by John Dew
original page on Old RMweb
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??? posted on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:50 pm
.As I said the last time I attempted to write about my layout....I have serious misgivings about starting the thread...the standard of modelling on the forum is generally awe inspiring and significantly better than anything I can aspire to. Apart from showing my screw ups and bodges to the world I was also concerned about the pressure of contribuiting updates on a regular basis.......I was right about that one....I only posted 3 times.
Anyway after much humming and hawing I have decided to have another go if only to put in a clearer context my frequent cries for help..particularly on the DCC forum.
To summarise the layout will be GWR/LMS 1947.....seconds before nationalisation...no B.R. but I can have Ivatts. Based on North Wales (Wrexham?) with coal mining and heavy industry.
This is my first foray into DCC and eventually computor control.
The "Railway Room" is 10' x 18'. Last winter I built all the benchwork
The plan is to have the main station on the left hand long side and storage sidings fronted by a branch station and goods yard on the right hand long side. I havent worked out how to deal with the entrance....duck under or drop in? I am thinking of some sort of viaduct but that is many months away
This layout aint going anywhere! I use 2"x 2" legs, 2" x 1" supports and J Girders made from 4" x 1" and 2" x 1" . Although we use kilometeres and litres we still adhere to 'imperial" measurements in Canada.
On top of the girders I place 4" x 1" joists secured by L brackets (not shown here)
The joists have been notched to allow for the backscene, wiring and in this case the lower level of the branch line.
3/4" Ply for the trackbed is laid on top of the joists. The overall width of the baseboards is 31" with infills at the corners to allow for 36" minimum radius. On the right hand side the storage sidings occupy 20" with 11" remaining for the branch line and intermediate back scene
This was my original layout attempt for the branch station but a combination of poor tracklaying and the two back to back curved points didnt work ie lots of derailments so much to my frustration I had to rip up the three end points and start again
This works fine although I have to insert a very brief 24" radius curve right at the end. I have added a short siding in the shed area. Hopefully the little stretch of wall gives an idea of the start of how the storage area will be concealed...above the wall will be a narrow intermediate back scene.
I still struggle with XTRCad so maybe this switch panel will give a rough idea of the layout.
Obviously not to scale! To further demonstrate my technical incompetence I havent mastered how to insert wording on to photos......but this should also help understand the layout!
There are lots of compromises and I am afraid some non protypical layout here...it gets worse when I go into the goods yard...but at least it works......next post DCC and wiring!
John
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Comment posted by taylork on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:32 am
Hi from one end of the world to the other (Oz) Looks like a good start, How about a track plan and a close up of the cluster of buildings sitting together in the second pic. I am modelling Wigan Wallgate ( a little to the N E ) in about the same time period. The buildings look quite atmospheric in the distance and a couple look remarkably similar to a couple I have been scratch building.
Look forward to more posts
Kevan T
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??? posted on Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:04 am
Thank you....its going to be a long haul. The track plan I am working on.....I am really weak on XtR cad and I find it very time consuming.......I will try and load a plan from RR&Co....I have the demo version
Do you mean these buildings?
You werent supposed to see them! They were temporarily stored on the baseboard. They are a montage of detailed Metcalfe houses and factory with a Townscene backing from the the last layout. I hope to incorporate them overlooking the exit from the storage sidings in the RH corner above the work bench
Regards
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Comment posted by noakesy123 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:17 pm
That looks superb!!
Nice big space to work in, and that townscene is brilliant.
Keep up the good work!
Thomas.
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??? posted on Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm
Thank you! Its amazing how rapidly the space gets used up.....I was hoping to have 4 mainlines running out of the storage yards but now I am having doubts.
Right now I am testing the wiring on the second branch board, the goods yard, and had hoped to post pictures later today but I find one solenoid on the three way point has burnt out so now I have to take it out and wire in a relacement.........grr sometimes this hobby is not as relaxing as I hoped
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Comment posted by mikemeg on Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:15 am
John,
Looking at the photos of your railway room, you're clearly a fan of L S Lowry. What other art bedecks your walls?
