APT Fan

I'm not sure about the comparison aesthetically but there are definitely comparisons with how the programmes were both cancelled, the decisions were politically motivated. I work in the aerospace industry and I've seen this happen first hand. These things are not cheap to develop and the overall benefits to the country of having the capability to be able to do it in-house outweight the headline costs. In one of my first roles I worked in the design department at Jaguar cars and we were busily developing the XJ41 which would have been a stunning car but then the company was taken over by Ford. They immediately cancelled the project and said that the company needed to concentrate on sorting out the current quality issues. It was a fair criticsm but I never understood why they couldn't do both, afterall the development of new models is the mainstay of car manufacturers - similarities with model railway manufacturers perhaps? My one regret in lfe is not having the opportunity to work in the railway industry, I would have loved it. Also I would have been able to claim that I'd worked on 'Trains, Planes and Automobiles'.

Do you have a large layout to be able to run the APT? I always feel that the APT needs a larger layout in order to do it justice. I've had my old APT from new and used to run it on a large layout at the time, three tracks with two HSTs on the other tracks, they looked fantastic - the cream of British Rail. Now I don't have a decent sized layout so I'm reluctant to commit to a new one at the moment. I think its the most beautiful train ever designed, it has an air of Concorde about it and it just looks 'right'.

Thanks, did you find any issues with extra friction created by added more collectors when hauling loads? I've just carried out some testing and it takes 7.9 secs to cover a 4.2m oval test track with CV150=1. Resetting the decoder gives slightly better speed but its negligible really, still looks like a slow top speed for an HST. The CV change also re-introduced a little bit of stalling, not as bad, so maybe the extra collectors help? I haven't tested without the LEDs yet, so cannot about what load they are drawing. Swapping the other controller in gives me a lap time of 6.4 secs which 'looks' more like it. I'm actually coming to conclusion that a second decoder for motor control is the way to go given the relatively low cost.

So I've converted an early Hornby HST to DCC and fitted it with a Hornby TTS Sound decoder and the Blackcat LED lighting mod. It runs fine around the test track for about six laps and then stalls, sounds the horn and then restarts. I swapped out the decoder for a LaisDCC one and it doesn't skip a beat, controller reports around about 200mA being drawn for either decoder. I thought perhaps the Hornby decoder might be a bit less tolerant of a dirty track, so I tempoarily fitted a large stay alive (15000uF) to the TTS decoder. This involves soldering wires across the bridge and I've used a connector for easy removal. Picking the loco up from the track whilst running showed about 2-3 seconds of stay alive but still the same symptoms of stalling after a few laps. I came to the conclusion that its down to a 'loss of comms' so I implemented the all wheel pickup mods in the article below:- http://www.halton96th.org.uk/article10.html I couldn't get the replacement collector assembly (part X8515) so I used the PCB with modified coach collector approach. This proved problematic as the bogie rides too high causing derailments plus the collectors seem to cause alot of friction. So I swapped the old front bogie back in but left the rear one in meaning that 6 of 8 wheels are still picking up. Its a great improvement but I am wondering whether the most significant change was the CV changes as per the article:- If necessary adjust CV150 to value 1 (regime 2) and/or CV151/152 (regime 1) or CV153/154 (regime 2) to suit the running characteristics of the Ringfield motor. Does anybody have any experience of 'tuning' these TTS decoders for use with the Ringfield motor? I suspect some top speed has been lost since the last changes, I'll do some comparison with that LaisDCC decoder. I've yet to see it hauling loads too, which might be more of a problem without the traction tyres. Thanks.

I'll be honest with you, for what you get I don't think the price of an APT is too bad. I mean you get a complete train not just a single loco which are now hundreds of pounds.

I'm really quite shocked to read about people having to open up and repair a new product, I mean where would you stand in terms of the warranty if the self repair didn't solve the issue? I appreciate that fettling is a big part of the hobby, but this should work straight out of the box and it would be going straight back if it were me. It also has me thinking, I picked up a brand new class 87 last week at an excellent price. I've only had it running on DC but was going to put a chip in when I got round to it. I'm now going to open it up at the earliest opportunity to inspect the main PCB for which I've seen numerous pictures illustrating faulty SMD soldering. I thought it might be isolated, but perhaps not so and I'd like some piece of mind.

