colmflanagan

It's looking well now. I like the increased sense of "space" many layouts are rather spoiled by being too cluttered - if they are meant to be outside a busy urban area! Colm

Work has been progressing steadily on the layout, though much of the work is wiring which is mostly hidden from view; being DC each section has it's own cab control selector so we are moving slowly and steadily making sure each one does what we want it to before moving on; there's still a lot to do! Meantime, some pictures of track work at Strangford station (as it will be eventually); the station can run round a train of 3 57' coaches though the platform can hold up to five at a pinch - any longer "excursions" can be shunted by the branch engine which will be shedded here.(the engine shed will be at lower left hand corner of the top picture). A short bay allows railcars to come and go without fouling the run round area.. Local industries will include a small distillery and a quayside allows cargoes to be landed or goods exported by sea to Scotland - (maybe) from a "puffer"! In the background of this pic you can see where the "main line" storage loops will be situated;a test NCC Class Y is on a materials working. The line appearing from underneath is the "Killyleagh" branch and to the far left is the Quoile estuary An overhead view of the track

Well, here are a few pics of the early days of construction - the layout is DC controlled, and is NOT portable! I'll post a track plan in due course but the control panel is a mimic diagram so you'll see it isn't a simple circuit....We started with the reversing loops and soon this area will be capable of a level of automated working - this is one area where DC is a bit complicated as we need both local and remote control of sorts in this area. Only small locos (0-6-0s, 4-4-0s) and trains (2-3 coach max) will come down here as it's in theory the Killyleagh branch. For simplicity and space Ken is using Hornby radius 2/3 curves and points; the flap lifted in the picture is going to be storage sidings and a Heljan turntable for the upper main line. This small area will have two local controllers so that on a running night with up to 3 operators this will be one of the operating positions. It'll be interesting as you can't actually see most of the layout from in here! A picture of the control panel - which gives a clue to the layout design -. there are two continuous "runs" , and a number of branches, (Killyleagh, Strangford), sidings to a mill (Shrigley) and a little pier area.(see history) - plus 5 storage loops and the turntable/sidings area (Downpatrick and Belfast) The panel gives an indication of which controller "cab" is selected on the sections, and the 30 odd points will be operated on the main panel by stud and probe, with passing contact levels elsewhere - there are also two auxiliary panels to go in,as well as the loops area... Some parts will have levers and the plan is to have the layout pretty well fully signalled. Finally, some shots taken a couple of weeks ago as work progresses. Kilmore Junction site - the main station. Gaugemaster twin controllers with simulation. The reversing loop position is behind the backscene on the right. Looking towards the storage loops - these are on the left of the control panel diagram - the reversing loops and turntable, which aren't on that panel in detail, are on the right, the other end of the layout. Site for Strangford Station The entry to the reversing loops Kilmore Junction control panel in situ - but a lot of connections still to be made - fortunately it lifts up! The river crossing area - the Strangford branch in the foreground, the main line to Belfast etc., behind and higher up - it will be a girder bridge of some sort. More will follow as we make progress.. .

