[Dockside Cranes]

Hi Bill,

I read though this thread a few days back, I do recall Pacific231G listed some kits somewhere in it. Whether they are relevant i don't know.

Paul

[Dockside Cranes]

Thanks for the information David, I think, when all is said and done, I am confined by the track spacing i have, 60mm (15'). So eventually when i do build  the crane, assuming 17.5ft, I may have to scale it to fit.

Paul

[Dockside Cranes]

On 30/07/2022 at 11:58, D River said:

Look forward to seeing that - I used to spend ages shunting and waiting with car trains on the two lines to the right of the site, a lot of the track seen here at 43/44 berth was visible 15 years or so ago, but has been ploughed up since.  The cranes went before that, there was a solitary Stothert and Pitt here about twenty years ago, but in pre digital times I never thought to photograph it.  The track gauge appears to be the same here - the cranes were moved around the docks, so that makes sense. Despite looking I've not found any drawings detailed enough for models of these older S and P cranes, but to be fair I've not delved too deeply into the archives and they came in a range of designs. They don't feature in the Ocean Terminal Plans I have either, so it'll be great to see what you come up with.  Best of luck with it 🙂

Thanks for that, I have a long way to go as yet. Are you still local? I lived in Warsash until 1970, lived in Essex since.

[Dockside Cranes]

My diorama is based loosely on this view. 

[Dockside Cranes]

10 hours ago, D River said:

Track gauges and Google Earth...a bit more,

 

Using Google Earth for the cranes I posted the photos of at the QE2 Terminal in Southampton's East Docks the gauge comes out at around 17'6".  Using the same magnification and measuring tool the track gauge between the crane rails comes out at about 4.8 feet which is close to correct.  The historic image layers (click on the date in the bottom left of the screen show the cranes I photographed in position on those rails back in 2007, again, the measurements appear to show 17'6" for these particular cranes.  However, although cranes could be moved around the docks by the floating cranes there were different owners (as pointed out above) for The Town Quay and this had different cranes.  Google Earth does appear to show the same 17'6" (ish) gauge in the West Docks to.  Clicking through each image in the historic layers box does show some interesting anomalies however, photos that don't quite join, apparent changes in track gauge or what could be blurred out ship for two things...so it as only a guide as already mentioned.

 

Its also worth mentioning that "Gauge" in terms of the crane rails was a centre to centre measurement as there were different forms.  Southampton had pairs of rails with a centrally flanged wheel, London seemed to favour a central rail with outside flanged wheels and flangeway guards.  As my own models were at 2mm and static I simply sat the wheels in a painted groove.  I think that's called cheating...😬

OK, I think your measurement is better than mine, so I'go with yours. I was measuring the wrong lines. Although it doesn't make any difference Ocean Terminal was on the White Star wharf, was just up from the QE2 wharf. 

Thank you for the input, much appreciated.

Paul.

[Dockside Cranes]

10 hours ago, D River said:

Track gauges and Google Earth...a bit more,

 

Using Google Earth for the cranes I posted the photos of at the QE2 Terminal in Southampton's East Docks the gauge comes out at around 17'6".  Using the same magnification and measuring tool the track gauge between the crane rails comes out at about 4.8 feet which is close to correct.  The historic image layers (click on the date in the bottom left of the screen show the cranes I photographed in position on those rails back in 2007, again, the measurements appear to show 17'6" for these particular cranes.  However, although cranes could be moved around the docks by the floating cranes there were different owners (as pointed out above) for The Town Quay and this had different cranes.  Google Earth does appear to show the same 17'6" (ish) gauge in the West Docks to.  Clicking through each image in the historic layers box does show some interesting anomalies however, photos that don't quite join, apparent changes in track gauge or what could be blurred out ship for two things...so it as only a guide as already mentioned.

 

Its also worth mentioning that "Gauge" in terms of the crane rails was a centre to centre measurement as there were different forms.  Southampton had pairs of rails with a centrally flanged wheel, London seemed to favour a central rail with outside flanged wheels and flangeway guards.  As my own models were at 2mm and static I simply sat the wheels in a painted groove.  I think that's called cheating...😬

 

[Dockside Cranes]

10 hours ago, D River said:

Track gauges and Google Earth...a bit more,

 

Using Google Earth for the cranes I posted the photos of at the QE2 Terminal in Southampton's East Docks the gauge comes out at around 17'6".  Using the same magnification and measuring tool the track gauge between the crane rails comes out at about 4.8 feet which is close to correct.  The historic image layers (click on the date in the bottom left of the screen show the cranes I photographed in position on those rails back in 2007, again, the measurements appear to show 17'6" for these particular cranes.  However, although cranes could be moved around the docks by the floating cranes there were different owners (as pointed out above) for The Town Quay and this had different cranes.  Google Earth does appear to show the same 17'6" (ish) gauge in the West Docks to.  Clicking through each image in the historic layers box does show some interesting anomalies however, photos that don't quite join, apparent changes in track gauge or what could be blurred out ship for two things...so it as only a guide as already mentioned.

