Paul2410

Thanks. The NYMR has a limited Safety Case (or whatever it's called at the moment) to run between Battersby (where there is a run round loop) and Whitby via Grosmont (NR). Trains can run up to relevant line speed limits if they are Mk1/2s, but any other stock (if approved) would probably be limited to the "heritage railway" limit of 25mph. The Gresley teaks are also fitted with Pullman-style gangways and buckeye couplers, like BR stock, whereas LMS and GWR stock aren't. All BR-built EMU vehicles from the mid-1950s onwards had buckeye couplers and rubbing plates throughout, so are equivalent to Mk1s and Mk2s. Earlier EMUs were mainly screw-coupled between units or had single-buffer and three-link coupler within units, which would not prevent telescoping in the event of a collision (like Cannon Street involving an SR Bulleid-Design 4EPB unit). All first generation DMU vehicles were screw-coupled. It was only the SR DEMUs which had buckeyes throughout. Paul Raven-Hill, Chairman, TDMRC.

Hello everyone. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. RSSB, Railway Inspectorate, H&SE, will not permit any wooden bodied vehicles anywhere on the national network, because of crashworthiness issues. However, trundling an EMU (wooden or steel bodied) along a heritage railway is another matter, as there is a blanket 25 mph speed limit as "a light railway". Many heritage railways have wooden bodied rolling stock, including the Bluebell, Kent & East Sussex, Mid-Hants (their Bulleid carriages are wooden-framed bodies), IOWSR (all wooden-bodied compartment stock), and so on. I doubt if the NRM would allow the 2BIL or the 2HAP to go out anywhere, as they have pulled out of all heritage steam and diesel operations, except for "Flying Scotsman". Went on holiday to the IOW last week. IOWSR was superb and really well worth a visit. It is possible that they may get one of the IOW 1938 TS units for static display. LT Traction Group is hoping to get another one to go to Epping - Ongar Railway. However, last week, at least three of the units (004, 008, & 009) had been "hit" by mindless graffiti vandals over the weekend of 5th/6th September and they looked a very sorry sight at Ryde Depot, although 008 was back in service after it had been cleaned off, by the time I saw it. I took a lot of photos. It was so sad to see them like that and it must be very demoralising for the Ryde Depot staff and train crews, who have been doing a superb job of keeping these veteran EMUs running for over 30 years since they came to the island around 1990 to replace the "Standard Stock" VEC & TIS units. I did have a return trip on 008 on 9th September and it felt a privilege to be able to ride in it. The acceleration from station stops was rapid and they could still show a fair turn of speed. To say that the ride was "very lively" is something of an understatement, as travelling at about 40+ mph between stations felt more like 80mph! All very nostalgic - passing through Ryde Tunnel (quite slowly) felt like being on the Bakerloo, Northern, or Piccadilly lines once again, even if only for a few minutes. Paul Raven-Hill, Chairman, TDMRC.

As a further supplement to my previous post, the NRM has the HST prototype Power Car 41001 and the first production Class 43 Power Car 43002 (which looks magnificent) and will eventually have 43102/43302, which is one of the two Class 43s (the other was 43159) which set the World Speed Record of 144 mph for a diesel powered train in September 1985, well above its design speed. Paul Raven-Hill, Chairman, TDMRC.