Well, I suppose it had to happen. Ken recently moved house and so there was no model railway for some time as other jobs had to be done before the authorities gave permission for the railway to occupy the garage. The new site is approximately 12' x 15' so the new line will be more of a branch feel than Cookstown Junction. It will also have gradients and everyone knows how much fun they are -if Bleach Green is anything to go by! Some pics of the site back in march with work just beginning. As many of you will know, some of us warped persons just love writing bogus histories and ken gives his layouts the initials S&D J R so what would this one be? Well, see below for another slice of Northern Ireland's alternative railway past - the story of the Strangford & Downpatrick joint Railway. All the places mentioned do/did in fact exist. THE STRANGFORD & DOWNPATRICK JUNCTION RAILWAY The Strangford &Downpatrick Junction Railway began life as a scheme to link the small port of Strangford, at the mouth of the fast flowing Strangford Lough in east County Down, with the county town Downpatrick, as well as Belfast and Dublin. A local landowner in the Strangford area, Edward Ward, 4th Viscount Bangor, whose family seat was Castle Ward, promoted the scheme, and gathered substantial local support for it, as well as from prominent businessmen from the town of Downpatrick, eight miles away to the south west. Not unusually, the plans included a halt to serve the Ward’s 18th century house, with trains stopping “on request”. The plans involved a harbour station at Strangford itself; the railway then ran, with no intermediate stations except the halt at Castle Ward, to a station which would be known as Strangford Junction, about 3 miles north of Downpatrick. The railway crossed the Quoile river by means of a seven arch stone bridge, the most significant structure on the line, which ran through marshy ground near the Quoile and then through relatively level gaps between the drumlins which abound in this part of the county. Here the line met the Belfast & County Down Railway running north and south. From there the promoters envisaged a doubling of this line through to Ballynahinch Junction station, where a chord to the south would then allow through running to Ballynahinch itself. This station was planned to be a through station in 1858 and here the running powers for the S&DJR would end, but good connections were expected to Banbridge and further south to Dublin. With this plan moving ahead the S&DJR was confident of success. Before the plans went to Parliament a branch to serve the lough side village of Killyleagh was added. This ensured the active support of another powerful and influential landowner in the area, the Hamilton family, with access to new funds. With this level of backing the plan passed Parliament in 1870 . The line presented no major difficulties though some issues were experienced with the marshy ground round the Quoile River. It opened in 1872 and was to be worked throughout it’s independent existence by the B&CDR, whose engineers and surveyors oversaw the contractors carrying out the construction works. Regrettably, despite the optimistic plans, the link west to Dromore or Banbridge was never built and as a result, the grandiose plan for making Strangford a cross channel terminus for shipping from Dublin or Belfast, was always a long shot doomed to failure, like Donaghadee further north. The small port generated a certain amount of agricultural traffic outgoing and domestic coal incoming; but little else. In the early years of the 20th century, with coastal cruising becoming popular, the company experimented with a paddle steamer on Strangford Lough –this served some of the villages on its shores in winter, as well as summer pleasure cruises. However, the services did not resume after World War 1. The Killyleagh branch never generated much traffic either, and had an increasingly sparse service during the 1920’s. Although through train services to Belfast and Dublin had been envisaged this never really happened. Goods trains did run through, but passengers from both Killyleagh ( 3 trains a day) and Strangford (6 trains per day) had usually to change at the junction; the double track was never actually laid northwards. For a while, under the LMS, the line was upgraded to take NCC Mogul engines and the “Narrows Express” ran non stop from Strangford to Belfast (the reference being to the fast flowing inlet which separated the south and north sides of the lough) - but this was a short lived experiment and Strangford was unable to emulate the success of Whitehead or Bangor as a seaside commuting line. The BCDR and later managements ensured that there were reasonable connections at Kilmore both south and north. The junction was renamed “Kilmore Junction” after an irate lieutenant colonel had sued the company for damages and misleading advertising, when he alighted at “Downpatrick” Junction only to find himself stranded for the night! During the Second World War, the area round the Quoile was used for commando training; this was conducted in great secrecy; and the troops were brought in by boat to a small jetty (a relic of the paddle steamer days); an existing siding was used for occasional trains carrying supplies and regular troops to provide a smokescreen for what was really going on.. It was also given out that the area was being used for experiments in new marshland food growing techniques. In the 1926 the BCDR board made approaches to the LMS railway, and as a result the BCDR was taken over and their network came under the control of that company’s Northern Counties Committee. Until after the 2nd World War this organization carried out considerable re-organizations, including upgrading of track, and transfer of locos and stock - some LMS types began to run south of Belfast. It was common to see a BCDR 4-4-2 tank on the Strangford branch train at Kilmore, while the main line saw regular services pulled regularly by the 4-4-0 types of the NCC. Railcars were regular performers on the Killyleagh branch. When the GNR got into financial difficulties in 1953, their routes were divided up and the northern routes were worked by British Railways, the railways of the north then coming under unified control known as BR(NI) region. The NCC operated lines were retained under BR control after nationalization in 1948 As a result GNRI types were occasionally to be seen, in particular the “U” class 4-4-0s which were regular performers on the Strangford line, as it was generally known. The end of the second World War saw the LMS had begun to consider the situation in the light of changing patterns for transport, and gradually under BR the system was cut back, with the Killyleagh branch being first to succumb, in 1957, followed by the Strangford line in 1963, when Kilmore Junction was also downgraded to a halt – it had had extensive facilities having been the hub of the SDJR and a village had grown up around it – but the railway facilities had in any case been progressively abandoned after the war. The 1960s saw further retrenchment, with the closure of the BCDR’s Ballynahinch and Ardglass branches. The system as left with the BCDR “main line” to Newcastle, the branch to Donaghadee, saved by the growth in commuting to the seaside areas of North Down, and of course the branch to Bangor – the main “earner” of the county Down railways. Services were dieselized with the new railcars developed in York Road and the famous “Blue Pullman” project even saw this once prestigious train on driver familiarization runs, though they did not enter revenue service on this line, being reserved for the exNCC main line to Londonderry. Sadly, the privatisation of BR in the nineties meant that the entire railway system in Northern Ireland came under threat. No private company came forward to operate any of the network, and as a result the combination of an unsympathetic civil service and apathetic ministers from England meant that the writing was on the wall for all except the busiest lines. The County Down lines were all closed in early 2000 as the money for new trains to operate simply was not available, indeed the Dublin line was the only one to emerged unscathed - after financial intervention by the Dublin government. The Bangor line was also spared, but the old NCC lines fared badly, the “main line” being closed north of Ballymena, and the Larne line terminated at Carrickfergus. In the event the “new” trains turned out to be redundant BR Class 41 railbus type vehicles, and some refurbished Class 101 railcars, which did little to attract traffic on the remaining routes. By 2016 only the Dublin line retained any local services at all, and through trains were operated by Dublin based 3 car “Inter city” railcars. A leaked government document envisaged complete closure in two years and at time of writing (2016) there seems little reason to believe otherwise. ....And there'll be more pictures of the actual railway in due course.!!!

