andreas

I have just come across an aerial photo taken on 16th January 1924 (Source: https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/archive/collections/aerial-photos/record/RAF_CPE_UK_1924_FS_2112, among others) The resolution is not good enough to make out details, but based on the shadows it looks like there used to be a small structure alongside the short siding. Judging by the length of the shadows I would say no more than perhaps ten feet tall. Also interesting is the lack of even ground in that part of the yard. Why would a heavy 7 ton crane be placed in such an inconvenient spot? The second photo seems to support the cattle sales yard hypothesis. If I'm not mistaken that's three cows on the way to the cattle dock.

The 1948 photo in SDRT Bulletin 258 does indeed show small LMS lettering in the lower left corner of the van. It also shows darker spots where the original larger LMS lettering must have been (first, third, and fifth panel section from the left). The colour is difficult to tell from the photos and the articles don't mention anything either, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was S&DJR grey with the obligatory layers of grime on top. By the way, I've just come across an 1946 aerial photo of the S&D van/wagon and the MR clerestory in their natural habitat (source: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW002937 ). Interestingly, an earlier riding van is paired with the other vehicles. This could well be the same six-wheeled brake that appears in photos from the early 1930s. What livery would LMS departmental coaches have carried at this point? Apologies, I haven't got any of the relevant books handy at the moment.

Having spent a bit time double and triple-checking my photo collection, I think I may have found a picture of the crane. The following is a crop from a D. Cullum photo reproduced in Middleton Press's Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction and also in SDRT Bulletin 177. The photo is dated 1922 so fits nicely into in-between the 1901 map and the 1938 RCH handbook. The older maps also show some open space around and what looks like road access to the crane. The open space had disappeared by the 1950s (see photo below) but there is still some kind of crossing visible just ahead of the coach. Perhaps the area was simply filled in when the crane was taken out of use? Another aspect I had missed, I can't see how the spur could have served the cattle dock. Sure, it looks like it on maps from c1900 but compare the position of the point lever on the left (1962, from John Betjeman's film) with the photo with the spur intact (1954, thetransportlibrary.co.uk). The spur would have run straight into the concrete of the cattle dock. I assume that's more arguments in favour of the crane theory. The only question remains, why was the siding kept until 1960 if it's original purpose had vanished by the 1930s? The other sidings had been removed much earlier.

Hi all, I’m trying to understand find out a little more how the small station goods yard just at Evercreech Jct was operated (i.e. not the large marshalling yard(s) at Evercreech Jct North). Was it served by trip workings from the yard or a passing goods train? How was the yard shunted? Does anyone know what the small siding off the back road was used for? The siding was only removed in January 1960. However, I think I’ve only seen it in use once: on the far left of the attached Ivo Peters picture from 12th July 1952 (marked in red). The only clues I've found so far are from old maps: There must have been a 7 ton hand crane once. Perhaps it was used for heavier loads that couldn't be handled in the goods shed. However, the crane must have been long gone by the time of Nationalisation as I can't find any traces in photos. Also the ground isn't flat, which would have limited the use of road vehicles. The siding could have been used in connection with a cattle sale yard that is mentioned on a map from 1901. There was indeed a cattle dock between this siding and the entrance to the goods yard but I'm not 100% sure which way that faced. There is around 1 to 2 metres of space between the pens and the edge facing the mainline. In any case, the cattle sales must have stopped relatively early as more recent maps don't show anything. I would rule out the slaughterhouse and the tile works, both of which had their own sidings.

I haven't seen a build date but SDRT Bulletin 258 surmises it must have been (re)built at Highbridge between 1900 and 1919. The van half is indeed almost identical to Derby-built S&D road vans, except for some planking and strapping details. The wagon part is said to be similar to Midland ex-PO 4-plank wagons as used in the 1870s and 80s. Bulletin 138 assumes a 9' 6" + 9' 6" wheelbase but I haven't seen anything definite.