Good Evening All, Thanks for all your recent posts. I seem to have opened up something here. The comments were most interesting. I would agree with virtually all of the points raised. Most electric stock were 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 car units, so storing even a two car unit takes up quite a bit of space. The longer the unit, the more space is needed. There are very few preserved EMUs that would even get a snowflake in hell's chance of running anywhere on the main line network without all the gizmos that modern trains must have, which would compromise the historical value of the vehicle or unit. "Nearholmer" asked if I had collated a list of preserved SR EMUs. I didn't need to. There is a very comprehensive list on Wikipedia at - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preserved_EMUs_of_Southern_Railway, which includes all preserved BR/SR EMUs. I have updated various entries to reflect more recent changes, particularly as a result of the closures of the ERM at Baginton (Coventry) and Finmere Station. The Railway Heritage Register Partnership - Carriage Survey contains a lot of information on virtually all preserved and 'not-so-preserved' scrapped carriages, whether EMU, DEMU, DMU, Loco-hauled, NPCCS, etc, as well as "All Vehicles" or those "At Risk", and their database can be searched, by location, design, builder, type, years, etc. As far as I am aware, the only operational 'preserved' EMU is the LTM's 4TC set (which is comprised of vehicles from several units) and the 1938 TS unit. The Bluebell Railway's Class 423/4VEP 3417 is under restoration by Southern Electric Traction Group at Strawberry Hill Depot to full main line standard, which will no doubt take quite a bit of time, as it has been out of regular use for some 15 years. The NSERS 5BIG (4CIG 1753 & 4BIG TRSB) is now at Nemesis Rail, Burton-on-Trent, for continued restoration to at least main line haulage standard. There is at least one 4VOP and various EMU vehicles at the East Kent Railway. It will be interesting to see when the 5BEL Trust's 4BEL starts test running, although they have two further vehicles (a TPKF and a TPSO) which could make up a 6BEL (Yes, the SR did run one like that shortly after WW2). It has cost them a fortune to rebuild, but good on them for doing it. It just takes very deep pockets and a hell of a lot of engineering expertise! The LTM's preserved vehicles at Acton Depot are mostly single examples, apart from the surviving "Standard Stock" (5 vehicles), the 1938 TS, and the Q Stock cars (2 x Q38, 1 x Q35 Trailer, and 1 x Q23). I visited the Depot a couple of weeks ago, and two of the Q Stock cars (a Q38 DM 4417 and Q35 Trailer 08063) are being worked on by a volunteer restoration team on a fairly regular basis. I know the Engineering Team leader quite well and I am in contact with him from time to time. 4 cars are stored outside (of which three are securely sheeted over) in the yard leading towards Ealing Common Depot, namely the other Q Stock cars, Q38 DM 4416 and Q23 DM 4184, and D Stock DM 7012, as well as a former "A60" Stock Trailer (ex-RAT) 6110, for use with the Q Stock Project. The mention of MLV's as barrier / traction vehicles is interesting, as 8 out of the 10 built have been preserved, mostly by the EPG Preservation Group, and most of their preserved units are presently at WCRC Depot, Southall. As you say, the NRM's sole 4COR DMBTO and 3SUB / '1285' Class DMBT doesn't really cut it, but they do have the 2BIL 2090 and a 2HAP at Shildon. In fact, most of the SR EMUs are now at Shildon, rather than York. It would seem that the NRM are giving scant regard to the preservation of various types of modern electric traction, the most recent being the NBL Class 84001 on loan to the SRPS at Bo'ness, and the SR Class 71 Bo-Bo electric 71001/E5001 (at Shildon) . Class 91 91110 "Battle of Britain Memorial Flight" has been designated for preservation as and when withdrawn, as it is the electric loco world speed record holder at 162+ mph. The NRM has a selection of various diesel locos, all of which are well-known, but which are now more or less "stuffed and mounted" as a result of it pulling out of heritage diesel operation, but only 2 DMUs, a Class 108 'Power Twin' and a Class 142 Pacer 142001. What is worrying is the number of so-called 'preserved' vehicles which are at severe risk of being lost, due to lack of funds and volunteers to undertake restoration, and ultimate scrapping. The large number of vehicles stored at Hope Farm, Sellinge, e.g. the 4DD DMBS, and elsewhere, are a case in point. There is no guarantee of their survival beyond the next few years. Thanks for all your input. The debate goes on. Paul Raven-Hill, Chairman, Twickenham & District MRC.

Better that it is secure safe and dry storage in Margate, awaiting restoration, rather than rusting away and possibly vandalised, in the open somewhere else. Just take a look at the images on the internet ("Railway Heritage Register Partnership - Carriage Survey") of the sole LMS Class 502 unit, which is now in safe storage in Burscough, Lancs, after some time in the open near the WCML at Tebay, Cumbria. Paul Raven-Hill

Good Afternoon All RMWebbers, The ex-4SUB Deicing Trailer (formerly 10400) moved to Finmere Station after closure of the ERM, but was eventually scrapped in April 2020, after the Finmere Station Site closed down and was cleared in readiness for HS2. I have started a new thread on "Preserved SR EMUs", beginning with the locos and stock that were based at Finmere. I will be posting further items about SR and LU EMUs from time to time. Paul Raven-Hill

