mike knowles

I didn't realize you would be asking questions later!

So that's were we're going wrong with our layout, all the bolts and screws in one box, a pair of pliers instead of socket wrenches and the stock in a variety of Bachmann/Hornby/Heljan etc boxes! Seems we also need to grow beards! Saw the layout on Sunday - was mightily impressed.

Fabulous job on the inspection saloon Brian. I somehow knew you'd get yours done before I did mine (no contest really, I haven't even started mine yet!)

Jim Smith Wright has done some of these using a Cambrian SPA chassis (I think) and an etch from Colin Craig, for details refer to the wagon section in the workbench thread on his web site. I have some waiting to be done, I also plan to use the BB etched W Irons so look forward to seeing how you get on!

The layout has now done it's first exhibition, well our club's open day last Saturday 5th October. At least it gave us the opportunity to assemble all four of the boards together. A few photographs of it below graced with Lord Flasheart's JLTRT 50027 Lion, Heljan Class 20 and a selection of wagons plus the Penguin of Doom's Class 27(converted from a Heljan Class 33 ) and Mark 2 TSO (built from 2 Triang Big Big coaches). Edit - the BG is an Easybuild kit by Lord Flasheart.

Probably best to get some plain (unscented) talc. If Mrs P walks into your railway room and gets a whiff of her best Yves St Laurent talc the game'll be up!

That might be me!

Mmmmm no update since last November! But no, we haven't given up and gone off to play tiddlywinks, it's just that layout wise not a lot has happened for various reasons. I mentioned previously that the layout was going into store whilst we prepped our previous layout Battersby North End for last years Warley Show (unfortunately we don't have enough room to erect both layouts at the same time). Well following the show we decided to re-hash the point and signal operations, converting the points to servo operation as per the signals and grouping all the controls in one panel at the end of the layout. In addition we installed a laptop with the operating sequence for the signaller to use complete with a second display screen for the viewers to see (an idea blatantly copied from Bradfield Gloucester Square). Anyway this took longer than expected and was only just completed in time for the Middlesbrough Show in May. Following this a few further jobs were done before the Redcar Show last month. Anyway Battersby is now back in store and other than our open day on 5th OCTOBER (hint, plug, don't miss it!) it won't be required until the Wigan Show in June next year so now we can get cracking on the 7mm layout again. First job has been to connect the dropper wires from the track laid so far to the buss bars. These were then temporarily connected to a DC power supply and controller (we're still saving up for the 7mm decoders) to enable an intensive session of testing to be carried out before laying any more track (i.e. playing trains!) So last night we brought our locos and the photos below show the testing in progress. The eagle eyed amongst you will probalby have noticed the Penguin of Doom's quite superb Class 27 and MK2 coach conversions as detailed elsewhere on this forum. Probably the most pleasing aspect was the smooth running of the Heljan locos straight out of the box and also the way the locos and the rolling stock glided smoothly through the pointwork. The latter being justiification for going with O-MF standards and so thanks to whoever invented it and also thanks to Debs for producing the gauges to enable us to build it. Finally a picture of a PRMRP motor bogie with some temporary (and very dodgy) pickups which also ran faultlessly (if somewhat more noisily than the Hejan locos) I must adjust the delrin chain before anyone mentions it! The plan is to use them under a Heljan Class 26 bodyshell we have acquired. I'll try to keep the updates coming more reularly in future!

Whilst on holiday in the Yorkshire Dales earlier this month I managed to cop these at Hellifield on Monday 3rd June; Two days later I did a walk from Ribblehead to Blea Moor Tunnel entrance and on the way back got them again: They actually stopped for a while at the box to let a couple of passenger turns through which enabled me to get to the viaduct and get these; When setting off from the box I must say the driver gave it some on the brief run up to the viaduct! All these sitings were pure luck, I had no prior information, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time! If only I was as lucky with the lottery!

At last an update! The photos below show the current state of the track building, coming along slowly but surely but remember it only gets worked on one night per week. The next photos show an initial build of one of the PRMRP bogies for the Class 26/27 build. Pleased to say it runs fine through the pointwork (when pushed by hand) but I'm thinking that the addition of some basic three point compensation would be easy to do and would help with adhesion/pulling power and pickup so I'll give it a go and report later. At the moment progress is temporarily halted whilst we get our other layout, Battersby North End, prepped for Warley but once this is out of the way I aim to make a start on the chassis for the Class 26/27 so we can get something running under its own power to fully test the trackwork. Again I'll update on progress, for progress on the bodywork see the Penguin of Doom's Occasional Diesel Detailng thread. We've also been busy aquiring kits for rolling stock, so far we've got: 3nr Easy Build coaches 2nr Slaters vanwides 1nr MMP dogfish 2nr EMKDE catfish 1nr PRMRP VDa van 2nr Lima (I think) mk2 coaches (to be converted into one "scale" coach These are in addition to te three Parkside Grampus wagons already built (see earlier post) So, plenty to do, but there's no rush. Finally for now are pictures of some cottages I took on a recent holiday. They are on the A6105 road between Duns and Eyemouth (at I think Foulden) and I think perfectly capture the traditional architecture of the area. Plans are to (eventually) model them in low relief and put them along the back of the layout. More soon (hopefully)

