Jaggzuk

Aside from new buildings, I have slowly been converting my wagons and coaches that have Tension Lock Hook couplings to a new coupling system. At the beginning of COVID Lockdown I discovered the magnetic Hunt Coupling system. After an initial trail where I was impressed with the reliability, better close coupling and the much improved visual aspect, I have now decide to go for a full convert with a mix of Kadee and Hunt. See Link-Hunt Coupling System topic for details and I have posted some of my recent conversions from pg 5 onwards.

I think I am developing a good system of how to work with mix coupling formations. So basically on my layout I need both a shunting coupling and a fixed rake coupling. Kadee and Hunt coupling suite my needs. For shunting, I have a number of short sidings that can each take a maximum of 3 medium length wheelbase twin axel wagons such as OTA or VAA. These will either be in short fixed formations such a 3 timber OTA or treated as singles wagons such as VAA vans and will be part of longer Speedlink trains. I can then shunt all wagons using Kadee. For fixed rake long trains that will just run around the layout I will use magnetic couplings with a Kadee at each end. All locos with have Kadee (eventually!). So to combine my shunting wagons and my fixed rake formations to make even longer trains, I will have to have a number of wagons that have both coupling types and a mix of A/B magnets polarities. For example here are my various OTA train formations, I have a total of 7 wagons. Here wagons 5, 6 and 8 have the key coupling combinations and allow the visual look of the full formation to be changed each time by placing them at different positions. Wagons 1, 5, 6 & 8 working in pairs can all be used in shunting trains. My Speedlink train formations are even more fun to create with both coupling types! Aside for the fact I find the Hunt Coupling much easier to fit than Kadee, there is a notable cost saving to convert all wagons/coaches. Plus, the magnetic coupling type is a lot more tolerant of height and off centre position variations than Kadee.

Ah I see. Even with a "new" NEW magnet version, there is not much space between the pockets to accommodate two magnets. Are you precious about modify the pockets to create more space, I guess ideally not as the model looks mint. Could you not create your own couplings out of NEM TLC parts and some thin rectangular Neodymium Magnets, such as these https://www.first4magnets.com/rectangular-c35/self-adhesive-10-x-5-x-1mm-thick-n42-neodymium-magnets-0-6kg-pull-p2450#ab_1_1|ps_2_683 On an aside, that is very nice looking train the OBB RailJet. I came across it when do some design work on High Speed. Just look mat the compartment based business class - https://cloud.panono.com/p/4ba1dfd61606/album/8c1ba560d7e5 Nothing like that on UK UK network!! But that’s not for discussion here ;-)

SirTopham, below are the combined coupling dimensions. These measurements would equate to the physical gap between the two NEM pocket faeces when coupled up. I have never seen such a short NEM coupling as the one you showed!. What rolling stock are you actually coupling together as the NEMs look like they must almost be touching? I assume there are no buffers on this stock. Very interesting. But yes you are right I do not think there is a Hunt Coupling this short. Worth communication with them directly on possible future design options?

These are the dimensions I know of. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151728-hunt-coupling-system/&do=findComment&comment=3965624 I can measure others that I have if needed. But it is a bit arbitrary as the distance from the face of the NEM pocket to the buffer face varies from item to item. Also, the amount of buffer beam over swing on corners really dictate what coupling you actually need. Personally, I have found that the NEM Standard version is way too long and ends up separating wagons more than with TLC. I have used the Close NEM version the most. If you need subtle variations in the coupling length, try using a NEM Standard version with the bobble legs cut off and filing the wider sides down and then glue into the NEM pocket to the length required. I did this for my Bachmann BDA Bogie Bolster wagons.