Hello Everyone, I have just joined RMWeb. I am a member of Twickenham & District Model Railway Club and I am its current Chairmaan. My main interests are London Underground and SR EMUs, model and prototype. I am also a member of London Underground Railway Society. The closure of the Electric Railway Museum near Coventry in 2017 was well publicised at the time, with the removal of all EMU vehicles (as well as several coach bodies) to other locations. Among those was the only surviving 4SUB 4732 and a 4EPB Trailer 15354 which are now safely stored at the Locomotive Storage Ltd site in the former Hornby Warehouse in Margate, along with the only surviving LMS 1938 "Wirral & Mersey" EMU. Less well publicised was the closure and clearance of the former GCR Finmere Station site in North Oxfordshire earlier this year, as it was in the path of HS2, which took over the site, which had to be cleared out. I was interested to find out what happened to all of the railway vehicles on that site, which was owned by the Coulsdon Old Vehicle Engineering Society [COVES], at which the Network SouthEast Railway Society was based, who own a former SR Class 421 4CIG unit 1753 and a 4BIG Buffet Car 69339. There were also a Class 73 73130 (in 'Eurostar' two-tone grey), various Class 416 2EPB DMBSOs, 2 LMR Class 501 vehicles (a DMBSO & DTBSO), a former 4SUB 'Augmentation' Trailer (converted to a Deicing Coach); and an SNCF/Nord Corridor 2nd 7122 (once owned by the NRM). There were also 4 ex-Northen Line 1959 Tube Stock cars, which are privately owned. I was particularly interested in the fate of the four 1959 Tube Stock cars that were moved there some years ago, as I was preparing an article on "Preserved London Underground Vehicles" for a future issue of the London Underground Railway Society's monthly "Underground News" magazine. I had been able to trace the location of all extant complete vehicles, but could not ascertain to where these four cars had been moved, following the closure and clearance of the Finmere site. After making enquiries with the 'Network SouthEast Railway Society', 'The Railway Heritage Register Partnership - Carriage Survey', 'Southern Railway E-Mail Group' and the 'LURS', it transpires that the N.S.E.R.S. Class 421/4CIG EMU 1753 with Class 422/4BIG TRSB 69339 were moved to Nemesis Rail Depot, Burton on Trent, for continued restoration, hopefully to main line condition for haulage. All but one of the remaining ex-BR vehicles there, Class 73 73130 (one of the two fitted with 'Eurostar' Dellner/Scharfenberg couplers), the ex-2EPB DMBSO Sandite units (4 vehicles), the two LMR Class 501 DMBSO & DTBSO vehicles, and the SNCF/Nord Corridor 2nd 7122 (previously owned by the NRM, but de-accessioned and sold a few years ago) were moved to storage on part of the Bicester Military Railway at MoD, Bicester. The 1959 TS cars are DM 1018, T 1034, NDM 9305 and DM 1304, were all ex-Northern Line. I was able to obtain confirmation through LURS that all four cars were moved south from Finmere and are now stored in the yard of Southern Transit bus depot at The Old Cement Works, Shoreham Road, Beeding, near Shoreham by Sea, West Sussex, on the route of the long-closed Shoreham to Christ's Hospital line. There is no public access to this site. The only ex-BR vehicle not to move to Bicester was the former 4SUB 'Augmentation' Trailer S10400, which was converted to a De-Icing Trailer in 1960 and renumbered DS 70087. It was subsequently renumbered ADS70087 about 1970 and again in 1981 to ADB977364. This vehicle was later repainted into NSE livery in the late 1980's and then into Railtrack brown grey and white, and after being allocated to Selhurst Depot, it was withdrawn in 2005, going to store at St. Leonard's Depot until 2010, when it was sold into so-called preservation. It ended up at the "Finmere Station Museum" (along with various other ex-SR EMU vehicles) until early 2020, when the museum closed and the site was cleared, as it was on the route of the proposed HS2. According to the Railway Heritage Register Partnership website - Carriage Survey - 'Finmere Station (scrapped)' shows ADB977364 as: "From St Leonards to Finmere late 2009/early 2010. By 02/12 reported as for sale - but still there 06/14, by which date had been repainted into the sand coloured Departmental livery. N.B. Finmere disused GCR station between Brackley and Quainton Road is a private site: no unauthorised access. 02/20: broken up at James Watson, scrap merchant in Stafford." It was apparently in very poor condition and, although it was offered for sale, there was no interest in it and was scrapped. So this last surviving Southern Railway 1946 'Augmentation Trailer' no longer exists. The only surviving 4SUB vehicles are those in Unit 4732 now located in store at the 1:1 Collection Building (the Hornby Warehouse) in Margate, having been moved there in May 2018 from the closed Electric Railway Museum. It is rather a pity, as 10400 could have probably been a better spares donor vehicle than the ex-4EPB trailer 15354 (from Unit 5176) also currently at Margate. This begs the question as to the future of the very last three remaining 4EPB vehicles of Unit 5176 (2 x Driving Motor Brake Second Opens and 1 x Trailer Second Open) currently at the Northamptonshire Ironstone Railway, which were in a reasonable external condition. The pioneer Class 415/4EPB 5001 (known as "The Green Goddess" in its latter years before withdrawal), which clearly had great historical significance as the first of its class and the pioneer of all of the post-war EPB EMU classes, was unceremoniously scrapped at Long Marston in 2004, after being stored there for some time, but which really should have been preserved, either as a complete unit or at least one of the DMBSOs. It's one of those which "got away"! Paul Raven-Hill, TDMRC.

Hi, I have just joined RMWeb and my interests are SR EMUs, prototype and model. I am a member of Twickenham & Distrit Mo0del Railway Club and I am its current Chairman. I saw the thread on the 4DD units. The 4DD DMBS at Northamptonshire Ironstone Railway is one of only two "preserved" 4DD vehicles. The other DMBS (from Unit 4902) is in store on a private site at Sellindge, Kent (along with a number of other SR EMUs). Both DMBS vehicles are in very poor condition, but as has been said, it will cost a lot of dosh to restore them cosmetically to at least "showroom" condition. Paul Raven-Hill