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Two small final points - trains terminating at Hatfield used the same platform as the Luton line departures, and the platform on the down main was almost never used by stopping trains, certainly in the period c1958-63 and during the hours in which an 8-12 year-old boy was likely to be trainspotting. For some reason I can clearly recall astonishment among the massed spotters when a train actually stopped on the down main platform. No need to respond to this post.

Only just seen this, but to confirm what I suspect you already knew and/or have had confirmed by others... As a keen spotter at Hatfield in the late 50s/early 60s, I recall that the sequence of events was as follows: terminating trains from KX/Moorgate/Broad St. ran into the outside face of the down (island) platform. After the passengers had got out, the train would reverse so that the stock stood more or less directly opposite and central to the up platform, and the engine would run round using the goods arrival line on the far (west) side of the coaches. The engine then coupled up to southern end of the stock and ran forward over the crossovers to the up slow, and finally reversed into the up bay awaiting departure. This could take some time as (obviously) there needed to be a break in traffic to allow the train to get across the up and down main lines and onto the up slow. When the Hatfield trains were taken over by DMUs, they also followed this pattern (without the run-round, of course). This inevitable sequence had a curiously reassuring and relaxing effect on the observer, leading to the delusion that all was right with the world. Eventually Hatfield ceased to be a termination point for many London trains, and the up bay was taken out of use - mid/late '60s? I have a vague recollection that by the late '60s, terminating DMUs standing over at Hatfield were put in the up yard - by that time largely disused for goods - and drew forward into the single up platform for loading and departure. But I could be wrong on that. I realise that you are unable to replicate this sequence, but thought that you might find this description of interest - apologies if I am merely repeating others' comments. Congratulations on a really excellent layout.

I wonder if anyone can help with this. A couple of years ago I bought from Working Timetable Reprints a copy of the Kings Cross District Passenger Engine & Enginemen's Diagrams for summer 1953. Having spent a lot of time in my youth spotting at Hatfield station, I was fascinated to see the No. 2 diagram for Hatfield loco reproduced below and specifically the shuttling back and forth to Ayot that took place between 3.00am and 4.57 am, when (depending on the day) up to four return trips were made. I can only think that it was a succession of trains to Blackbridge refuse siding between Ayot and Wheathampstead, presumably going out loaded and returning with the brake van, though the timings seem pretty tight to achieve this. However, I find it hard to imagine that the loading for this required 3-4 trains a day, six days a week (the trains also ran on Saturday). Does anyone have any knowledge of what was going on? Also, the abbreviations used: I know that 'L' is light engine and 'Gds' is goods train, but am not sure what is indicated by 'LA' and 'Gds.A.'. Finally, I would strongly recommend the Working Timetable Reprints site to anyone who has not heard of it.Scan.pdf

For me, realisation of my age came with reflecting on my father and in particular some things that he had started to do 'when he was getting on a bit' (as I thought of it). At that point it occurred to me that I was several years older than he had been when he died. Hmmm.... DSC

I post this with some trepidation, in case I am drawing attention to a resource that everyone on the planet except me is perfectly well aware of. However... While looking for inspiration for a goods shed for my layout, I came across a book on the Historic England site, entitled 'The Railway Goods Shed and Warehouse in England' by John Minnis (with Simon Hickman). It comprises 129 pages, and is well illustrated with contemporary and present-day photographs, plans of typical goods shed types, and one detailed plan/elevation of a specific shed. Well worth a look if you're interested in such buildings. Apart from anything else, I was entertained to see that one goods shed is now a Majestic Wines outlet. The book can be found on the Historic England site by searching 'All publications' in 'Images & Books', and on the relevant book page there is a link to a (downloadable?) PDF version of the full text. I haven't put in a hyperlink as I am not sure what RMWeb's policy is on such things.. Apologies if I have committed a transgression of the grandmother/egg-sucking variety. DSC

Firstly, my apologies for not having previously acknowledged all these very useful responses; a minor but time-consuming domestic plumbing incident intervened. Your kind replies have given me an excellent basis for thinking about shunting sequences and train make-up, especially the use of reach wagons as the unloading area is on a private siding just off the yard itself. In essence there need to be barriers at each end for fulls and empties - probably two smaller wagons, and paying attention to the wagon loads of the barrier vehicles. Certainly gives me a reason to increase the wagon fleet a bit.... I also need to beef up the distribution point 'security' a bit, though I suspect that there was probably a more relaxed H&S attitude in the early '50s (for better or worse). Thanks to Rivercider for the link to the thread on oil terminals, which I will look at carefully. The terminal I had in mind, or at least the one on which I had most information, was that for bitumen unloading at Whimsey in the Forest of Dean, covered in the excellent books by Pope and Karau. To my surprise when doing a bit of research, it seemed that these trains didn't have barrier wagons, presumably because the contents were non-volatile or possibly because the stub of the branch that the terminal was located on was considered itself to be a siding. It seemed likely that for 'lighter' hydrocarbon products there would have been quite strict guidelines on safety, and indeed it is now clear that this was the case. Thanks to everybody for their much appreciated assistance. All the best David C.