It is interesting why the Hunt Coupling system id being negatively commented on as not being any good for shunting, as a number of members have already said, they are NOT designed for hands free uncoupling actions. Having had a number of really useful customer service conversations with the Hunt designer, their prime design purpose of operation is in fixed rake formations and to create a more reliable connection in both push and pull operations. The issue of polarity on one hand could be problematic if you regularly want to turn individual coaches or wagons around, but when would this happen in the real world? Most passenger coach formations are fixed rake as are a lot of modern day wagon trains. Yes, you need to pre-plan which side of each a coach or wagon you want to see on each side of the layout when fitting the magnets, but are there many vehicles that have dramatically different sides which would require mid-running session turn-arounds? As for locos with magnetic couplings, I can see that there could be an issue if they turn around during operation (e,g, Steam and turntables or reverse triangles) and so end up have similar magnetic poles to wagons. But if you want to “uncouple”, I think that you would perhaps not use magnetic couplings on the locos but use one of the many “hands-free” coupling systems to couple up with the fixed rakes. For me, I plan to have an eventual mix of magnetic and Kadee, using the Kadee on locos and for wagons I want to shunt. The GLR Twin pole MagNEM, does appear to offer the flexibility of being able to turning around individual vehicles within fixed rakes, but it still does not offer hands free uncoupling. One issue I foresee with the first version of the ‘OO’ GLR MagNEM, having watched the introduction video Link to Using the MagNEM OO Magnetic Omni Couplings, is that the coupling is a draw bar type and as such is designed to move freely back and forth within the NEM pocket. The reason cited in the video is to allow buffer to buffer push shunting moves. Unless you have large radius points or only shunt short wheelbased wagons, you will get buffer lock over points due to reverse wheelbase over swing. You do not get this with Hunt Coupling as they fit snugly in the pocket. I think you would end up gluing the GLRs in place. For me, aside from the much improved close coupling look and the significantly more reliable connection from magnet couplings, is the ease with which you can just separate and lift each vehicle off the layout during fiddle yard working or at the end of a running session, is the real advantage. It does perhaps look like we are heading for a raft of new magnetic coupling systems and types, Hunt Couplings, already offer 15 different versions for OO. I see that a new one was published today - a Hunt Couplings that work with Tension Locks Hooks. I for one am jsut a satisfied customer of Hunt Coupling and will soon have got rid of all my TLC!!

Next one OMWB, POA scrap metal wagons. When I bought these, I found that they derailed on tight radii. On investigation I found that the TLC, which are screwed to the wagon type (no NEM), did not have enough flex to cope with the curves. The result was I had to cut off the 'T' bar legs and loose screw just the TLC back in place so that it could swing to either side. To convert to Hunt Coupling, I decided to use the ‘T’ bar screw version. I cut off the T Bar legs and the two pegs supports on the wagon chassis leaving just the screw terminal. Using the original coupling screw, I loose screwed the Hunt Coupling in place ensuring it could swing left and right. This method required minimal hacking of the wagon and you could even leave the Hunt T bar coupling uncut. But I preferred to make it look as slim line as possible. The result is the closest coupling on a wagon I have so far achieved on the layout. Hunt Coupling 'T' Bar legs trimmed on the left and un cut on the right Almost touching buffers on 2nd radii. I will create fixed rake of these with TLC at one end and a Kadee at the other untile I have repalced all TLC on my tock and then it will be just Kadee and Hunt.

Another trail and happy result. This time I have used the NEM Close Couple type on my Honrby OTA wagons. As the magnetic coupling keeps the free to pivot wheels that are on this wagon aligned, I removed the plastic centring spring. Again a quick test my 3rd radius curves the look is great. I have also converted a rake of Bachmann VDA van wagons with the same coupling and equally good results with the free pivot wheel type of arrangement. The next task will be a touch of frame dirt paint to help make the coupling "disappear" from obvious view.

Heads up, there is a Bank Holkiday sale on https://www.westhillwagonworks.co.uk/couplings-new-c-2/. £2 off normal £12.95 price!! Ends midnight Bank Holiday Monday.

An interesting idea Graham and they will look like vacuum pipe when painted black. I can see that this does solve the issue of single polarity magnets, but how do these coaches go round corners, as you have basically fixed the bogies in to a rigid format between each coach?

Current OMWB (COVID Lockdown evenings) projects: Conversion to Hunt Couplings for fixed rake stock - see https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151728-hunt-coupling-system/ Great close coupling now achived on Bachmann Mk1s with Hunt Couplings. OK on 2nd and 3rd radius curves And as I have had to buy an Inkjet printer to work at home and provide Home School material, I can now start some PDF print buildings. First for the layout is the Scalescenes Island Station Building. I have added lighting (from ex Christmas tree LED lights) and I am planning to extend the canopy over columns on one side. I had to modify the kit to accommodate the curved platform. Use of copper wire to act as a Bus for the LEDs which have been soldered in parallel I really liked the kit and it has gone together well. Happy with the Inkjet print too which I done on to several sheets of a single sized A4 self adhesive label. This saved on gluing time and has also stopped the card from curving when the glue dries. But I did buy a rubber brayer printing roller to help fix the label on to card.