The weird and wonderful van/wagon hybrid did indeed exist. SDRT Bulletins no. 138 and 258 contain articles with some photos, identifying the van as LMS no. 358464. The photos date from 1948, but I'm reasonably certain I can spot the vehicle lurking in the background of a photo from August 1951. However, by November 1952, the previously mentioned (GWR?) van no. 116097 had taken its place, only to be replaced again in c1961 by a LMS van with sliding doors. P.s. Bulletin 138 mentions the article you must have seen was in Model Railway News May 1952

Excellent work John. Your breakdown train looks just like the real thing. I'm afraid I'm half a year late now, but perhaps the information is still useful. The riding van was DM198698M. I have found the attached picture, which nicely shows its side in what must have been the early 1950s. The SDRT also have a great photo available: https://www.sdrt.org/product/Bath-Green-Park-MR-Coach-DM198698M-On-Shed-05-08-62/. I'm not sure which diagram this coach originally was. Based on the spacing between windows it could have started off as a non-corridor first. The SDRT site mentions a built date of 1909, but the contemporary D481 48ft non corridor first doesn't match. The tool van must have changed over time. The attached photo shows no. 116097 but the one visible in some 1960s photos is definitely different. See for example https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/44740057460/. [Edit: 116097 must have been an ex-GWR van, which appeared between 8/51 and 11/52 and lasted until c 1961. Afterwards, an LMS van with sliding doors took over, the number of which I cannot make out, but it definitely ends in 5, likely in 5925.]

I have recently come across Colour Rail photo SD306 on ebay and thought it fits rather well to this discussion: 4F 44591 with the Bath breakdown train at Moorewood sidings in February 1953. This may well be one of the few photos of the train in action. What the occasion was and why a Saltley loco would be used is a bit of a mystery to me.

This is rather interesting. I'm not surprised that by 1960 Highbridge was no longer covered by an S&D breakdown train. The last photo of the Highbridge vans are from c1956. However, I also didn't know about an Evercreech Jct tool van. The closest I've come across are an R.C. Riley photo dated 20th September 1958 showing Signal Department tool vans 14944 and 14986 (both ex GWR diagram CC3). I have also recently seen a 1956 photo of an ex-GWR 4-wheeled composite (?) as M&E coach W32. Both are seen parked in the station goods yard but must have been visitors. I haven't found any other photos of departmental vehicles. I wonder if the vans assigned to Evercreech Junction were perhaps stabled somewhere else? Templecombe? @The Stationmaster do you happen to have similar assignment data for later years? In 1962, ex-LSWR brake third DS1578, the tool van stabled at Templecombe loco, is clearly labelled 'Templecombe Breakdown Train'. It, or one like it, had been there from c1955 onwards. Earlier, from the 1940s to c1957 there was also an ex-MR 6w clerestory, possibly LMS no. 355462. However, I can't find any photos of the lettering. Additionally, from at least summer 1961 to August 1964, there was another coach stationed in Templecombe lower yard: maroon ex-LMS P1 D1962 vestibule third number M8439M. I am still trying to understand its purpose (other than it being a perfect example of gradual weathering over time) (see also Andreas

Hi John, Thank you for sharing the drawings. Out of curiosity, do you know how far south the BGP breakdown train worked? Would it have been used at e.g. Evercreech Jct? Or would that have been in the hands of the Templecombe or, in earlier years, Highbridge trains? I can't tell you what the projections are for but I found a few detail photos that might help. It appears there are two distinct types of attachments. ( https://railphotoprints.uk/p752970880/h2def2b5b#h166c0b83 ) Andreas P.s. I have sent you a message.