Regards
Mike
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Comment posted by peter m on Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:06 pm
Looking very nice there.
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??? posted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:15 am
Hi Mike
Well spotted! My wife originally came from Manchester and I have always had an attachment to Lowry's so over the years I have collected quite a few....all prints unfortunately. I like them in the railwayroom because they reflect the sort of atmosphere I am hoping to create.
I guess the following pics are a bit off topic and I hope this doesnt offend the Moderators or perhaps I should start a new thread....Art and Your Layout
Now back to the layout and this increasingly tiresome 3 way point
Regards edited to remove smiley in incorrect place
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??? posted on Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:33 am
Finally fixed the 3 way point. Changing the burnt out motor was straightforward but I then developed a vintage case of Murphys law. The more you change the worse it gets......I could power two roads but not the frog of the third........finally and I mean finally I realised I had wired the frog wires to the wrong motors!!! At least that was different......
Everything now works and the goods yard board is connected to the station board giving me 14' x 11" of working layout
I am afraid the photography mirrors my modelling.....coarse gauge. Forgive my amateurish attempts to reflect light.
The mini switch panel gives an idea of the track plan
Having completed this, instead of finishing painting the track and starting the ballasting, I couldnt resist putting some stock and a couple of buildings in place
Most of the buildings on the branch are kits......the Ratio Cattle Dock is immediately recognizable . The goods shed was scratch built from Wills Sheets for my first layout. I can totally relate to the short cut thread in the general. I didnt bother finishing the wall on the non viewing sides........and of course that is the side I need to show on this layout......so it had to be rebuilt and re roofed and I added an office
The point at the side of the goods yard leads either to the cattle dock or is a continuation of the branch to the main line....a rise of 3/4"......I have yet to decide which will be the principal route to the branch......it kind of depends on the location of the main station.....more of this later.
Having previewed this I have to be honest and admit that I was quite chuffed with the goods shed shots and then realised I hadnt shown the new non viewing side so I rushed downstairs and took a couple of shots.......... In the spirit of total transparency
The camera can be very penetrating.....I cant believe the gap in that awning! Oh well it is the non viewing side.
I need to post about the electrics and DCC and then I am almost at real time on the layout.....
Now I have to paint the rails and ballast and install the ground cover.....cobblestones etc but I cant install the main structures or the intermediate back scene until the storage yard is installed and before I do that I have to make some major decisions about the location and nature of the main station on the left hand side of the layout
Regards
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Comment posted by noakesy123 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:49 am
Well Done. That Goods yard is great. A layout never looks good until you fill it with stock...
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Comment posted by mikemeg on Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:06 am
Many thanks for taking the time and the trouble to photo some of the art in your railway room. Your layout is beginning to assume all the character which you seek; just keep at it, it's very good.
I am fascinated by the art in people's modelling environment,, not least because I paint some of this railway related stuff.
Once again many thanks
Mike
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??? posted on Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:50 am
Thanks Noaksey......I just need to get cracking with the kaydee conversion and I can actually start playing in the yard.....the qicker I can get stock out of the removal boxes the happier I will be
No problem Mike, glad you enjoyed them.....not sure if the notices constitute artwork but at least they add some light relief.
Now back to the track painting
Regards
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Comment posted by bickybtrains on Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:15 am
Looking good there John.
William
Also of Canada
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??? posted on Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:59 am
Thanks William
Whereabouts? Canada is a big country!!
Regards
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??? posted on Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:37 pm
Lots of rail painting but nothing very photogenic.....hopefully I will have finished the sleepers and paved the coal yard by tomorrow.
Meantime here is a summary of the electrics. This is my first foray into DCC and I can honestly say if it wasnt for this forum and particularly the guys on the DCC sub forum who have patiently answered my dumb questions I dont think it would have ever happened......thanks guys!!