Hi Paul, Thanks for the comment. My two boys (and me) still enjoy playing trains on the layout. But I keep getting grief that it is not finished and there is too much bare cork on view! I am sure the track plan will scale down to N Gauge fine. But best plan it out on paper or track planning software The grades are 2% max, but I do not know that the suggested max gradient in N Gauge is. Not that I split the up and down grades the from a +40mm ground level. This halved any distance required to pass tracks over each other. There is nothing I would change on the original track plan, but obviously I expanded out of the 8x4 by adding the fiddle yard extension. A real benefit for multi train running and stock storage

That is awesome Kylestrome! I did not know you could do that and it is really useful. Even better than delete. The constant repeat of quotes with original images is really frustrating and can make it very difficult to read a thread. It is even worse when people quote other peoples quotes and include the original image. I have just seen one thread that had six repeats of the original image! I vote for a code change to make it necessary of have to positively include an image in the quote rather than relying on people to manually delete them from the quoted text. A Simple check box button in the Edit window that stays "Include ordinal image/s in quote?". Hopefully this would not be seen as editorial restriction on posts but a tool to help us write better conversations in a thread, which are then more enjoyable to read.

Just love this Thread. Gives you a warm fussy feeling of days done by when mixed goods trains rulled. Some great location and photos. Cheers guys.

Waverley47708, what I know is this, given I asked the same question on dimesnsions. The dimension from the face of the magnet to the NEM pocket front are: Ultra Close: 7.85mm Close: 9.67mm Standard: 12.65mm From my own measurements (+-0.05mm) of the ones I have also bought : Plumman: 10.5mm Screw: 11.0mm (face of magnet to center of screw hole)

Some further update on my mods using Hunt Couplings. Using the Screw Coupling version, which is a "T" bar type used for replacing the large metal D tension hooks. I used them on Hornby Railroad Pullmans. The hole left in the bogie once the D bar rivet has been removed needed a large self tap screw to secure the coupling. A bolt might have been better as there is a risk of cracking the coupling with a coarse self tapping screw. Next was a rake of Hornby Teaks. This time I cut off the NEM legs and then drilled a 1.0mm hole and used a 1.15mm screw to secure to the bogie. To get the Hunt Coupling at the same level as a NEM version, I needed a 0.5mm shim. A Screw T Bar would not work as this I woudl have had to cut a lot of plastic from underneath the bogie. My final version was for Bachmann BDA Bogie Bolster. When I was drilling the hole for the Teak conversion, I manage to snap several couplings leaving me with about 12mm (warning the plastic will snap if too much force is applied during drilling or cutting). Rather than bin them, I wondered if I filed the sides of the coupling they could just be pushed in to a NEM pocket, and yes this worked. A dab of superglue secured. In doing this meant that I can get the best fit close coupling for each type of wagon, as the dimension from NEM to buffer varies. A spot of dark brown paint will help to subdue the coupling plastic. Before buffer to buffer 8.3mm After buffer to buffer 5.3 My tightest curve is 2nd radius. A 0.5mm gap on the inside buffers

Love the layout. Kadee are great for shunting and shunting puzzles. Be careful where you place the magnets for uncoupling. They must be a) on straight track and b) far enough away of any point such that all wagons and locos have completed their traversing over-swing – you will be surprised just how far that is for some locos and bogie wagons! I agree the foam under axel adds just enough rolling resistance for Kadees to work when shunting light weight wagons. For fixed rakes, try Hunt Couplings, these are magnetic couplings for NEM pockets (and a screw fix version). I have just invested in some and am really impressed, especially for coaches which have the auto close coupling NEM devise. Also great for any wagon set you do not expect to shunt. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151728-hunt-coupling-system/ A good price, just be patient on stock levels, I reckon they are coming straight off the 3D printer and into the post pox ;-). Keep the update coming!