I did this some time ago (hence some of the prices may be out of date) - see attached. Track cost comparison 4mm.xls Track cost comparison 7mm.xls Whilst it showed that hand built pointwork could be domne for less than the cost of RTR Pco points it was still way above the budget restrictions of this thread. Great thread by the way, as others have said the weathering in paricular is really excellent.

Following on from my initial attempt with Templot I went back to the computer and did a few tweaks which resulted in a much better print out. The photos below show the majority of this stuck down (with cork underlay beneath) and the sleeper timbers installed on the three way turnout. I must say that despite my inadequacies with computers I have to give Templot a big thumbs up. I've since used it to produce the template for a P4 layout I'm (trying) to build at home. Admittedly much smaller and simpler but it took me about an hour to draw, then I was able to print it out on two sheets of AO paper and stick the whole thing down in one operation in about ten minutes. Fantastic! Follwing on we have been busy laying sleepers and (tara!) the first two pieces of rail have been installed (two common crossings on the three way turnout). The photos below show the current state of play. A long way to go, but hopefully we shoud have something running over a short stretch of track in the not too distant future! Finally I mentioned previously we were looking to upgrade some Lima Class 33's to 26/27's. Well we have now obtained some bits to produce a running chassis from PRMRP and the first bodywork conversion will be started soon by fellow club mate and well known butcher of rtr diesel loco bodies "The Penguin of Doom". Discussions last week left us faced with the prospect of cutting the Lima body into about 12 pieces in order to overcome the inaccuracies in length, width and height. Sean will record progress on his "Ocasional Diesel Detailing Thread" in due course, i will show progress on the chassis on here. More to follow soon hopefully.

Ab Fab Sean, just think how much extra detail you'll be able to add to the O gauge one!

Apologies for the delay in replying. Basically after a large dose of Martin Welch's book "The Art of Weathering", the wagons were first given coat of Humbrol Matt Black acrylic (from an aerosol). The transfers were then applied and sealed with some matt varnish. Weathering then consisted of washes of Railmatch acrylic frame dirt and Tamiya acrylic flat brown which were applied liberally then removed using cotton buds, leaving the paint in the corners etc. Finally the whole thing was toned down with a light application of dark brown from the Carrs shades of mud weathering powders pack. Hope this helps

Almost 2 months since I last posted on here, but no, we haven't given up! Progress has been interrupted by getting our other layout prepped for the recent Cleethorpes Show, holidays etc and as I said earlier, being a club layout it only gets worked on on club nights, 3 hours once a week. Anyway enough of the excuses, what progress have we made? Well I mentioned previously that I was going to give Templot a go. Now let me say firstly that I don’t like computers, I have to use one all day at work and the prospect of spending my precious modelling time tapping away at one in the evening did not appeal at all!. However in the name of science, progress or whatever I’ve given it a go and have to admit the programme is extremely clever and full marks to Martin (Wynne) for developing it, but because it can do everything it does take to time to “learn†it. A bit like learning what all the functions on your TV recorder/Digital camera can do – do we ever do that? Basically I initially looked at the tutorials, read the instructions and studied posts on the forum then I spent about 6 sessions of 1-2 hours duration just playing with the programme and finding out how to use it without actually trying to design a layout. Once I was reasonably confident I then started on the template for our layout and about a further 6 hours work produced an initial draft template which I was able to print out. This was laid out on the baseboards and enabled me to see what modifications were needed, mainly the adjacent track centre needed increasing and a couple of the turnouts moving along a bit. To check this I actually cut the template up and moved it about until everything fitted, a bit old fashioned and definitely not high tech, but then neither am I! The pictures below show the results. The observant of you will notice that I have cheated a bit and used the C&L template for the tandem three way turnout as I didn’t feel confident of replicating this on Templot. In some ways I feel a bit embarrassed showing this but would reiterate any shortcomings are purely mine, not Templot’s and apologies to Martin Wynne for my ham fisted attempts with his programme. I have now revised the layout on Templot and will print out a revised template ready for next weeks meeting which hopefully will fit better. Moving on. Construction of the three way turnout has commenced, using the C&L template, so far the sleepers have been glued down and the first common crossing chaired up and fitted with its dropper wire ready to be glued down next week. See photos below. Finally my son Robert has been busy building some Parkside Dundas Grampus wagons with the results as seen below. Hopefully the next update will not take so long!