After much research and many questions I opted for Lenz
I think the system is quite brilliant. The slow running is quite exceptional. It took me a while to sort out the button controls on the handset. My favourite errors were punching the deceleration button thinking I was going into reverse....pressing escape ( which with Lenz switches the control to another loco) frantically punching the acceleration button apparently to no avail......until I realised another loco was tearing away down the track!
I was very leary about chipping the 30 something operational locos I have collected. Cost is obviously a factor but I was worried about screwing up. So far no worries...... I have chipped 6....one plug in and the remainder soldered using Trains4U excellent guide and Iain Morton's book. I have still to attempt split chassis......of which I have a lot!
I started with Lenz Gold and then realised I was over specifying and shifted to Silver. Other than changing the address and reversing the direction of a couple I have made no programming adjustments.
Wiring is definitely simpler than analogue although it might not appear so from these shots
This is largely because I am setting up for eventual computor control so I have the main DCC bus (Red and Black), to avoid track power loss a separate bus for the point motors (Blue and Orange), a feed back bus for the track power (Brown and yellow) and an Xpress net bus so I can relocate the handheld controller around the layout.
The DCC power only comes from one transformer but the layout is split into sections using Powershield Circuit Breakers from Tony's Trains
The points can be controlled by the hand held.....surprisingly swift....punch [F5] the point number and +/-. Very handy when you are shunting. I have set up an old fashioned manual system alongside which is useful for testing and reminding me of the point numbers
If you are wondering about the mass of orange wire....that is me slavishly following the Lenz manual which showed a common for each point input.....it took me another installation to remember what common return means! The gizmo at the right is the occupancy decoder which indicates which blocks are occupied.....not much use right now but essential when I have spent the money and have this up and running.
Only the branch track is laid right now but the storage sidings are set out on the plan and that is my next big project
Hope this post wasnt too long winded for those not interested in DCC
Regards from a very snowy Vancouver
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??? posted on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:51 am
Happy New Year to all.
Its been quite a productive holiday despite the flu.I have almost completed all the ballasting. I used some of the tips gleaned from the ballasting thread. Particularly spraying the ballast beforehand. Initially the spray was too coarse and blasted it all over the place then my wife donated a used scent spray.....perfect.....except the residual aroma wasnt quite in line with the gritty industrial atmosphere I am attempting to re create! Overall its a bit of a good news bad news story. The good news its much better than my previous efforts...the bad news it isnt quite as good as I would like and nowhere near as good as some of the examples on this forum.....generally the problem was impatience plus I didnt pre wet it enough......anyway its cast in stone now.
Yhe yard is paved with Wills cobblestones used in a previous layout ....they were far too dark......I have drybrushed them with Grey and although there is still work to be done I feel they are more realistic now. I laid them on a sub layer of mat board (mountboard in the UK?) given hindsight I should have used 2 layers then it would have been nearer rail height
Another iniative from the forum..... I painted the sidings, but not the main line, with diluted black grime......normally I just paint the rails with rust and the sleepers with grime BEFORE ballasting.......there is still quite a lot to do but I think it will be quite effective.
The coal staithes are separate from the goods yard and lead directly from the main line
Grimes is my brother in laws name.....I abhor the play on words one sometimes sees "A Splinter Timber Merchant"
Regular viewers may remember that this first part of the layout is in essence an 11" x 16' plank in front of the, as yet unbuilt, storage yard. This accounts for the weaknesses in the yard layout like the coal staithe set up. It also means I cant install the retaining wall until the storage yards are done. I am also not going to put some of the fragile stuff in like yard lamps and noticeboards until this is done.