Various packs arrived and I had a play fitting them, overall good results, but a few issues too. The best version by far is the Pullman Stepped which I actually fitted to Bachmann Mk1 and Mk2 coaching. Wow, what a difference. I now have touching corridor ends on plain line, but they can still navigate 2nd radius curves and medium radius points and ladders. Very impressed! My only minor observation is that the A/B marker is on the topside not the bottom, so cannot be seen once the couplings are inserted. Therefore you cannot tell which magnets will couple up/oppose each other pole wise. Hunt Pullman Stepped Coupling fitted to a pair of Bachmann MK1 Hunt Pullman Stepped Coupling The Standard NEM socket version, I fitted to all my container flats (from various manufactures) and overall they are a success and way better than the various Tension Hooks. The only issue I found is that the various NEM pocket types appears to vary in dimension. So Hunt couplings went in fairly easily (Hornby NEM) whereas with other wagons (Bachmann NEM) required quite a bit of force to get the couplings in. On comparing the Hunt to a standard Tension Hook, the geometry of the Hunt’s legs which go into the pocket appear a lot more chunky and there is less fineness with the legs, end bobbles and the gap between the legs. I found I had to file the gap between the legs and put a small chamfer on the end bobble to get some of them in. View showing the chuncky nature and narrow leg gap of the Hunt coupling NEM legs I also found that the length of the Hunt Standard to be on average 2mm longer than most of the Tension Hooks (TH) it replaced. The Hunt Standard measured 12.8 from magnet face to NEM pocket front, whereas TH varied from 10.2 to 10.8 - measured from NEM pocket front to the edge of curved hook beam. But obviously, when two TH are coupled together and under tension the NEM to NEM distance increased to 30.6, which equates to a 15.3 fixed distance. So the Hunt dimension appears to have been placed half way between the two TH distances. The max under tension NEM to NEM distance I might investigate the Close Couple version to see if they are better, My only other observation is the plastic appears to vary. On the Pullman Stepped it is nice and hard, whereas on the Standard NEM is appears to be a lot softer and a lot more flexible. This soft plastic has caused and issue with legs deforming when pushing in to tight NEM pockets. Overall I am very impressed and am a convert, certainly for the Mk1 & 2s which already have the auto close coupling feature which works very well with the Hunt Coupling. I will try other close coupling versions when they are next in stock.

Note the the twin buffet car and 8 coaches on image Peascliffe Tunnel 254008 Leeds to Kings X June 80 J6988.jpg. Whas this normal?

An interesting system and I am considering purchases for my fixed rakes and for ease of putting stock on and taking off my layout. But I have a couple of questions. How do the couplings work on tight radii (2nd and 3rd), Existing NEM tension hook couplings have 2 points of flex; the hooks which can slide side to side and at the NEM pocket fishtail fixing point. Looking at the Hunt magnetic coupling mechanism, I can only see one point of flex and this within the NEM fishtail. So do you lose some of the lateral flexibility a tension hook offers when rolling stock goes round a corner or traverses point switches? Does the coupling stiffen the connection between two item of rolling stock, is there a risk it can cause light weight items to jump the rails? Thanks

I can recommend the Peco point lever switch. Once you fit them into the 6x holder you end up with a nice looking lever frame. Note that with a crossover ladder (two points) between two tracks, you only need to use one point lever to throw both points. The CDU will have enough grunt to fire both point motors at the same time. My lever frame (which now controls over 20 points). and The fact you can get different colours of point levers means you can group them for different sections of the layout, like main line, goods yard, enginehsed etc How is the layout build comming along?

Great layout. I like your idea for Cable Trough using a pen to depict the joints. I too was not happy with any of the manufactured offerings and have gone down the route of DIY using plasticard sections. How are you sticking yours down to the basebaord? Just one obs, cable troughs are normally 1000mm long. The C/1/9 or C/1/8 being the common trough size along plain line (1000 h x 280 w x 170 d plus 40mm for lid) see https://www.powerandcables.com/product/cable-trough/concrete-cable-trough/ Like you I need to laying all the cable trough on my layout as it is holding up my ballasting too! What I have observed in the real world along plain line is that the cable trough acts as a clear divide between the ballast shoulder and the lineside grass/vegitation. see example of my efforts https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106602-family-8x4-oo-layout-trains-running-again/&do=findComment&comment=2898300

Great photos as usual love the updates, but it might have been a good idea to have blanked out the mobile numbers and names of the Railway Workers before publishing them on the web? Have you had thier permission to publish thier details?

Some shots from a very wet York. Amazing to see a full set in its original livery (again) and what a great paint job too. Brought back great memories of the 70s and seeing these up and down the ECML. What I also now love is the fact that I can legitimately run a BR Blue "Flying Banana" in high gloss finish on our layout at home!

You can get a photo of the man himself with his mouse, only one left! https://www.amazon.com/Vintage-photo-of-Terence-Cuneo/dp/B07NP45W4F