 

Its also worth mentioning that "Gauge" in terms of the crane rails was a centre to centre measurement as there were different forms.  Southampton had pairs of rails with a centrally flanged wheel, London seemed to favour a central rail with outside flanged wheels and flangeway guards.  As my own models were at 2mm and static I simply sat the wheels in a painted groove.  I think that's called cheating...😬

Oh well we're only 5' apart.....

[Dockside Cranes]

20 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Hopefully you’ll share here on RMWeb - this will be a layout I’d be very interested in seeing!

 

Steve S

So would I !!!!

I started off at a good pace, but got bogged down with making turnout switches and the MERG control system. It is my first ever layout, so a big leaning curve.

Paul.

[Dockside Cranes]

Using the google measure, I get 3.8m approx, 12.5ft. Correlating with the nearby permanent way suggest it's fairly accurate..ish.

I did measure the old crane tracks at Surrey docks last month, using the iPhone measuring app, they were more like 13ft.

Paul

[Dockside Cranes]

7 hours ago, petethemole said:

The original cranes at Ocean Dock, also by S&P, were these

 

S&P also supplied the cranes for Town Quay, which I mentioned earlier during discussion of the Airfix kit.  Southampton Harbour Board controlled the Town Quay and Royal Pier area west of the LSWR-owned Docks, which belonged to the Borough.

 

Excellent photos, thanks for posting.

Paul

 

[Dockside Cranes]

11 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

 

The ruler is indicated by the red arrow.

 

 

On my version of Google the ruler is accessed with a right click on the mouse. Great little tool.

[Dockside Cranes]

22 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

@paul59There was an issue a couple of months ago with RMWeb.   Their servers failed catastrophically.   All images before a certain point were lost.    Replacement is up to the individuals who posted the pictures.   Those dead links are images that were lost.

Ah right, that explains it.

Thanks

Paul.

[Dockside Cranes]

48 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

You can probably measure them on Google Earth, zoom in as close as you can before the image gets to fuzzy or it turns into Street View and use the measuring tool across the top of the screen, the accuracy is usually within a foot or so.

 

 

Excellent, I didn't know there was a measuring tool, Cheers.

[Dockside Cranes]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The links to photos probably isn't your laptop - they are much more likely broken links

Just odd that 99% don't work, shame..

[Dockside Cranes]

Hi all, just spent an hour or so going though the thread, I didn’t realise I was so interested in dockside cranes! Some great pictures. Unfortunately, the links to the photos didn’t work for me, my laptop is probably to blame.

I’m just in the process of laying down the track for a dockside diorama based on Southampton Ocean Terminal. Although I’m a long way from building a Stothert and Pitt crane, what would be useful now though is the gauge of the S&P track.

From some grainy images I have I can estimate the dimensions, be nice to know what they really are without a trip down to Southampton.

Regards

Paul

[Ocean Terminal Southampton]

Just looking at Nine Elms on an an old map, wow it was a massive complex back in the day...

Cheers bécasse.

[Ocean Terminal Southampton]

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate the information. So I guess on a run to Waterloo the the loco would use the turntable there, then once back at Southampton return to Eastleigh for service.

I will order the Ian Drummond book i think..... 

[Ocean Terminal Southampton]

Hi all and Merry Christmas .

Just trying to work a part of the dock system into a track plan and i was wondering how the locos were turned round at the Ocean Terminal in the 1950's.

Paul

[Fareham-Southampton line]

Morning Phil,

What an excellent photo, that is going to be really helpful. thank you for the link to your fathers album.

Regards

Paul

 

[Fareham-Southampton line]

Hi, 

Thank you for the replies, very much appreciated, good to have some pointers. The sound of the Thumper as you call them i recall more than the steam locos. the sound reverberated across the river. I probably won't go as modern as that tho. I've had a quick look at the T9, looks good.  Also it will make compressing the diorama a bit easier with a smaller rake of coaches. 

Cheers

Paul

 

[Fareham-Southampton line]

Thanks info, Ian and Paul,

I'll look up the Maunsell Mogul. 

I have already bought a Bachmann 4MT 2-6-0 as in the lower picture. bit easier to identify from the number. 

I'd like a smaller, say 0-6-0 loco with some goods vans to add a bit on variety.

Paul

 

[Fareham-Southampton line]

Cheers great site, the map is fantastic.

I've a few photos, like this one for instance, )I would need someone to identify the loco). I also have pictures of some bigger locos on the bridges and station, ie West Country Battle of Britain. but none of the smaller loco with local freight.

Paul.

[Fareham-Southampton line]

Hi all,

New to RMweb, I’m not a rail buff,but just always had a love of the steam loco era. Being bought up on the Hamble River, I remember watching the trains run along the river through Burseldon. Retired and locked down now, I would like to build a diorama based on that line. I'd like to base it about the time my parents moved there late 30’s to the late 50’s. So, I’m in need some information what rolling stock would have been on that line around then.

Can anyone point me towards some reference material to help me please.