You may well ask why dont I get on with the storage yards then instead of fiddling around with detailing..............Firstly I am waiting delivery of a load of Lenz occupancy detectors but thats just an excuse really.....its the broad brush detail stuff that I really enjoy plus it gives me the opportunity to get old friends like the Mikes Model Yard Crane out of storage......built this over 10 years ago.....still need to replace the handle
More ideas from the forum.....Tea Bags for soil and Teddy Bear Fur for grass....normally I have just used Woodland Scenics. I am not sure about the Tea Bags maybe Canadian Tea is different.....the fur was something else.....bears were not available (Yes I know I live in Canada and every summer we have Bear alerts) but the dog was persuaded to part with his pet (toy) monkey......you have to believe all this.......so after suitable painting it has been used between the main and the yard.........there are places where it is (I think great) and others where it looks like Austin Powers chest hair!........judge for yourself .......sadly these shots also show the bad news part of the ballasting
I am not sure about the coach body.....I keep worrying that this part of the layout (the only part actually done or near done) is in danger of becoming GWR BLT Cliche City............how will I ever get Beest 6606 to check the signalling
Would you believe it is still snowing here
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Comment posted by 3millmodeller on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:04 am
Very nice work and greetings from Oz. It seems I was not the only one making an effort on the holidays to get the scenery started.
As I have just started the first layout in 20 years I have to say that the forum is great for techniques and ideas even if the standards are a bit higher than my efforts at the moment. I see you got stuck into the ballast, I for one do not like the ballasting task at all so will be leaving it for next weekend.
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??? posted on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:20 pm
Thanks 3mill
I hate ballasting with a passion so I kind of grit my teeth and press on to get it over with.
I think your layout looks great.....I see we have the same taste in Bilteezi Tenement blocks! The viaduct is really good, I am hoping to incorporate one into Granby but thats a long way down the line.
How do you handle the entrance by the door.....is it duck under or hinged?..........another problem I have to face eventually
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Comment posted by 3millmodeller on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:52 pm
Thanks for the kind words I only just started the scenic development on the weekend so early stanges yet. The viaduct raises a cautious tale regarding computer printed stone work. I printed and scanned copies of the sides (it was a single arch builder plus kit) but as soon as the water/glue hit them the colour leeched out entirley. Only option is to strip it all off and start again.
The vintage bilteezi are sceduled to be replaced by some handbuilt items, although I did find nu chance that 4mm buildings can be modified for 3mm scale with a bit of effort. The access is by a hinged flap over the doorway with rail alignment kept by copper clad strip.
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Comment posted by peach james on Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:47 pm
John,
I finally dug out your layout thread- I've been busy over here on the island, playing with the computer control, getting it to sort of work. There should be a update soon on my layout, detailing some of my experiences with RR&Co to date, and some things not to do.
(I have to be somewhere other than work to update it though...)
Your layout looks good, similar to so many others. If you make it over to here (Vancouver Island), then try and let me know- there are a couple of layouts over here which are worth visiting. (I'd hardly include mine, but for the computer control- I don't know of anyone else who is trying it near here. There is a fellow on Whidby Island who is heavily involved though)
James Powell
Victoria, BC
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??? posted on Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:28 pm
Hi James
Not sure if this should be a PM or in the DCC section.....anyway your post is a timely reminder that I have been neglecting this thread. Although I have been away sailing a lot this summer, hence my late reply, I have actually made quite a lot of progress with both tracklaying and scenery so hopefully I will be able to post some updates in the next week or so.
I think my most satisfying progress is with RR & Co computor control.....although the layout is nowhere near complete I have been able to reproduce at the touch of one button:
Passenger train leaves teminus and enters storage siding over 4 turnouts which are all automatically set
Train stops with engine over Kaydee magnet
Engine reverses a millisecond and uncouples
Engine moves forward a few inches clear of the coaches
Second Engine leaves relief spur (point having been re set)
Second Engine Couples with Coaches and departs for terminus (relief spur point being reset)
Original Engine reverses thru the siding, which is now clear, into the relief spur...point again reset
At the same time I have an autocoach shuttling back and forth into an adjacent siding with the storage
entry throat points being reset each passs.
I am sure this is commonplace to RR&Co veterans but to me this absolutely amazing. The abilty to fine tune loco speeds and speed limits is astonishing...............I think I will reprint this in the DCC section.......I would like to see more discussion there...I find the RR&Co forum a little stacatto although the guy from Whidby Island P Turvil is super helpful.
What stage are you at with RR&Co?
