thanks for your quick reply lain , yes i am on the right web page i will try your suggestion what i did was i came across the itrain web site a few weeks ago and registered it was later that i realised it was a private forum , a few days ago i got a temporary licence since then i have been unable to join that forum i have obviously cocked up somewhere, i have noticed from your posts that you use itrain software i hope you wont mind me picking your brains once i get going with the programme.