Thank you all for sharing your experience. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the exact mechanisms but I can see how the checkrail gap will be a challenge. It's probably obvious but what is the relationship between wheel tread thickness and check rail gap? Or did I misunderstand and the relationship is purely gap width vs. flange width? Is there also a dependency on the radius of the turnout? N Gauge Finetrax is definitely superior to Peco (at the cost of finally restricting pizza cutters to the kitchen). Wayne Kinney, the maker of Finetrax, has recently clarified the exact measurements on the Templot forum https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?threads/n-gauge-nfx.509/ Curves should not be a problem in the short to mid term. I am planning an end-to-end layout based on Evercreech Junction. The main line is curved ever so slightly at around 50" radius. That would make the points the bottleneck, but even then I don't think I will go below a B7 outside the goods yard. Building locos to n gauge standards is of course an option. Bachmann have recently started offering complete wheelsets for all their models at around £6 per axle. The only downside are the unsightly coupling rods and the challenge of adopting existing kits (is that even possible?) to the much narrower BTB. In any case I'll have another go at converting a loco to finescale and perhaps even try to finally build a chassis for the S&DJR Sentinel body I have sitting around. Even if I end up with n gauge for the main layout I can always build a tiny shunting layout for the two locos. Radstock or Writhlington would lend themselves perfectly to a Sentinel and a Jinty. Andreas P.s. apologies for only responding now. Lack of time is the exact reason why I'm looking for a solution that gives me something to play with the in the short term without sacrificing options for more detail in the long run.

Thank you for your insights Bob and Chris. You have confirmed what I expected. The complete lack of hybrid layouts should have been a clue! I fully unterstand that 2mm chassis won't be an option in this case. I was hoping to get away with 0.5mm narrower spacers and just adjusting the BTB. If 2FS loco wheels are not an option that becomes rather more than half a millimetre though. At least wagons and coaches can be converted easily with the Association n gauge wheels. I suppose in my circumstances I will build the layout with n gauge Finetrax and leave my loco-building ambitions for the next one (ready for 2040 perhaps?). Andreas

Hi all, Does anyone have experience with association (loco) wheels on n gauge code 40 finetrax points? I have read and heard different opinions but never anything truly conclusive. I heard they will drop in the gaps of crossing vees - is that an inconvenient cosmetic problem or would it prevent the loco from running at all? For context: I had initially planned to build my new layout in 2mm, but in my current circumstances it would take me forever to convert enough rolling stock. I simply can't find enough time to justify firing up my soldering iron. Of course there is a faint hope that at some point that will change and I can continue with the long list of locos and stock I want to build. So for now I want to get to a stage where I can run (RTR) trains on good-enough looking track, while not blocking the option to run kit-built locos in the future. If association wheels are not an option are there any alternatives for scratch-built steam locos or kits intended for 2mm? Alternatively, is there anything that can be done to the track to help running RTR and association wheels together (with the right BTB)?

