lather

Positive overpressure ventilation would keep any gas out, so no need for sealing the gaps!

I never realised that the POP train ran that late... And my guess on the 1K02 service is that it most likely does look like the power car tests, as it's heading for Crewe. I guess coming back from Carnforth, they could cut across to Leeds and come back to Derby that way, which is maybe why the return service doesn't appear in the WTT.

I think I've found the reference in the catalogue: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/eac51f5d-4981-4c72-984f-e638e407f2ef "Transformer for Spent Nuclear Core Components" Catalogue reference: U.HW/7/139 Date: 1963 Not much else it could be, really... The Archives are temporarily closed for refurbishment, but should be reopening very soon.

A little while back, I got a copy of the 1979-80 Mandatory Services WTT for LMR Section CM. This includes the line from Derby to Crewe, and one of the services has got me a little puzzled. 1K02 0743 APT Test from Derby R.T.C. (D315, SX, Air, Runs to Technical Department requirements). It is shown as arriving into Crewe Station at 0906. There's no return working shown, so presumably they returned to Derby via another route - if they returned at all... It seems to me that this is too late in time to be the POP Train, and definitely too late for the APT-E (which AFAIK never ran to Crewe anyway). So can anyone tell me what this train was, and what the consist was? I know they had a couple of commissioning trains for the power cars and coach rakes, hauled by the prototype HST power cars. Is that what this is, or something different?

I've always loved this wagon, but there's one thing I've never seen - Does anyone know of any pictures of it on the road bogies? It was, after all, a "road-railer". I know there's been mention of the rail bogies being parked under the canopy at Wick station while the rest of the wagon was off at HMS Vulcan, but actual photos, or even drawings, of the road bogies seem to be non-existent.

The C&HPR had to use tankers to carry water up onto the plateau where the bulk of the line ran because there were no natural sources up there able to supply it in the amounts needed. It was used for the winding engines at the top of the inclines, and for the locos that operated on the flat sections between the inclines. AFAIK, they were never used for drinking water, which would have been carried in cans or obtained from the few springs, streams and wells in the area.

As I've said in my other reply, it's definitely not DHP1 in the picture in question.

Definitely not DHP1 in the picture in question.

In one of the FB groups I'm a member of, which focuses on the Derby to Miller's Dale line, there's a couple of photos of Class 17s on that line. One is dated 1963 and shows one running LE with a BV at Ambergate. Being local to the area, I can tell from the background that its heading towards Derby on the line from Miller's Dale. It's a colour picture and the loco is painted red, which I'm assuming is primer or undercoat, and carrying a headcode of 0T44. The second picture is black and white, and the loco looks a lighter shade than the red one in the first picture. It's seen at Miller's Dale on the down line just on the station side of the viaduct. Again, it carries the 0T44 headcode, but this time doesn't have a brakevan attached. Given the 1963 date of the first picture and the apparent primer/undercoat scheme, I'm assuming some sort of test run prior to delivery. Never knew about them being stored at St Mary's.

While their use in Scotland and Cumbria seems quite well documented, the use of Class 17s elsewhere is less well covered. Thirteen locos were allocated to Barrow Hill shed for a short while, and I've come across occasional mentions of them in the Derby area, but it's always a bit vague. Does anyone have any info on what use they saw in the Derby area, and how widely they strayed from Barrow Hill? I'm particularly interested in any use on the Derby to Rowsley line. Also, did any of them make it as far as Burton-on-Trent?

Now that's what you call Broad Gauge!! 😄

Looking at pictures of HTVs on Paul Bartlett's website, I've noticed several with branding stating that they should be returned to Cambridge. Some of them also carry additional "M.O.D." branding, which I assume means that they are dedicated to some form of Ministry of Defence use. So, the question is (if my assumption is correct), why would the MoD need HTVs full of sand (I know that "to fill bags" is the obvious answer!), would it be trainload or wagonload, where would the traffic originate, and to which destinations?

Looking at the pattern of brackets on the top of the wagon, that looks like a Conflat L.

On the Class 47s in Scotland page at the Leighton Lists website (https://leightonlists.com/class-47s-in-scotland/), there's a picture featuring some container wagons that has me a little puzzled. Near the bottom of the page, there's a picture captioned "47274 at a still busy Elgin yard on September 1st 1983, a Tony Ewer photo". On the left of the image, there's some container wagons, which don't look like the usual FFA/FGA type or similar. The containers themselves also look a little unusual. In comparison with the length of the loco and the photos on Paul Bartlett's site, the wagons look more like the 30ft FBB type, which would make sense for Elgin as they weren't strangers there. The real puzzle are the containers, which look to be painted bauxite or similar, with the arrows of indecision at one end. There's also what looks like a set of side doors in addition to the normal end doors - but possibly only on one side as the second container is facing the opposite way and there's no side doors visible. Anyone know anything about this wagon/container combo?

