michael mott

David, Thanks for your thoughts on my question. I have come to the conclusion that these sorts of questions engender a wide array of opinions, in the same way that the passions of model railway enthusiast cover the gamut. That said there are of course various associations that set up criteria for particular situations that have passionate followers. Michael

I have done a lot of work, changing the location from the basement to the workshop, also revised the track-plan to a more simple one. a few pictures of the progress the columns at the front are 3/4 inch copper and will get the flanges and the rest of the detailing soldered on the columns are 21 inches tall. Michael

continuing with the backdrop walls, this time the inside wall structure this is a series if brick arches that also support the overhead crane. The wall is 6 feet long and 21 inches high the front cornes will be rounded to assist with the wrapping of the corner bricks. The front layer is 5/8 inch thick. the back layers are two layers of 1/2 inch. and a cross section showing the position of the crane and the clearances for the tracks. Michael

Thanks for the clarification Ian. Today I was able to cut out the main backdrop, this being the outside of the works building. I had initially intended to cut out the top sheet out of a single piece, But after drawing it out realized that it would be more economical to build it up with pieces. only the back sheet is in one piece. I am going to need a lot of strips of brick paper to create the surface texture. Also a bit of time. I will use Arches 140 lb watercolor paper because it has a nice texture and takes paint well. here is the pattern for the layers at the columns first layer second layer Composite showing that all the bricks are cross bonded. this will be English bond. Michael Michael

More thoughts about the layout and the credibility of the space, now that the rail sizes have been sorted I have simplified the plan so that it only shows the one main brick building with half inside and half outside with a couple of small sheds outside. by squaring up the building I can incorporate the overhead crane on the columns better. by scaling the windows from the foundry at Crewe I will get a cleaner backdrop. Credit for the image below from the Edward Talbot and Clive Taylor book on the Crewe narrow gauge system. Michael

After reading a little further about the various weights of rail and wanting to get the right sizes I realized that the rails were far too small. The rail for the tramway or 18 inch gauge was 18lb the width across the rail head was 1 1/8 and 2 inches high and since the rail will be buried basically The height is less important than the width of the rail head and the Llagas creek .215 rail is 3 inches high and 1 3/8 wide at the rail head. The rail at Crewe was also flat bar in some locations both 2 inch and 1 3/8 wide so the Llagas Creek will work for the 18 inch The standard gauge rail is going to be code .336 high x .134 wide which is = to 4.75 high x 1 7/8 wide at the rail head. the rail head indicates a rail weight of 40lb which would only be 3 1/2inches high and again this will be mostly buried so the rail height wont be seen. Michael

Hi Ian, Yes it is an interesting question, I guess this one falls into the same conundrum as the scale gauge issues around 4mm modelling. I don't think there are any definitive answers. or the designation "fine scale" on 16.5mm track. I'm not intending to open a can of worms here.....The rivet counters of the world will no doubt put out a price on my head. All kidding aside The whole issue of nomenclature regarding our hobby is fraught with as many opinions as there are passionate builders. I have always been drawn to the odd stuff scale , gauge, subject matter. etc. And now there seems to be a new term that I have only just become familiar with "The Cameo". My question would be what is the difference between a "Cameo" and a "Micro"? to toss the question back to your court. Michael

I made a better drawing and printed up the layout onto a few 11x17 sheets and had a look to see what the massing will look like I ran out of card so will need to raid the garage tomorrow. The tramway loco will easily negotiate the 13.5 inch radius curves that I tortured the Peco flex track into. Most of the back will be the side of a building. Michael

Hi Rob, Thanks for your earlier council. Brack, Thank you for your compliments, I must admit that I was really sad at the damage that was done to the original Macton due to a poor storage situation. It is great to have a bit more room to work on the new layout. I like what you are planning it is giving me a few ideas so these things are reciprocal. Steve I can post a line drawing of the gates if that would help you at some further date. It is nice to know that I was able to inspire some people with my first Macton layout. Stu, thanks for the confirmation that I am in the right place. I am hoping that the actual buildings on the new plan are logical and not random now that I have started to get a feel for the new space. Layout planning is not one of my strengths so any comment about how to improve the scene are most welcome. I am hoping that toward the left end the standard gauge track will have full exposed rail and some weary vegetation, inside the building a combination of materials wood boards, sets, etc Michael