This happens to be a subject I have recently started looking into in a little more detail (some might say a little too much perhaps?). I will try to expand upon the previous answers and summarise the typical workings along with some of the more unusual combinations. While the S&D mainline expresses are well known for their eclectic mix of rolling stock, branch trains were similarly varied, especially after the Western Region took over. As usual with the S&D, rule 1 is rarely needed. There really was a prototype for everything. As Coombe Martin has pointed out already, there were several distinct periods from Nationalisation to closure: 1948 to 1958: LMS non-gangwayed 2-sets, e.g. LMS composite + brake third (period 2 or 3 non-lavatory coaches were the most prolific) 1958 to 1961: Gradual replacement with GWR B-sets. A GWR B-set (E145) is a safe choice. 1962/1963: Anything goes and gradual replacement with corridor stock, e.g. GWR BC (E157) + BT (D132, or Mk1 BSK + CK , or... 1964 to closure: single brake composites: e.g. Hawksworth BCK + SR van From nationalisation to around 1958, virtually all branch trains were made up of LMS 2-sets composed of brake third and composite. A wide range of diagrams from all LMS periods were used, including lavatory-fitted coaches. Occasionally, especially in summer, trains were strengthened with another set or whatever else was available. For anyone interested in running numbers I could find the following in my notes: 1960 P3 C (D1921) M16777M (middle digit is unclear) 1960 P1 CL (D1686) M19090M (not 100% legible) 1959 P3 (D1921) M16753M 1959 P1 C (D1701) M16092M (not 100% legible) 1958 P2 BT (D1735) M20403M 1958 P2 C (D1734) M16399M c1958 P2 BT (D1735) M20558M 1954 P1 BT (D1703) M20253M (not 100% legible) 1951 P1 BT (D1703) M20156 in crimson lake (on the Bridgwater branch) c1950 P1 CL (D1686) M19097 in crimson lake (not 100% legible) 1949 P3 BT (D1907) M20772 (not 100% legible) c1948 P1 BT (D1703) M20150 in crimson lake In the very early days of Nationalisation, the odd Midland coach would also make an appearance. Photographical evidence is sparse though. During the 1950s, the main source of variation were excursion trains and the spare Maunsell rebuilt ex-LSWR coaches normally stabled at Evercreech Jct. Especially in the early 1950s, summer excursions would occasionally lead long trains with mainline stock over the branch. Depending on the origin, they could contain virtually anything seen on the mainline, e.g. Gresley articulated coaches to D171, Maunsell rebuilt ex-LSWR coaches or LMS designs, such as M7674M, a period 1 LMS RTO to D1706. But perhaps the most unusual combination on the branch must have been GWR Prairie tank 5522 with Hawksworth inspection saloon as seen in a photo dated February 1956 in Footplate Over The Mendips (I have always wondered if the caption shouldn't have been 2/58?). While period 1 coaches had disappeared by the mid-1950s, things stayed more or less the same until the takeover by the Western Region. In 1959, we see the first GWR influences on the branch, namely GWR B-Sets started appearing, e.g. W6561W+W6563W (diagram E129) was seen in July 1959. Later also W6216W+W6217W, W6338W (diagram E145). Replacing LMS coaches was a gradual process, which lasted until 1961, when non-gangwayed LMS coaches vanished from service. By that point, most of them had already shown signs of field repairs. Many had lost door vents, now plated over with steel sheets. Incidentally, this helps identify specific coaches. The last of the LMS coaches in continuous use seems to have been a period 2 brake third to diagram D1735. The last photo I could find shows it coupled to a Stanier CK (D1898) on the 4.00pm Highbridge to Templecombe on 2nd September 1961. I am aware of at least one more appearance of an LMS non-corridor coach. In March/April 1962, a LMS Period 3 BT (D1964) was photographed, but it appears this may have been short-lived. In 1961, the first signs of the impending change to gangwayed coaches appeared. In April 1961, a Stanier SO (D1915) ran with what probably was an ex-GWR BC to diagram E147. In the summer of the same year one set comprised an LMS P2 non-gangwayed brake third and a Stanier CK (D1898). There had been the occasional corridor coach before, but as far as I can tell they moved away quickly again. A particularly unusual pairings was recorded in August 1960, when W2659W, a GWR Third to C83, ran with a Mk1 BCK in chocolate and cream and SR Vans behind 4F 44560. By 1962/1963 things were starting to get a little messy - or perhaps I should say varied. GWR, LMS, LNER and BR coaches - gangwayed and non-gangwayed - all started appearing together. Initially, in addition to GWR B-sets now also non-matching two sets were used. Loose brake compos to E147, E157 and E167 were common, e.g. W6218W, W6284W, W6318W, W7086W. Non-gangwayed brake thirds to D132, e.g. W2764W, and D117, e.g. W5870W, as well as thirds, e.g. W5199W (C58), could be seen too. Perhaps worth mentioning is M16855W, a Swindon-built coach for the LMS to LMS diagram D2189, which is essentially the pre-war GWR diagram E156. It was seen in June 1962 on a branch train. Matching B-sets disappeared at the end of 1962. In March and April 1962, a non-gangwayed Thompson lavatory composite was captured running with the aforementioned LMS P3 BT to diagram 1964. From at least 9/62 to early 1963, the Thompson 5-compartment brake third E87217E was resident on the branch, as seen in Sir John Betjeman's film Imagine a Branch Line. There it was coupled to with Mk1 63' suburban compo no. W41047. In 1963, gangwayed stock started taking over. For example, in 4/1963, a set with Stanier BCK (diagram 1850/1939) and Stanier SO M9056M (D1915) was used for a while. Mk1 sets consisting of BSK + CK were also common with sightings from the end of 1962 onwards. So far I have only been able to identify CK M15828. In addition, further GWR-designed corridor coaches appeared. Between 8/63 and 4/64 Collett third (C77) W541W was photographed multiple times. Collett Brake Third (D127) W602W was seen in 10/63. All of these coaches seem to have been coupled to whatever was available, so e.g. a Mk1 suburban composite running with a gangwayed Collett BSK wouldn't be unusual. From 1964 onwards, single Hawksworth brake composites appeared and had become the norm by the time the line closed. Identified numbers include W7383W, W7838W, W7842W, W7844W and possibly W7859W, as well as ex-double-slip coach W7376W, readily identifiable by lack of corridor connections and the additional tanks. BR Mk1 BCKs, e.g. W21063, W21186, and Collett brake composites, e.g. W7366W, were used too but were generally rarer. For a bit of variety, green liveried Bullied semi-open brake third W4320S was used from late 1964, typically together with a BCK and the obligatory van. In later years, most trains conveyed a van, mostly SR Van Cs or Bogie Van Bs. Other common choices were Mk1 BGs, LMS 50ft BGs, e.g. M30775M, M30868M, M31312M and from around 1964 Thompson BZs (D358), e.g. E700649E and E70654E. The practice of combining vans and single BCKs led to a number of interesting formations when sets were combined for operational reasons. For example, there are several photos of an SR van C sandwiched between an Mk1 BCK and a Hawksworth BCK, which in turn was tailed by another van. What still puzzles me, is why vans seem much rarer pre 1963. Perhaps it is just selection bias and up to 1962 most photos were taken at weekends? For photographical evidence I can recommend photos from the footbridge at Highbridge. Most coach sets were stored there, so a single photo can show the composition of perhaps five different sets at once.