So one of those intriguing "what if" questions has been rattling around my head this past few days, and I was wondering what other folks thought about it. The Great Central London Extension lines remained pretty much exclusively steam territory right up to closure. Yes, I know that they used DMUs for the Rugby to Nottingham services after closure south of there - I'm talking about when they could run right through from London up to 1966... What I was thinking/wondering was, if diesels had made more of an in-road into the line's working, as they did on the Midland Main Line where most express passenger services went over to diesel-haulage around 1962, what classes would you have seen on the line? Given that Class 31s worked Peterborough to Leicester services on the MML, would it have been logical to have seen them also working Sheffield to Leicester services on the GCR line? And what about the Tinsley/Barrow Hill -based Class 17s and 20s - would you have seen them also working the line south to Nottingham or Leicester? And what about the Tinsley-based Class 37s? As the south end of the line is more Midland Region territory, would Peaks have made appearances on the expresses, or would Class 47s have been more likely? Or maybe Class 40s, given that the southern end of the line is close to the WCML, and the northern end is in the Eastern Region, both EE Type 4 territory?... And what about the stopping passenger and goods services, would Derby Type 2s have been likely on those? Thoughts/opinions, anyone?

Railtours certainly give plenty of leeway for unusual locos in a certain area. But even normal service workings could result in unexpected appearances. One example that comes to mind (helped by a handy book!) was when D1013 Western Ranger was working a Swansea to Leeds service in 1976/77 (don't have the actual date...) and the loco that was supposed to take over the train at New Street (I assume) didn't turn up. As a result, Western Ranger worked the train all of the way through to Leeds. As Buxton was and still is served by multiple units, it's a bit difficult to use that as an excuse. However, some of the stone and lime trains range quite widely from the Buxton area, so maybe there's a possibility there - either a special service for short-term traffic linked to a major infrastructure project or maybe subbing for a failed loco, and stopping in at Buxton TMD for refuelling. Or, here's another thought - Buxton has a football club, so how about a football special for an FA Cup match against a major southern team? That way, you could have an NSE-liveried loco plus a few Mk 1 coaches too...

I've never seen any pictures or heard any repots, either of NSE-liveried locos in general, or a Class 50 in particular. However, NSE-liveried coaches did make it to Matlock when they had a shortage of Sprinters and had to use pairs of Class 20s with a rake of four NSE-liveried coaches.

Era-wise, I'm thinking of the Rail Blue to Sectorisation period, and mainly the London Midland region. And the reason I said without the concrete base is because I'm think about having them as wagon loads, either in bulk from manufacturers to depots or as part of a mixed load from depot to work site.

Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the typical grey metal lineside cabinets, especially the wider double-door ones? I've been hunting online for the sizes, and what little info I've found seems to be too tall and narrow for the ones I'm thinking of, as they all come out at about 6ft tall by 3ft wide, while the ones I'm thinking of seem lower and wider (at least when seen from a passing train!). Also, most of the cabinets seem to have a pitched (i.e. house roof-style) top, or a single-sloping one (sloping from front to back). Are there any that have a horizontal flat top? I'm thinking of the sizes of the metal box part, not including any concrete base below the metal part. TIA.

Thanks for the reply, and I guess you couldn't get a better source! That's the first time I've seen a painted speed/load chart, as every other time they've been the yellow and black version. As for the other marking, the larger image seems to show some 3D to it, as it looks like there's a shadow on the left-hand side, and also on the upper right-hand corner. To me, that suggests that, rather than a painted marking, it seems more like it could be a stuck-on paper label.

In Modelling British Railways vol 4 - Parcels and Mail Trains (Key Publishing, 2021), there's a feature on the ex-Blue Spot SPVs. On page 55, there's a picture of E87897, one of the vans that initially became an SPV, and was then transferred to general freight stock with the TOPS code VXV. Looking at the picture, you can make out most of the markings, but there's a couple on the left-hand end of the van that I can't figure out. The first is down by the solebar, just below and to the right of the chalked number 10. It reminds me of the old wagon speed/load charts, but all the ones I've seen before have been black text on a yellow background, while this is white text painted straight onto the blue bodywork. The second is right up in the top left corner of the body, in the angle made by the end of the body and the cross-bracing and just above where the old "arrow of indecision" has been painted out. Can anyone tell me what these markings are?

Thanks for the detailed reply - I knew someone here would probably know.

Looking through one of my old working timetables, I've come across a service that I'm trying to figure out the formation of. The 1983 to 1984 Section CW freight WTT shows the 0410 WFO 6E25 from Cricklewood to Tyne Yard as a block or concentrated load. Not having the appropriate loads book, I can't look it up there, and I also can't find anything online - apart from it sometimes being worked by a Class 40. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten me as to what this service was? My best guess at the moment is that it could be HEAs from the London-area coal concentration depots to the Tyneside pits. However, it doesn't have the "ABS" tag that you'd expect if it was just those wagons, which implies that it could possibly include vacuum stock. TIA for any help here.

That's great, and exactly the info I was looking for.

Thanks for the masses of information on the general use of barrier wagons over the years - very interesting. However, it doesn't really answer some of my specific questions about oil trains and barriers. Specifically, what types of wagons (e.g. 5-plank opens, 12-ton vans, etc) were most common as barriers around 1970, and when did the requirement for barrier wagons between loco and tanks end on normal oil trains (i.e. those just carrying normal Class A and Class B fuels)?