Some paper cutouts to get a sense of scale, The guards van is an old Lima O gauge one. the book is the Talbot one about the Crewe Tramway, the figure on the loco is actually too big he is 1/12th scale and not 27/32 scale. A similar pose as the one in Talbot's book. There will not be any track power but the locos will be radio controlled. Michael

Hi Duncan I have just finished going through the whole thread. Some great work on the various architectural details. I particularly like the surfaces in the quayside and the way that you have modeled the sets and embedded track. Michael

Thanks Ian, by your question are you implying that I should put this thread in a different location? or that I need to change the title. Michael

At the promptings of Rob of the Osney Wharf fame, I am dipping my feet into this area. A little background back in the early days of railway forums I did a small layout that was featured in the Gn15 forum called Gnatterbox this layout was ostensibly a locomotive works with a fictitious history, it was built to a scale of 1:24 using 16.5mm gauge track to represent 15 inch gauge which was a bit of a hybrid for even that group. The entrance to the works, adjacent to the drawing office. This layout was full of operational errors and follies, but I was more interested in the textures and materials than operations, also the backstory was also important. The idea revolved around a family business that built locomotives for the small holiday recreational railways of small gauge, the likes of Ruslip in the 50's and other miniature railways. Here the foreman Bertrand is attending some locos ready to be shipped out. As mentioned earlier my interests were in the textures and materials more than anything. A lot of experimenting with paper and card materials. The drawing office was meant to depict a repurposed building that was a bit run down. The glass in the windows was microscope slide glass with modelling clay putty that was falling out . The standard gauge track was laid with code 225rail stolen out of some Lionel set track and spiked through wooden sleepers and tie plates. the gauge was 2.511" and ran along side the works gate. A great deal of this earlier work was damaged but damp and mold during a poor storage location during a house move. Which brings me to the present day. I have now acquired a small room in the basement of the house we moved into a couple of years ago. and i do have a ground level workshop equipped with a good selection of model engineering tools. and a small narrow gauge garden railway, but.... I wanted something to quench my desire to get back mucking about with textures and trains for the winter months which are long in my neck of the woods. The room was tidied up and three baseboards fabricated from 6mm ply for the top and a full 3inch x 3/4 pine lumber for the frames. these are over the top of household storage (one of the conditions of using the room) today I finished sewing up the curtains for the fronts to keep it looking tidy. I have more 0 gauge track than much else that I have acquired over the years so I am now ruminating on the next Works. It will need to be O gauge track or 1.25 or 32mm for my newest gig which is the tramway locos of Crewe and Horwich. Here is a different foreman looking at the new Pet or Tiny which is fabricated from styrene with a salvaged motor from a dead printer. The brass work was turned up on the Myford in the workshop. There is lots of work left to finish the loco. But I am in the throes of coming up with a plausible layout that will include some outside and inside of a works with some greenery thrown in for good contrast to the hard surfaces of industry The inside of the works will be about standard gauge locos this time and that means that the gauge will need to be 3.955" or 100.45mm These will be rounded up to make life easier. as the likelihood of taking this layout to one of the two shows in Alberta Canada where I live are remote, I am not really concerned about the odd scale of .070 =1 inch, this is about enjoying my winter evening in the house and playing with materials. The standard gauge loco will be fabricated from card plastic and brass and will run albeit not far. I shall share my fiddlings from time to time during the frenzied working moments. For now I have made a start and am trying to make up my mind about how the scene will look and what if anything from the past can be reworked into this new project. Michael

Hi Rob, I have just finished going through this entire thread, and am inspired by your tenacity for getting a scene right for yourself. Many years ago I built a small layout in Gn15 called Macton Locomotive works, basically using 00 gauge track to represent 18 inch gauge, and made a couple of locos to represent the tramway locos at Horwich. Now I am retired a couple of moves from town to country back to the city. I have a small garden railway to "play Trains" with the grandkinds and to test large scale scratch built stuff, but my love of building a scene with a backstory is very strong indeed. I have a room in the new house that I have control over that will house a new layout and will give me the opportunity to get back to the sort of modelwork that you have so marvelously displayed in your layouts. I must say that "The Shed " is my favourite one of your layouts but I am also very inspired by your small details on Bude Quay and New Osney. Modelling in the larger scales is most definitely easier on the eyes and fingers these days. I am in western Canada and there are precious few folk in this neck of the woods who build layouts like yours, so thank you for all your posts and the continuing inspiration with your layouts Michael

Thanks, I have done a little more on the loco added the motor it is from an old printer here is a link to the motor test Michael