Thanks Brian (and Chris). The GER van is indeed a perfect match. I had checked a good number of LMS, GWR and SR books for hints, but looking for an East Anglian vehicle never crossed my mind. Did you or Chris come to any conclusions what the purpose of the depicted train was or when the photo was taken? I would have thought the van's parentage made it an unlikely candidate to be stationed semi-permanently on the S&D and I don't think I've ever seen it in other photos. However, a LMS D1807 does appear several times from 1952 to 1954. While I cannot prove it, I rather think it must be the same coach as gangwayed vestibule coaches were extremely rare on the branch until c1961. Here the photos I've found so far. The dates are rather interesting and could indicate the D1807 was the assigned before the Maunsell Rebuilts and was withdrawn or reassigned shortly after the new coaches arrived. 4th August 1952 at Highbridge (photo by John J Smith, available from https://www.bluebell-railway-museum.co.uk/) 8th August 1953 at Evercreech Jct (Ivo Peters plate 157) 25th April 1954, together with Maunsell rebuilt coaches at Evercreech Jct (Gerald Druce https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=188806 26th April 1954. (Revd Alan Newman, CG Maggs West of England) Undated (Heyday of the S&D) Unfortunately, none show the accompanying van, which must have existed to accommodate the guard. I did, however, find one Ivo Peters photo from 12th July 1952 (plate 102), which shows what could be a van but hides whatever was behind it. The photo Can anyone identify it? Despite the grainy picture, the roof implies it is not an LSWR/SR coach and I think not an LMS-built vehicle or the GER BZ either. In case anyone is interested, the Evercreech spare coaches did occasionally venture over the branch, for example to strengthen Burnham excursion trains. https://railphotoprints.uk/p752970880/h192d988d, taken on the August Bank Holiday in 1956, shows 40569 with what is almost certainly the Evercreech Maunsell rebuilts and a selection of LMS coaches. Pines Express no. 203 contains a similar photo from 30th July 1955 (but with more SR rebuilds).

This is almost certainly a Highbridge branch train from the 1964/65 period, when a single brake composite and a van were the norm. Up to the end of the 1950s branch trains consisted almost exclusively of LMS non corridor brake third and composite pulled by a ex MR 1P, 3F or an Ivatt tank. From c1960 the formation slowly changed, first to GWR non-corridor 2-sets and then single brake compos. As far as I know neither LMS 4-4-0s nor the Evercreech spare coaches were regularly used over the branch.