Hi Kieran, less can be more and the irish railway system rarely looked busy - certainly nto outside Dublin or Belfast! Colm

David's reply certainly is a good way of preventing some of the issues with 4-4-0 r-t-r chassis. I've just had a session with ken Gillen's "OO Works" U class which runs very well -no signs of the problems which I know some others have been having. I do note that attempting to propel the train the front bogie wheel lifted slightly so the wheel turned intermittently, turn but this is a problem I've had with other locos, including Hornby Dublo 2-6-4 tanks! Although she could pull 6 Bachmann Mk1s on my relatively flat layout, (see attached youtube video for anyone who hasn't seen one of these) we think that 4 would be a comfortablenumber for this small loco. having said all that I am not sure if the "Bundoran Express" ever had sleeping cars attached.... Colm

I've just had a quick look at Ken Gillen's model, though as his new layout is still at a very early stage, we weren't able to run it on test. It certainly looked a lovely little loco and while I make no claims to being an expert on GNRI locos it seems to capture the "look" - surprising when you s see a scale 4mm model just how small these locos were compared to many English 4-4-0s. PS Leslie, for a "fix" on your VS try a bit of weight in the boiler over the wheels, there should be some room in there - despite the traction tyres they can still "skid". Colm

I'd be inclined (having come thus far) to drop the cab roof by a mm or two, it does seem to sit a bit "high" to me. It may well make it "incorrect" but the whole loco is likely to be a bit small, as is my own one, No 30, based on an ancient "K's kit made in the 1970s. All I used of the K's model (from the footplate up anyway!) was the boiler/smokebox and chimney/dome. In the end the general "look" is the most important thing, especially when (as in all conversions) it can never be 100% "right" anyway! I've been thinking of doing my own Oxford loco but I think I'll do complete new side tanks, cab, bunker etc.as before. For comparison, No 12 was built from a Craftsman GNR C12 4-4-2 and isn't 100% satisfactory either, she just looks a wee bit too "tall" to me despite being based much more closely on the only drawings i have, which may not be all that accurate anyway. Since the picture of 12 was taken I replaced the chimney which was a GNR style one and quite wrong.. Ho hum, never satisfied, though. Those are excellent pics of the Fred Graham models - the Baltic just makes me want one in 00......but as yet i haven't been able to find a suitable donor chassis. I doubt if any English railway had anything like the BCDR locos. Colm 2 pictures of No 30 on my previous layout: No 12

Isn't it great fun modelling the out of the ordinary machines which ran (however unsuccessfully in some cases) on our railways in NI? I'm hoping over what to do next, though I've ashelf of stuff waiting patiently... Colm

all fascinating, but aren't we getting just a teeny weeny bit "off topic" - it makes stuff harder to find. later on should anyone want to! What about one of you starting a new thread on MEDs which can refer to this exchange for anyone else interested?. Colm.

Ian Sinclair has seen a photograph of the earlier Antrim cabin (though he can;t currently remember where it was!) and it was a Midland style box as above. As regards colours, again, anyone's guess, though I think green cream in NCC days unlikely. The NCC box at Magherafelt was a salmon walls/tan window frames which would have been regular LMS practice. In MRNCC days the door/window frames might have been crimson and the woodwork white/cream. Colm

Most interesting; it is unlike any other BNCR/NCC signal box I've seen, and doesn't look like a Berkeley Deane Wise structure at all, so I assume it predated the station rebuild by Wise in 1901/2. Does the kit give any historical info about it - when it was built/closed etc.? It clearly predated the present (disused) box at the Antrim end of the station.

That's the first model I've seen of that type of loco. It looks impressive (the model, not the locos,which weren't). You could have it pull a couple of coaches in NIR maroon "steam" livery at a pinch, as well as doing some shunting and engineering turns. They lurked at York Road most of their lives, it seemed to me. Three baby GM types would have been much more useful, but at that time NIR was pretty well wedded to BR type thinking, and and BR had plenty of DMUs for branch and lightly loaded trains.. Does anyone know if the DH class actually operated any passenger trains - I think not, but I did hear stories of a railtour planned.. Colm

The intermediate coach could be got by using an LMS pattern non corridor type - possibly a modified old Graham Farish one (not the Dapol/airifx type which had a toilet- passengers travelling in this vehicle just had to hold on. It had a long life, this coach, not scrapped finally until 1971. In later years 6&7 did not run with a trailer. Not quite right, as its a wee bit short (57 rather than 60'). Another possibility (also 57') would be the newish Hornby LMS/BR suburban coaches - better bogies, fabulously smooth runners with much more detail - if you really want to be fussy you could remove the Stanier style ribs on the roof and repaint in LMS grey rather than silver. And you could repaint the interiors in the UTA's lovely drab green for the upholstery. An MED smooth sided set built some years ago with intermediate of a similar type - GF as above. (this uses a BR Class 101 front end from an ancient Tri-ang model. I'm quite happy with it. And to be honest if I were doing 6&7 I'd use Allen sides and these ends, lazy person that I am....) In fact I do my units a bit narrower than they were, which slightly distorts the head on look but makes life a lot easier in other ways. Of course, if you're running 21mm for 100% accuracy...but I will not go there. Anyone up for modelling the early Ulster railway on 6'2" ( 24.8 ish mm...)?? That'd keep someone busy for a while. Colm

Most interesting, reading all this sent me back to DD for another look. I had not commented on the styling differences between 6 & 7 and the first batch of MEDs. Indeed I had thought they were pretty much the same. I still think that, looking at the various angles and so forth, including the pictures in Derek's book referred to, that the front end of 6/7 was virtually the same profile as 8,9 etc., the main difference being bits of beading (if that's the right term) above and below the cab windows on the former; the front panel under the windows is pretty well vertical, (the lamps are slightly different). Also (despite what the drawing suggests) the upper cab and windows slope back a bit with a very slight curve;certainly in 4mm I'd be happy with flat - and the windows are indeed flat. I agree with David that the front was flat "from side to side", The profile isn't dissimilar to NCC railcars 3 & 4, though its hard to tell about them - livery in some cases obscures the actual body lines.. I actually wonder about some of the drawings made in the UTA era, and would always ultimately go by the way the car appears in photos. But full marks to Kieran for spurring Allen Doherty on to make these etches and being brave enough to "have a go". at the less known units.. Well, that's my hap'orth.! If only there were some preserved so we could really see. Anyone for a dip in Crosshill Quarry?? Colm

I never like mixing paint as I can never (for some reason) get it the same twice - i understand the companies in days past had the same problem. However, on our model of the 1953 "Royal Train" which was painted at Dundalk, I used Precision Paints M291 (military - navy) Oxford Blue, and Humbrol Gloss Ivory for the cream and they satisfied me OK. I used Humbrol Oxford Blue on one coach but I thought it looked a bit greyish by comparison.(NCC Chairman's Saloon, middle coach in set, sometimes you notice the difference, sometimes you don't) Of course "each man must do what is right in his own eyes" Colm

Welcome to this forum. In one fell swoop you've become the most read subject!! Colm

Hi, I'll maybe have a look on ebay though I can't really justify a Belfast Corporation Daimler in either Coleraine or Donaghadee -possibly the latter on a seaside "special".! As regards moving the thread, the answer is, I have no idea. I'll try and ask Andy York who may know. Colm

buses...sacrilege. Actually it's a great idea and someday I may model a UTA depot, with rusting steam locos on a siding in the background (!) The Daimler buses were very attractive and way ahead of their time. I presume yours is an EFE/Corgi model? I'd have liked to get one of those.but presume they were a ltd edition. Colm Flanagan

" From what I have read these engines had lots of individual modifications so no two were exactly the same? Mike" Hear, hear. The "pipe" which may or not be removed is a case in point - a study of Bill Scott's definitive book leaves one still guessing at what engines had it as shown on 74 and Kirley;s model, and others didn't - like nelson's loco. Some seemed to have a pipe of some kind running down to the footplate a bit further forward. And of course we haven't got close up sideways photos of every single engine on that side. I just wish some English company had had a 4-4-0 with the short drivers wheelbase and 6 foot wheels the NCC favoured, but I've not found an r-t-r one yet, and probably never will. However, we run about 6 of these 2P "converts" in various liveries on Killagan and Bleach Green and they'll do us for now! Colm

I have to say I like the UTA lined black also; but crimson lake is attractive; I plan to do the "one off" experimental liveried No 90 in brunswick green sometime. For those who like their pictures moving, here's a little movie. https://youtu.be/7eRIvS9oYLY

last month I completed another Mogul, the first I've done in NCC colours, as No 100 "Queen Elizabeth"., using HMRS lining transfers and some from Railtec here's a few pics of her on trial on the Stranraer Coleraine & Donaghadee Railway before being re-gauged and sent north to Scotland to her new home. Owing to a strange obsession on the part of her new owner,, No 100 will be fitted with a digital device with emits noises. What will they think of next? And a PS - Railtec have produced two sheets allowing LMS NCC brandings, numbers, door classes, and dining/buffet car emblems so now there's no excuse for not renumbering all those Bachmann/replica/mainline LMS coaches some of us run as NCC. Maybe UTA numbers would be useful?

I don't know anyone who has ever tried it, WW brass bits aren't simple to put together and may need an good deal of work, you need to know what you're doing with them. I stick with plastic for these engines. Colm

Another possibility is Phoenix Paints P752 GNR lining green if you don't mind paying the postage - cripplingly expensive if you happen to live in N Iireland or the less favoured Scottish postcode areas!

Having done many coach projects like yours, in all honesty, the word "tedium" has to be high on the list of adjectives, especially building a batch, as you are! Your speed continues to impress me. I have used the comet stuff, but it might be worth while checking out "southern pride" who do seating as well for Mk1 and Mk2 coaches - especially for open coaches, they do separate seats. (you cannot order on line from them by the way, but I have found them pretty quick by post. I look forward to seeing some 50s and 60s CIE trains on your layout. Colm