I am building a BR, 1950s-era goods yard - much of the operating interest will be shunting-based. I would like to include a delivery destination for tank wagons, which will contain some kind of oil-based, probably inflammable product. I believe that there was a requirement in loose-coupled trains at that period for a barrier vehicle/vehicles between such wagons and the engine and also perhaps the guard's van; that is, presumably, between the tank wagon and any vehicle containing a fire and/or human beings. Being of a pedantic nature, I'd like to ask the forum about the following specifics, so that I can get my practice right - a reference to readily-available documentation would be absolutely fine: 1. Were barrier vehicles required to protect both the engine and the guard's van, or just the former? 2. How many such vehicles were required? Did it vary with the number of tank wagons in the consist? 3. Were barrier vehicles required only during transit between points (i.e. on running lines) or also when tank wagons were being shunted in a yard? 4. Did it make any difference that the tank wagons were fulls or empties? 5. Were there any requirements for the type or loading of a wagon that could be used as a barrier vehicle? I would be most grateful for any guidance on this matter. David C.

Also a Petite Properties junkie. Fun to build, convincing and sturdy finished product, and easy to modify.

I like that idea, as I actually want to have a lamp-post-attached bus stop. Don't know why, I just do. The coach has a 'Nottingham' destination display, so it's credible as a stand-in, but it doesn't have a service number display presumably because of its 'coach' status. Perhaps I could print out a couple of two or three-digit service number notices and glue them into front/rear windows to make it a more credible 'stand-in'. Incidentally the factory I mention is real, in more than one sense. It is taking shape as Whiteley Electrical, which was one of Mansfield's main employers until (I think) the 1990s, and had a private siding just south of Mansfield (MR) station. One of my uncles worked at Whiteleys in the 1950s/60s. I'm modelling the factory yard, weighbridge, loading bay and a couple of short sidings, with the rest indicated by a low-relief back scene. I've put the contemporary Whiteley logo on the factory gates, but am not trying to copy the original. What I like most about railway modelling is all this - imagining the context and doing the research on the details to realise it. Love it. I'm not really all that bothered about trains actually running. Anyway, that's more than enough. All the best and thanks for your help and knowledge.

Yes, take your point. It's an excursion for the employees of the factory that I am putting in at the other end of the street. There's always a prototype, if you think hard enough.

WIndover temporarily installed. Now all I have to do is mucky it up a bit - well, that and finish the rest of the layout, especially toning down the house-painting...got a bit carried away there.

Butler H.: Thank you very much - that is not only very interesting in itself but clears my conscience, as I was mildly troubled by a concern that I was imagining a Trent presence in 1950s Mansfield - and even better, very likely on Sutton Road! I had noticed the rather clumsy TrentBarton name in my own web investigations, and wondered what its provenance was. Thanks to all respondents and to RMWeb from a very satisfied participant.

Again, thanks for all comments. cb900F - I suspect that you may very well be right about the incidence of bus companies...my family lived in Hertfordshire but my mother was Mansfield-born and I used often to visit relatives there from the late '50s to mid '60s. Two transport memories lodged in my ten-year-old head and are still there: the sound of the deep hooters of the ex-LMS (Stanier?) tanks on the Nottingham trains, drifting up the hill to my aunt's house, and the Trent buses that ran on Sutton Road near the Sir John Cockle pub. I have no idea why Trent has stuck with me but it may be because I was once nearly flattened by one of their vehicles; my fault entirely. So I am taking a pretty impressionistic stab, I will admit, at early 1950s reality. I've decided on a single-decker because the scenic part of the layout is quite small at about 3' 6"x2', and I have kept to the generally low profile of older Mansfieldesque 2-storey brick houses, end-terrace pubs and nonconformist chapels not merely because it is relatively easy to model, but also as it is fairly prototypical. I am a bit nervous that a doubledecker might overshadow or seem out of proportion to the scene as I have built it, and also because I rather like the shape of the Windover bus. So historical accuracy can go hang for a a nice bit of streamlining. Thanks for drawing my attention to the Worksop event. Living near Huddersfield, it's not that far and I may well take a drive down. All the best, DSC

Les That is very helpful indeed, and much more than I had hoped I might get - thank you very much. I will now apply myself to the PC keyboard - the singledecker bus is affordable and a bit of street furniture will add nicely to the scene. Thanks again to all. DSC

Firstly, many thanks to all for these replies - and indeed, the two sites appear to be the same, albeit with different routes to get there. There is a single-decker Trent model that I like the look of, so I'll see if that is available anywhere at a (highly subjective) reasonable price. I was unaware of the Mansfield District or Midland General companies, as - inevitably - this is a piece of nostalgia on my part, and my memories date from the later '50s and early '60s when perhaps Trent predominated (or the other companies simply made no impression on me). So I will also pursue that possibility. Thanks again, DSC

I am building a layout of a small urban goods station set somewhere in the Mansfield (Notts) area in the early 1950s. I would like to include a Trent Motor Traction bus, and I wonder if anyone could assist me in the following: 1. I have had difficulty in identifying a kit or RTR model of the right era and ownership. Many retailers and manufacturers appear to assume that the model buyer knows the maker's name for the bus that they are after. I'm sure that this is not unreasonable, but as a bus tyro, I am struggling somewhat, so any help with identifying a model/kit, or pointing me towards assistance from the right quarter, would be most appreciated. 2. And now I'm really pushing my luck...does anyone know what an early 1950s Trent bus stop sign looked like? I assume it would have been red, but otherwise have no idea. I would be grateful for any help that anyone may be able to offer. Thank you, DSC