f I disconnect the wire from the frog (vee) there is no short and my locos will cross the point, and the now dead frog (vee), on power stored by the on board loco stay alive. I will connect the Frog Juicers to the track bus from the Z21 tomorrow and not the bus from the Roco booster. It would seem logical that that could be the possible cause of the problem. Incidentally, I only used the Tam Valley Frog Juicers with the Cobalts as I knew no better. We all have to start somewhere. The power for the Cobalts is from the Roco Booster bus wire and not track bus from the Z21 too. I might need to change that too and totally do away with the Booster bus wire. It is an old Booster and not compatible with the Z21. On my last layout, I was going to have "power districts" but when the locos ran across the insulated joiners from a "district" powered by the Z21 to a "district" powered by a booster, there was an instant short. I contacted Roco who told me the boosters were not compatible with the Z21. I assumed they would be ok to use for an accessory bus not realising they may have this effect on the power in the frogs. Tomorrow will be interesting.

Looking at the last photo of the frog juicer, I realise that the yellow and blue wires coming into the right hand side of the Frog Juicer are from a Z21 extension. I am wondering that if I power it from the main track bus which is providing 11.6 (amps?) directly from the Z21 it will cure the problem. I will play in the morning this problem has scrambled my brain enough for one day. It would be good if it was that simple! And it would make me pretty stoopid. But we all live and learn!