My word, sorry I came into this thread tonight.

Sorry yes, I meant upgrade from the old model to the new model, looks nice. I didn't write that very well. I'm surprised how different the colours are on the new model, didn't realise they got the old one so wrong, not that it has ever bothered me in the past. I'm currently and gradually replacing my old locos with newer ones mainly because I prefer the modern mechanisms more than anything else. I'm struggling to find a modern replacement for my HST in classic 80s livery so that's been DCC sound and light converted, but will probably need re-motoring by the look of it. Until now the APT was in the same category in terms of not having a replacement option. I'm just not sure I can justify the £430 when I haven't got a permanent layout at the moment. Then again I'll have an awful lot of work to get mine up to the spec I want and it won't be cheap either. Have to say the old one still looks great though.

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

Saw pictures of the factory fitted capcitor and thought it looked a mess. Why did they fit it that way, surely it doesn't require a massive capacotor for such an application and a better solution could have been found. Just seems like an unplanned after thought to me, The decision to leave the corridor doors open seems a bit odd too.

Yes, so £218 and then if you wanted sound, you'd have to fit it yourself for an extra £100/110. So £330 maybe? That's more than the new Bachmann 47 with sound which I've seen for about £290 which offers more functionality and has the latest tooling. The Hornby 56 will be the same tooling with an 8 pin socket without a factory fitted sound option which traditionally offers a saving. Even with a standard £20 Zimo decoder, we are into £240 and probably £280 by the time it reaches the streets at the end of the year. I think it's healthy that Hornby now have competition in the 56 market and we'll see how that plays out. I've heard it mentioned about the unknowns of what the quality will be like from Cavalex, well they won't have to be perfect to beat Hornby. My Hornby 56 is a good runner with a great mechanism but the build quality is not the best and I'm sick of things falling off when I pick it up, I don't get that with my Bachmann stock. I think this more than anything else is the reason I'm questioning why I'd be forking out £218 for a DC loco. I bought a Bachmann 158 DMU with sound for £270 and its fantastic, love it, I thought that price was really good value for money considering all the features that came with it out of the box.

I am obviously quoting a local model retailer, the model railway part of his business will be reliant in part on selling new loco's rather than secondhand. He has that second hand section because the punters love the rummage boxes but it sounds like that doesn't pay the bills. Looking at his display stock, it looks to me like his high detail stuff from Hornby and Bachmann isn't shifting, some stuff is a couple of years old, he can't price match so going forward it would be a risk to stock such items. He seems to have quite a few of those Hornby 66's - that's the cheap stuff isn't it? This isn't a wealthy area and perhaps if that stock moves then that could be a good market for him and that could be sustainable. If not I could see him dropping the model railway stock and focusing more on other model hobbies which still seem very popular. It just seems to me that the prices are driving the high detail Hornby stock towards being 'specialist'. You have to be really keen to be spending £220-250 on one loco but I do get it, if it is the perfect fit for all your requirements and ticks all the boxes then fine. If Hornby have got that number right in terms of quantities and people prepared to pay the asking prices then fair play, good luck to them. My prediction is that some people might not have the disposal income to spend on such luxury items due to the extraordinary inflation that we will see this year.

I placed a pre-order for this and was expecting to pay £162. It was with a retailer I'd paid £99 for another Hornby 56 only seven months previous to this. Anyway, another retailer has me on their mailing list and as part of the Hornby 2022 annoucement, they mentioned Hornby have had this second %10 price rise on top of the 10% in August, so 20% in five months. I checked the catelogue an sure enough its £218 now. That's simply too much for me now as I have other more important bills to worry about and I certainly haven't had enough of a pay rise just to cover the basic inflation increases which affect life's essentials. As has been pointed out on here these are luxury items and I'm now questioning whether I actually need an item when I look at it given some of the crazy prices. I think there was a bit of a boom in the hobby as a result of the lockdown but I think that bubble could well burst given the return to normal life and people turn to more outdoor hobbies. I was talking to the owner of my local hobby shop who has been trading for many years and he reckons Hornby's pricing could kill the model railway hobby. As he put it, you are now approaching O gauge prices which I always think of as quite specialised. If the OO gauge prices become too prohibitive then perhaps OO gauge will become a specalist hobby too, not sure how that translates into numbers. Anyway, it is what it is and I don't want to come across as a moaner. I'll just vote with my feet, I have other hobbies and will turn to them instead.