For my model of Evercreech Junction I am researching the spare coaches that were kept there. They were mainly used for emergencies, for example to help passengers on the down Pines Express make their connections at Templecombe if the Pines ran very late. As far as I know, initially two Maunsell rebuilt LSWR coaches were assigned to Evercreech Jct from 1954 to 1959: S2626, a lavatory brake third to D98, and S4654S, a lavatory composite to D285. They are reasonably well documented in photos and e.g. Mike Kings books and Brian McDermott's Modeller's Guide. Afterwards, there must have been a single LMS coach and van for which I have been trying to find details for a while. There is an intriguing Ivo Peters photo in Mendips Engineman showing 40698 with what is described as a scratch train from the Junction to Templecombe. Unfortunately, the photo is undated and also relatively small (and my poor phone scan does not help either) The train consists of what is probably a six wheeled brake van and an LMS period two vestibule third in crimson and cream. What appears to be the same open third also appears in the background of several other photos alongside the Maunsell coaches. For example on https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=188807 and Revd. Alan Newman's photo in CG Maggs' West of England. These two photos are dated: 25th and 26th April 1954. The van is a bit of a mystery to me. It has characteristics of many different designs but I have yet to find one that matches all: the elliptical roof profile matches LMS and GWR practice. The panelled sides and full length step boards point to a pre-grouping origin. From the overall look and feel an LMS Stove R is most similar but the panelling, step boards and missing ducket rule out this option. Now to my questions. Does anyone have additional detail around the spare coaches kept at Evercreech Jct? How likely is it that the Mendips Engineman photo shows one of the spares, especially considering what appears to be the same coach appears in 1954 when the Maunsell rebuilds had only just been assigned? If not, what could this train have been for? Also, can anyone identify the van in the photo? Additionally, there was a departmental or spare coach stationed at Templecombe in at least the period from summer 1961 to August 1964. Maroon ex-LMS P1 D1962 vestibule third number M8439M appears in many photographs of Templecombe lower yard, for example https://www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/24017677063/. The number is clearly visible in at least one HC Casserley close up. Can anyone shed light on what this coach was used for?

I thought it's worth giving a quick status update after a month and rather modest progress with the first coach. So far I have spent most of the time I managed to find over the last weeks building the underframe and bogies. I used 2FS association bogies that went together very nicely. For a change none of the axleboxes decided to come undone and play hide and seek on the carpet. However, the underframe has proven rather too much for my 25W Antex, even with the biggest bit I could find. I only managed to get the solebars soldered on with a little help from the gas hob. Let's hope the domestic authorities don't find out. Next step is to fix some blemishes in the roof, build step boards and decide how to connect the bogies. Particularly for the bogies there seem to be many different options. From what I have read so far using the bogie mounts from the bogie looks more promising than the mount from the Ultima etch. Can anyone recommend a good way of attaching them (and post some pictures if possible)? Does anyone have experience with step boards? I plan to build them from 1mm brass strip. Is it enough to simply solder them on? In larger scales the preferred option seems to solder the step boards to small L-shaped pieces of wire, which have been fed through holes in the solebar and soldered on from behind. In your experience is the added strength needed in 2mm?

I finally realised why your user name looks so familiar. The thread you started was one of the few places with information about 2mm coaches I could find. Admittedly, when I first read it I probably didn't know enough about coach building to fully understand all the details. Now that some of the fundamental questions are out of the way I found it a treasure trove with answers to questions that I would surely come across later. By the way, your finished coaches are absolutely stunning. I still can't quite believe that the Hawksworth coach was the very first coach you've built. As a bit of an LMS man myself, I particularly like your LMS P2 SO. Looks like I really missed out on some lovely kits now that Chris Higgs' Masterclass kits are no longer available. By the way, did you ever try building an Ultima coach with a removable roof? I think you mentioned you were considering that as an alternative to fitting sides last. Based on your experience are these size differences also apparent when placing coaches of different scales in separate trains? I can see that for older stock scale any scale differences might be easier to disguise. Looking at S&D photos from the 1920s and 30s the sizes and roof lines all over the place anyway. My favourite example must be the attached HC Casserley photo of Radstock from 1929. Considering that RTR and kit likely won’t mix too well due to glazing, finish etc. and assuming size differences between N and 2FS are not too obvious as long as the coaches don't run together in a single train, I think I will try to stick to 2FS kits. There is just so much more choice. With n scale I would very quickly run out of options. There is also a little wishful thinking that, should I ever try to fully move to 2FS, I will only need to replace the wheels. After a rather less successful attempt at converting a loco that plan is shelved for now, but I have the suspicion I may try again with a little more experience in kit/scratch building. In the meantime I got myself a little Christmas. Looks like my first attempt will be a Hawksworth BCK (thanks Andy!). I also ordered an Ultima Thompson six-wheeled van for a bit of soldering practice. Both should go well with an Ivatt tank or a Collett 0-6-0 to create a typical S&D branch line train as it would have run in the mid 1960s, not too dissimilar to https://railphotoprints.uk/p752970880/h2eda4966 perhaps.

Thanks for sharing your experience, David. That's exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for. Sounds like I would best start with an Ultima coach and try out fully soldered construction in a second step. I have just checked and, naturally, the Hawksworth brake compo is the only Hawksworth that's sold out. If I remember right the Hawksworth coaches are very much standardised, so I should get away with e.g. a BTK kit and a set of BCK sides plus perhaps a few fittings. Out of curiosity, what made you pick the Ultima Hawksworth, as opposed to, e.g. an Ultima LMS coach? Is that related to the kits themselves or because the Hawksworth was used on its own, making it immediately useful? Regarding 3d printing, if I'm not mistaken the recent Ultima Pro kits are exactly what you describe: a 3d printed body with etched overlays. Unfortunately, all relevant models are sold out.

I'm hoping to make use of the collective experience around here to help me pick good kits for a first foray into coach building. I am looking for n gauge or 2mm coach kits that are ideally (1) relatively easy to build and finish, (2) look the part and (3) are immediately useful for 1950s/1960s Somerset & Dorset. Ultimately I'm trying to avoid an early disappointment that will keep me from building more coaches in the future. My main question is how kits from different providers compare. As far as I can tell the most likely options are Ultima/Etched Pixels and Worsley Works and perhaps BH Enterprises if they still trade. For anyone who has tried kits from different sources, which did you consider easier and which are better looking? I understand Worsley Works use all-soldered construction and, of course, I will also need to source my own roofs, bogies and fittings. I am not afraid of soldering but I am still learning with only a few 2mm association wagons finished so far. Or is it perhaps worth trying 3D prints instead? Recreation21/Rue D'Etropal looks like an interesting alternative but I have never tried finishing anything 3d printed so find it difficult to judge how 3d prints compare to brass. Secondly, I am looking for recommendations which prototypes might make my life easier. I am modelling the Somerset and Dorset Railway in n gauge. Technically my modelling period is the early 1960s, but I must admit to the occasional service with prototypes from the 1930s through the 1950s. Of course this gives a wide range of options for kits: SR Bulleid 59' 3-set (Worsley, BH) LSWR 3 sets (Worsley) LMS corridor coaches (Worsley, Ultima) running alongside RTR LMS restaurant car (Worsley, Ultima) running alongside RTR LMS non-corridor coaches (Worsley, Ultima, Recreation21) LMS period 1 brake vans for e.g. pigeon specials (Worsley, Ultima) GWR Hawksworth brake compo (Ultima) S&DJR coaches (Worsley). When finished in lined SR green they only just fit the late 1930s period but I'm willing to bend some rules for actual S&DJR vehicles. After a bit of research I'm still left with the following open questions: How difficult did you find forming the sides? For example, Worsley Works Bulleid coach kits mention preformed sides. Is it worth picking one of these for this reason? Are corridor or non corridor coaches easier to get right? I.e. is it easier to add corridor connections or get many door handles and drop lights lined up correctly? How difficult did you find adding lining for e.g. BR maroon? Is it worth starting with NPCCS, non-corridor coaches or a SR prototype for this reason? How much more difficult did you find full lining for period 3 LMS and SR prototypes? How easily do kit built and RTR coaches blend in a train? For example, does a single kit-built LMS coach in a rake of Graham Farish Staniers look out of place? Is it perhaps better to keep kit and RTR in separate trains? This is of course also related to the 2mm vs. n gauge consideration, as many prototypes are only available in one scale. From what I've read so far it seems 2mm and n gauge go together as long as they are not the same type of coach, but I have yet to find some photos. I appreciate this is a rather long list of questions, but perhaps some of you can share your experiences from your first attempts. Andreas

Thank you @Intraclast. I was secretly hoping for a drawing like this. Much clearer than any explanation. Now Hopefully I will find some time at the weekend to see just if I will manage to solder them.

Thank you for linking the thread. I remember seeing this one earlier when I had just started with the kit. I have to admit, even with zooming in, I am still not 100% certain how to assemble the gussets. I have the pieces and I know how the result should look like, but I cannot work out how to get from one to the other. The picture also reminded me that I still need to learn how to best represent rust. So far my attempts have not been too convincing. On a very different topic, is there anything I should know about underlay in 2mm? For context, my 'layout' is a small number of 2ft modules, without any pointwork for now. Perhaps unusually, the wooden baseboard is hidden under several layers of extruded foam, with the 9mm ply of the outside frame as the only wooden surface for tracklaying. With Peco code 55 I was planning to use 1.5mm cork stuck to the foam with Gorilla Glue and with Copydex to any of my bridges. However, a good number of threads here seem to recommend against cork. I imagine that is because of much tighter tolerances in 2mm?

Thank you for your help and encouragement. Without Nick Mitchell's video tutorial I would not have gotten close to a working chassis. As someone who had never used a soldering iron before, his basic soldering advice was particularly useful. I followed your advice and bent the axle boxes slightly outward. One axle is running perfectly now, much better than a comparable Farish wagon. The other axle has also improved significantly but may still need a little more tweaking. I think that was part of the reason. I remember struggling with the axle boxes. Perhaps I managed to unsolder the bearing cups. I should get myself different solder to try varying temperatures. That may be the other reason. I noticed the floor is slightly bent upwards on one side. You probably won't believe it, but the photos were taken after my attempts at cleaning the etch. I used DCCconcepts Sapphire No-Clean flux, which according to their website can be cleaned with "a simple wipe over with cloth or cotton bud dipped in Isopropyl alcohol or even methylated spirits". Well, the results in the photo are after a prolonged bath in IPA and a good scrub with an old toothbrush. That did at least take off the layer of copper oxide that had formed. I will try again with cream cleaner. Out of curiosity, what flux is everyone using? The DCConcepts flux worked well enough (not that I have anything to compare it to) even if it is not intended for brass work. There is one little detail I have still to add to the wagon: the gussets under the strengthening ribs of the bodywork. They are so small it is difficult to see them in the video. I have checked pictures of finished wagons and the prototype but I am still struggling to understand how to get from the two etched parts to the final thing. They look a very different shape to me. Can you perhaps point me to a good picture that shows where the two pieces need to be soldered together? Andreas

Having recently made that fateful first step into 2mm and kit-building my first victim has been the mineral wagon from the Association taster kit. Etched metal being an entirely new medium to me, I am rather proud the result vaguely resembles a wagon chassis. However, there is one minor niggle; the wheels do not want to run in their bearings at all. Normally, I would just take my pliers, bend the w irons and hope for the best. However, being new to wagon kits I thought it is perhaps better to check I am not doing more harm than good. Are there any other common reasons why wheels would not run freely? I have attached two rather crude pictures in case something is obvious from them. For example, I noticed the rim of the bearings protrudes above the inside of the w irons, but I do not know if that is expected. I have another two kits waiting to be started. Do you have any recommendations to avoid running issues in the future? P.s. these cruel close ups are rather useful. I just noticed a few tabs I forgot to file