Cheers Martin, I'll give it a try. Should the tip of the screwdriver be narrow enough so that it just makes contact with the web of the rail (between the flanges), or should it be wider to extend over the flanges and so bear on the edges of these. I'm concerned the latter may cause the flanges some damage.

Following on from construction of the crossing vees, time has now come to convert them into common crossings by adding the wing rails. So taking a piece of rail slightly longer than required the knuckle bend was formed roughly in the middle by clamping the rail in a vice (soft jaws) , holding the side of a large flat file against the free end and giving it a firm push. I was concerned that the top flange may buckle as a result of this but happily it didn’t. Having assembled the crossing vee in the jig and hopefully got the angle somewhere near correct, the photo below shows how the angle of the wing rail was checked using the vee and a straight edge, it’s worth taking a bit of time to get this right. One end can then be trimmed to length and the lead in flare formed, the other end which abuts the closure rail will be trimmed later when the complete turnout is assembled. The other wing rail is made similarly but opposite handed. A piece of brass strip is then soldered to the underside of the crossing vee, see below. Right, time to get out the track and crossing slip gauges from Debs. The photo below shows the use of a straight edge and a slip gauge to locate the first wing rail which is then soldered to the brass strip. Turning it right side up results in this; A combination of the track and slip gauges is then used to locate the other wing rail while it too is attached to the brass strip (this time assembly is done right way up). Another piece of brass strip is then soldered under the wing rails. Resulting in this; I then had a change of plan! The two brass strips shown above where positioned to lie between the sleepers, I then decided to position the under the sleepers so further strips were added and the originals removed. Also a third strip was added directly under the crossing vee nose to ensure this remained accurately located relative to the wing rails. A bit of cleaning up resulted in this; A final check was made by running one of the slip gauges through the crossing. Starting at the free end of the wing rail and keeping the gauge tight up against it you should be able to slide it along and it should just clear the crossing vee nose and continue on through the gap between the vee and the wing rail with a snug but free sliding fit. See below. Next job was to make up the switch rails and closure rails which I make as one piece and just add a cosmetic joint. Again cut a piece of rail slightly over length, mark the length of straight planing required (shown on the C&L templates), lay it on its side and clamp it to the work bench. Then using a large flat file, file a taper across the full width until you just start to break through the web. It’s best to make the taper slightly too long, if it’s too short the blade won’t sit flush with stock rail - this is the side of the switch rail which site against the stock rail. Turn the rail over and file just the top flange on the other side so that you end up with a nice sharp edge. The photos below hopefully show the results. Finally the photos below show the common crossing and switch rails laid out on the templates as bit of gratuitous self congratulation!

No problem but lets see if this one works first!

In between bouts of gardening a start has been made on making sleepers for some of the turnouts, in particular the three way tandem turnout at the entrance to the station, along with a “normal†two way turnout. As with the plain track sleepers shown earlier these were also cut from the same sheet of 1/16th inch plywood. The following three photos show them laid out on the track templates and numbered accordingly (note they are only laid loose on the template at this stage and are not stuck down, so please don’t write in to say I’ve been sloppy with their positioning!). In the third photo the sleepers numbered 13 and upwards have been sanded to correct size, those numbered 12 and below are just “as cutâ€. Hopefully you can see the difference but also appreciate that not a lot of trimming is needed. I use my vernier calipers to set the marks for cutting, as these are imperial, I set them at 20 thou over the required size. Temptation then got the better of me, well I must admit I really enjoy track building, so gardening was abandoned for a while to start making the crossing vees. The next sequence of photos show the rails being filed to suit, being assembled in a home made jig made from scraps of wood and ultimately the finished article after a spot of cleaning up and finally laid in place on the sleepers. The two vees at the end will be trimmed to length when the turnout is assembled on the layout. The book that originally got me going with track building was Iain Rice’s “An approach to Building Finescale Track in 4mmâ€. Although first published in 1991 and really centred around ply and rivet construction it still provides much useful information for both modelling techniques and prototype details, well worth buying even now. Finally I keep mentioning the size of everything compared to 4mm, well I’m finding that the even things like files as shown on the left below, which have been quite adequate for 4mm modelling are somewhat inadequate now, so time to bring out the big boys toys! The thing on the right is a lollipop stick covered with emery paper which I find very useful for final finishing.

I think it's Jacobean Dark Oak (left the tin at the club so can't check). Sorry about the blurred picture - I'd only had a coffee!

A bit more progress. All four baseboards are now finished and sealed with a coat of varnish (loving kiss?). The pictures below show three of them assembled (we currently don't have room to assemble all four together!) and hopefully show how the quayside fits along the front of the layout. We've also made a start on the ply sleepers. These are cut from a sheet of 1/16 inch ply, sanded to finished size on a disc sander, dumped in a bath of wood dye for about half an hour and then left to dry on an old newspaper. Word of caution, if using a plastic tub for this make sure it can withstand the solvents in the wood dye, this one's OK but I speak from previous experience! Apologies for the blurred pictures. It's the club AGM next week so nothing will get done then but soon we can get on with track building (yippee!). I've decided to give 31.5mm gauge a try and have got some gauges from Debs (excellent service). Also in response to encouragement/cajoling from others on here I've downloaded Templot and am making steady progress towards a track template, I'll let you know further how I get on with it. More soon.

Cheers John and a very good point. When we first started thinking about this layout late last year it was my intention to have a go at using Templot. However at that stage it was currently unavailable so we resorted to using the C&L Templates for the initial track planning. Now that Templot is up and running again I might have a go with it to produce the track plan which will be laid on the boards and onto which the trackwork will be built. However I've never used templot before and would not class myself as a computer whizz kid - too old!, so it depends on how long it takes to master the system.

Quick update on progress. So far two of the baseboards have been put together see photos below. Nothing special in their construction, 9mm MDF for the sides and cross braces and 12mm chipboard for the tops all glued and screwed together. These two baseboards measure 1600mm x 900mm and can easily be lifted by two people. The length of OO flexitrack shown attached to the underside of the board in the last photo will act as the DCC wiring bus-bar. Only two more boards to do now! As I have mentioned this is the first time any of us involved in the project have dabbled in O Gauge so of course we need to acquire some rolling stock to run on it. One possible downside of O Gauge is the cost of rolling stock, particularly locomotives. My son has recently built the JLTRT Class 50 which is an excellent kit and has produced a fine looking model, but although it is as yet an unpowered display model only it has cost him nearly £600 so far for the kit, paint, transfer, couplings etc. I’m not knocking the charges levied by such as JLTRT as these are relatively specialised low volume kits but at the moment I can’t really justify that sort of expenditure, plus I am from Yorkshire after all! (By the way the club covers the cost of building the layout – funded from subscriptions, but all rolling stock is bought, paid for and owned by individual members). As a result I (we) started to look at alternatives and one option was to acquire some second hand Lima Class 33’s and convert them to Class 26’s & 27’s. My friend and fellow club member The Penguin of Doom is going to convert one using the PRMRP conversion kit and will no doubt document progress on it in due course – once he’s finished his umpteenth version of DP2 no doubt! However following conversation with a gentleman at Warley (sorry can’t remember your name or even which layout you were on-put it down to old age!) I’m going to try my conversion using Heljan spares. We subsequently purchased said Lima Cromptons off e-bay, generally for about £40-50. I then placed an order via Howes website for a complete set of Class 26 spares and despite people previously commenting on availablity (or lack of it) everything duly arrived the next day, so well done Howes & Heljan! The photos below show the loco as bought plus the Heljan parts. The total cost of the Heljan parts was £36. The fan and grile is an Extreme Etchings part by the way. One interesting point. Quickly laying the Heljan glazing over the Lima bodyshell showed that with the obvious exception of the centre windscreen it fitted almost exactly, so despite it’s age the Lima bodyshell doesn’t seem to be far adrift in these areas (assuming Heljan have got it right)!

Having got the wood for the baseboards (all pre cut by the supplier Bell & Higgins Timber Ltd of Hull – thoroughly recommended) we laid out the baseboard tops so that we could then lay out the full size templates as a further check that everything fitted as we wanted. This produced this; There is another 1.2m long board to go on the end nearest the camera in the first picture but at the moment we do not have room to erect it. As this only carries plain track in the station area it was not considered important for this initial planning stage Having satisfied ourselves that all was OK the board tops were marked with the positions of the turnout operating units (so we don’t place cross members in the way) and also the line for the quay edge marked on. By the way, following some sagging of the board tops on Battersby North End where we used 6mm plywood we have decided to use 12mm chipboard for the tops this time and due to the cost of plywood have gone for MDF for the sides. I have used this combination on a P4 layout I’m building for myself. The boards were built about 2-3 years ago and have been stored in various heated and unheated locations and have not sagged or warped, though all surfaces were sealed with a couple of coats of varnish to prevent moisture movement. So, now for some joinery! (Fortunately something I like).

Well it is a coastal terminus so fish based recipes should fit in well!