Will the Flatbed joiners SL-710FB fit Bullhead track?

I like the idea of a breeze block wall as a foundation and I did wonder about fixing the track to it, so its good to hear that you are happy with pins. I generally prefer screws for fixing most things but breeze blocks don't tend to accept rawl plugs very well. I used to design vehicle electrical systems and volt drop could be an issue on larger vehicles which is the main reason why lorries have 24v systems. I often wonder about this with larger layouts especially with DC, I'd imagine less so with DCC. What size cable have you used for the track wire? Also do you have figures in terms of the total length of the layout, I used to rely on a Ford spec as a guide to cable sizing. Its great to see the BR blue era being modelled in O gauge, they look so realistic.

That looks the business, are those Turbot's carrying the beer bottle's? Nice loco too! In terms of control, I already use DCC systems which can be controlled remotely from an Android phone.

Good morning all, Noting that some O gauge products are now within my budget, I finally took the plunge and purchased my first O gauge loco, this one:- https://www.Dapol.co.uk/7D-008-011-O-Gauge-Class-08-Blue-08173-no-ladder I'm really pleased with it and I think it will be ideal for the light shunting duties I have planned. I'd like to run it on a garden layout and have some ideas in my head but I'm not sure how feasible they are. I haven't drawn up any sketches yet but in essence I'd like to move cans of beer and fish food from my bottom patio up to the top patio to deliver the beer and then on to my garden pond to deliver and hopefully off load the pond pellets. I'm wondering what sort of rolling stock would be appropriate, I guess some sort of flat beds for cans of beers? For the fish pellets, I'm thinking about a hopper, I've seen older one's with manual tipping capability. Is it possible to motorise these mechanism's and add DCC control? The other issue is that I haven't been able to get any Peco track, should I go Bullhead or Flatbed? Also I've read that the bullhead can be joined with SL-10 joiners as used on OO gauge - is that correct? Thanks in advance.

A question to the forum. I assume that a few on here have placed orders for the forthcoming release of the Hornby version of the 56. Are you going to cancel in lieu of one of these or go for both of them?

...And they will sell too! A very popular loco, even the older Mainline one's have a decent level of detail for their age and run well. I have three of the older one's coverted to DCC and fitted with LED lighting and they still look the part. I'm amazed really that no other manufacturers have entered this market until now given how popular they are. Iconic in my eyes.

I notice that the models will have electrically operated roof fans? 'Separately motor operated roof fans via a function output on DCC, or when moving' Is this a unique feature for an OO scale model? I can't think of another and it is something I've always wondered why it isn't more common given the technology available nowadays. Its great to see a 21 pin DCC socket too, the whole project looks extremely impressive if I'm honest.

It would be nice to have an idea of dates from a plnning point of view.

It would be very interesting if this gets to market on or before the Hornby version who are currently expecting 'Winter 21/22'.

Why not fit a Doctor Who figure as the driver? The theme would be that he was bringing a 66 back in time to visit the residents of SMS and protect them from a potential cyber man attack.

Are you going to invest in a 66 when it becomes available Andy? Looks a really good price. I haven't been a massive fan of it in the past but I must admit that it is growing on me, especially in that large logo livery.

Yeah I love Snowdonia, I'm normally a regular visitor so I'm really missing it at the moment. I've always wanted to go to the Mac Loop, but never got around to it. Its a shame you can't see the Tornado blasting through there pulling serious 'G's anymore. I worked on the Tornado or 'Tonka' as we used to know it for twelve years, a fantastic aircraft. I think that the last time I saw them flying might have been the final fly pasts see in the video below. Just to keep on topic, there is also a steam loco in the video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4xwOQ7hMr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAHWCTygrE