Roy L S

Hi John Thank you, that is very useful information which validates my suspicions about the speaker used. I really like the model in every other respect so I'll be on to you for a Sugarcube 8 in due course and just have to be careful when I install it. I hope Revolution Trains are gracious enough to take this feedback on board and if nothing can be done about the 128s at least factor it into the specification, design and fit for the sound components for the 120 which I, and many others I know are keenly awaiting. Regards Roy

Off topic slightly, but am I right in thinking that the Bachmann/Farish/EFE Winter announcements will be due next week? The last 3 months sure has flown by and my wallet is only just recovering from the Autumn releases 🤔. Not that it would stop me from finding the money if something I really like gets announced mind and I live in perpetual hope of a brand new V2 one day..... Roy

Thank you, I will take a look.

Hi Charlie I appreciate you taking the time to share all of the above, it is all very interesting and informative and of course I am very aware of your extensive knowledge and experience with absolutely everything DCC sound related. What has still not been explained (and this isn't I appreciate something you will necessarily be able to answer) is why the Zimo MS580N18 decoder I purchased with the YouChoos sound project loaded worked perfectly at default settings as supplied not just in the Farish locos tried which typically have Zimo decoders fitted in sound versions anyway, but also the Rapido Class 28 which is set up for an ESU decoder (in my case the two I have came so fitted) only the Revolution 128 has the sound-distortion problem and this is why I remain convinced it is the rating of the speaker that is the issue. The level of work you have put into the sound project specifically for the Revolution Trains 128 is clear from what you have listed above and to be honest I wasn't aware of it. We all have our preferences and mine has always been to use Zimo wherever possible because of their reputation for high quality and resilience which has served me well for many years. That is not to say I don't have any sound locos with ESU decoders or have anything against them, and had I known about your sound file for this loco I might well have gone for it, so bringing the option to my attention is very much appreciated. However, of course the issue for me is that I have already spent the best part of the price I paid for the loco on the Zimo one and it is hard to justify another £130 ish (at a guess) for another decoder to fix the issue! I accept that nobody was aware that the issue would arise with the Zimo decoder, but I am now in a position where I wouldn't want to even change the speaker for a better rated one that will suit it because of the risk of invalidating the warranty, so I am a bit stuck really, and with all due respect to Mike Hale I do not consider knocking down CV 266 to minimise the "crackle" a satisfactory solution. For others though who haven't made a decoder or sound-file choice I am reckoning (knowing the quality of the Legomanbiffo sound files) you may have more than a few enquiries! Best wishes Roy

As mentioned above, I have taken the time this morning to do some swapping about of decoders between locos. Having already tried the Zimo MS580 in the Class 31, I know that worked fine so next I have taken one of my Rapido 28s and swapped the ESU decoder from that to the 128 and vice versa. I reset the MS580 to default and set the 128 off, as expected the "crackle" returned big time. I put the MS580 in the Class 28 and it runs perfectly with the Zimo, without any sound distortion whatsoever. However the really interesting finding is that the 128 with the Class 28's ESU sound decoder installed (exactly how it came out of the 28) also runs without any speaker crackle whatsoever. Then, even more interesting, I took the Zimo sound decoder from my Farish C Class and put that in the 128, and off it chuffed (seeming very strange) also with no crackle. I have checked the paperwork and that decoder, while a Next 18 is an MX658 so an earlier series of decoder. For completeness the last checks I did were the MS580 in the C Class and giving it full acceleration off it chugged without any crackle or distortion whatsoever, although the sound of it changing gear was interesting, I then put the MX658 in the Class 28, again off it chuffed with no distortion. So, in summary of the three chips tried in each of the three locos, all worked perfectly in the Farish C Class and the Rapido 28. The ESU and the MX658 both worked fine in the 128 without any discernible "crackling" but in that loco the Zimo MS580 (at default settings as tested in all locos) crackled like crazy. It seemed that the sound settings in the first two may have been a tad quieter. What does this point to? I value others thoughts too, but what it strongly suggests to me is that the MS580's output is indeed higher, and while the speakers in the C Class and 28 are up to the job, the 128's is not. Roy

I too have successfully used the MS500 paired with a Microcube 5 speaker (0.5 watt 8 ohm rating) in a variety of projects and this has worked fine without any distortion even when (under YouChoos advice) increasing CV266 to 80 to improve volume. Just like the MS580 the MS500 is rated at 1 watt audio at 8 ohm, so as far as I can see the output shouldn't be an issue for a typical Sugarcube speaker given that a decent lower rated microcube works without distortion. I am asking Youchoos for their thoughts as to whether the sound file as loaded on the MS580 for me should ordinarily overpower a typical Sugarcube and cause such distortions. Regards Roy

As a long time customer (no other connection) I would trust YouChoos default settings as they have been doing sound on Zimo for donkeys years, and it is fair to say that personally I have fitted these to a good variety of locos both "plug and play" (6 pin and Next 18) and hardwired using a variety of different makes and sizes of speaker. However notwithstanding that, in this particular case I have taken CV266 right down to 40 which while much improved hasn't completely eliminated the problem. As yet so far unexplained is why at default settings the decoder and sound file performed perfectly in the "plug and play" Farish Class 31 which also has a Sugarcube speaker, and failed to in the 128. Indeed my very first thought when initially encountering the "crackle" issue was to check the chip in another loco so as to rule that out as the culprit. I may well experiment further today, reset the chip to default settings and try it in a range of other N18 "plug and play" locos I have, Rapido 28 for one, to see if any present similar issues and while I am doing that I will try the 28's ESU chip in the 128. Regards Roy

Hi Mike Well, I am somewhat taken aback - speaking as a purchaser of the 128 and potential 120 customer too I find that a really disappointing response. The simple answer answer to your question is because it is a bit of a "band aid" fix that doesn't address the underlying issue which is the speaker, as I have already mentioned this Zimo chip with that 128 sound-file loaded worked perfectly well in a Farish 31, so it does seem a bit lame to blame them. Also, just to mention that although much improved, even with the CV value reduced to 40, my second 128 still has a slight crackle under certain conditions so isn't completely fixed. If you are saying that fitting a lower quality speaker than you might have is acceptable because not everybody runs sound then I am truly speechless - based on that logic why go to the trouble of fitting a 24 pin decoder socket to the 59 when not everybody uses DCC - surely a cheaper 6-pin one would do just fine?? It would also I think be fair to point out that from comments here and elsewhere it does seems to be the case that this speaker issue isn't isolated to a single type of chip or sound-project as is implied above, so further investigation most certainly does seem more than warranted. As I have already said, the model is in every other respect lovely and a credit to all involved in it's development, just a shame that this one thing has become an issue. Regards Roy

The sound-file I have on mine was pre-loaded by YouChoos, it is of their Class 108 modified with sliding doors rather than slam ones (apparently I haven't tried that function). The 108 has essentially the same engines but with lower power rating than the 128 which of course could and did often haul a tail-load hence needing the extra oomph. I am quite happy with it, but whether another may be "better" I couldn't say as I have never heard a real 128 and is probably subjective anyway. On the issue of QC I think a bit more balance is needed here as the 128 out of the box, lovely and really well designed though it certainly appears to be, is certainly not in many reported cases free from issues for the sound-user. The speaker crackle while possible to all but "fix" by reducing the CV266 master volume should not be there and it shouldn't be necessary to do that, I have tested the same Zimo sound chip in another sound enabled Next 18 loco (Farish Class 31) at the default sound setting and it was perfect - no crackle at all so there definitely is a speaker issue to investigate. Opinions about what are "good" or "bad" will obviously anyway vary with experience, and no manufacture would claim to be able to deliver 100% of perfect models in any given batch - that just isn't realistic with mass production. My experience over the last 12 months has been mixed: - - I have had to return two Rapido Class 28s out of three (one to Rails and one to Rapido) with a failed ESU sound-decoder (a common fault). - One out of two Sonic J50s went back to Rails for replacement due to poor running. - Two EFE J94s recently received are fine on analogue but I await micro-decoders to test them on DCC. - I have purchased a non-sound Kernow Golden Ochre Farish 31 (the one I used for the test mentioned above), two sound-fitted Farish 4F 0-6-0s and a Farish sound-fitted Ivatt 2MT - all perfect. - I received my first 128 with a speaker-crackle which Ben and Simon very kindly swapped for another at GETS last weekend, but sadly the replacement had the same issue. What is more important to me is the response from the manufacturers to a given issue that is identified. Here, and to get back on topic, talking specifically of the case of my 128, the issue was speedily acknowledged by the Revolution Team and a commitment made by to investigate. For that to be done thoroughly will take time, so I am happy to wait, they are enthusiasts themselves and were clearly disappointed when I spoke to them - they want to and I am sure will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime run my 128 at reduced volume almost free from crackle until a "proper" fix is advised. Roy

Yes, just very gently get your fingernails underneath in the gap between body and chassis and it should ease out slightly then up. Be aware of the way round in relation to the chassis, apparently it only goes on one way round.

It is a "solution" I read about and tried yesterday, I shared by e-mail with Simon at RevolutioN although he may of course have already reached the conclusion through other means too. One point I would wish to stress though, is that while this is a "fix" of sorts and may satisfy some people which is great, it is only achieved by reducing CV266 down from default of 75 (to in my case 40) which pretty much eliminates the "crackle" but at the expense of making the sound quieter. I tested the chip in a Next 18 Farish Class 31 when at original settings and there was no distortion from the speaker, so unfortunately my conclusion remains that at least some of the 128 speakers as fitted aren't fully up to the job. In saying the above, of course it is early days and RevolutioN who are a very small team need time to fully investigate and possibly go back to the factory, I am sure we will hear from them in a more "official" capacity when they have done so. On the positive side, speaker issue apart, I think the 128 is a gorgeous model, beautifully detailed and finished with a really well designed and smooth running mechanism, all of which which bodes well for the 120. Roy

I would suggest the copper strip (more likely phosphor bronze?) "prongs" are part of the pickup assembly taking current from the bogies to the PCB, similar in concept to a number of other models such as the Rapido Class 28.

Out of curiosity, seeing the beautifully done interior of Dan's coach - there's no bed - where did he sleep? 🤔

Have you had any success with the loco? The only other thing I can add is to also slacken off the screw that retains the pony truck a half turn too.

I am a DCC user so it wouldnt affect me, but were I an analogue user I am not sure I like the idea of having current going through what is effectively a stalled motor to keep lights off, it can't be good for motors, especially coreless ones with no iron core to help dissipate the heat that would be created surely?

Try backing off the drawbar screws at the front of the tender and rear of the loco half a turn and see if that frees things up. Regards Roy

Having checked the RevolutioN website, and in case it is of interest to others, there has been an update as follows: - Status: - Shipping to UK Estimated delivery to UK: - Late September - early October 2023 So not too much longer to wait now! Roy

I am not a OO modeller but as a model railway enthusiast in general I keenly follow a variety of threads relating to different manufacturer's products including this one. I am in no position to comment about the 15xx issues, but I can as far as Rapido's excellent warranty service is concerned. I was one of a number who bought Rapido's N Gauge Metrovick Co-Bo. In the case of mine it was a sound fitted version with a defective decoder which became reported as a common issue with the loco (running the loco with a standard chip confirmed the loco ran fine). I raised a warranty request through the website and was asked to return the entire loco, which I did. Rapido were totally open and honest about both the decoder problems (and what they were doing about it) and other QC issues identified with some of these locos, and even though I hadn't had any problems they asked that it be returned so that they could check it over. They could have just asked for the chip to be sent back for replacement which would have been cheaper, but they didn't, they went the extra mile and incurred the additional expense of checking the whole loco. Yes, it took a while for them to get replacement decoders and therefore my loco to be returned, but that was down to a global supply issue not them. The Rapido team didn't hide from "criticism" of the Co-Bo, they were visible and responsive to people's issues, offering to fix locos even though first port of call would technically be to return it to the retailer. I see the exact same thing here, issues raised with some of the 15xx's and a proactive open and honest response from the Rapido Team, this is a measure of an organisation who are passionate about their products and just as disappointed when problems are reported. Anyone who has spoken to these guys at exhibitions will know the passion and enthusiasm they have for their brand and products, they are model railway enthusiasts just like us, and I for one would like to complement the whole team on not just the quality of their warranty service but their whole ethos, I would have to reflect that not every manufacturer is like this. Roy

I would see these models as a perfect candidate for ready to go replacement 2mm fine-scale conversion kit with coupling rods, crankpins and drop-in wheelsets complete with bearings.

I have had an email from Kernow to say mine are on their way 🙂 Edit... No, correction, having contacted Kernow for a tracking number they advise that Bachmann have invoiced them and the models are currently en-route to them, possibly arriving tomorrow. They were simply charging people's cards now to make despatch quicker when they arrive which seems pretty logical to me.

Have you ever heard of remote working? It is quite a thing these days, in the case of many roles you don't necessarily need to physically work at the business location.

Indeed, this seller is showing all six variants with stock levels of 10 plus for each, I haven't seen them advertised anywhere else yet, certainly not showing as "in stock" yet at Kernow where I ordered mine from, very odd unless Jadlam (the eBay seller in this case ) have jumped the gun 🤔. Roy

Hi have to admit, I thought I was a newsletter subscriber too, but haven't seen one in ages, I guess I should re-register 🤔

They look very nice indeed and great to see such lovely "state of the art" model being made available for OO modellers - how can it not be a winner? However, it occurs to me that given the range of comparatively recent and very nice models of different variants already available in N from Farish, these would appear to be one model for which just for once the "shrink ray" will not be required. Roy

Thanks Mike I have checked the RevolutioN website before posting here but it hasn't been updated recently, just curious to know how things went with the 128 production samples mentioned above which you have presumably by now received and checked? Regards Roy