PS I dont often get over to Victoria but if I do I will try and contact you beforehand
Regards
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??? posted on Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:22 pm
Summer is over so I guess its time to update this thread. Despite the absence of posts I have actually made a lot of progress. The 10 road storage yard is now completed and operational.....DCC and RR&Co computor control with 22 separate occupancy detected blocks......I think some are redundant now because apparently RR&Co will allow 2 locos in the same block when shunting.
I have also installed the sky backscene and the trim for the backscene and front of layout
In the foreground you can see the two road exit from the storage yard. I have maintained a minimum of 36" radius but still managed to gain some space so the hole in the right hand corner is destined to become a coal mine which will create a load of additional traffic through the branch at the front of the storage yard
Just to recap the layout is approx 18'x10' in the shape of a hollow square with the boards generally 30" wide.
I am still struggling with print screen the red box says "10 road storage sidings" I will change the colour code next post
The only sections with track laid are the storage section with the branch in front and the 4 road main line exit from the storage yard and even that is not quite true as I have just started ripping up the branch goods yard even though it was semi detailed and operational......well sort of.... I continued to have problems with the 3 way point at the entrance to the goods yard and I was never happy with the way it lead off the the branch line......so I have decided to bite the bullet and extend the carriage siding as the goods yard entrance and take advantage of the space created on the other side of the 2 road storage exit.....I am also going to start my conversion to tortoises here........yet another challenge!
Although I have a fair amount of time to spend on the layout I have huge problems determining priorities..........Track laying, Scenery, Chipping the loco stud, converting to Kaydees, weathering the stock, mastering (or at least learning) the RR&Co programmes......the list goes on and on. In many ways I should focus all my energy on track laying and leave the scenery and structure until it is completed......budgetary considerations make this unrealistic......DCC with computor control is very capital intensive.....on the other hand I have loads of buildings,kits and scenery from my previous layouts so once I can locate them in the various storage units its relatively easy to clean them up/modify them and put them in place.......so I tend to do a little bit of everything Right now I am focussing on getting the scenery in front of the storage yard complete and the relay of the goods yard
These shots show the difference in level between branch and storage.....this will be covered by retaining walls and behind them 1/2 relief Terraced Houses......just beyond the station you can see the mock up of a road bridge and beyond that the houses and mill that occupy the corner where the storage exit curves round
In front of the exit curve I have a larger space and I am trying to work out how to fill this effectively
The Metcalfe kits and scratchbuilt warehouse were from a similar scene in my old layout except they faced the other way......
The house backs have a little detailing with Wills drain pipes etc. I filled the gap between the houses and the Mill with some backscene cutouts but I think I will remove them they look too flat and artificial
The 4 road main line is only 9" deep because the branch and brewery will occupy the front at a lower level....so I have to use cut out backscenes here
The line is rising 1" because I need the clearance for a low level 3 road storage for the branch under the terminus
This is the start of the mainline scenic section so the track is ballasted and there are home signals (not working) controlling the down line.....when I finish the embakment there will similar signals for the down line.
So thats the progress to date....now I have to finish the 1/2 relief terrace houses. Sorry about this duplicate I have spent forever trying to get rid of it
Regards from a rather damp Vancouver
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??? posted on Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:53 pm
The Metcalfe 1/2 Relief Terraced houses have been detailed and placed in position between the branch line and the storage lines
They are set up in modules that can easily be moved so I can access the storage lines.
The walls cover the gaps
The walls are from Langley and this section is at least 15 years old and has seen a lot of service! The moss/ivy conceals wear and tear!
Generally I hope to separate the different vintages of wall by bridges etc but here I have a ten year gap side by side which will eventually require some attention.
At present there ae two modules of houses and one of shops
I need 2 more Metcalfe kits to finish the run and I have another 7' of wall to install on this end but I am leaving it until the goods yard relay is complete
These shots are not great but I think they convey the overall effect of establishing time and place and serve to conceal the storage yards
This is from the engine shed end
and this from the station/goods yard end.....
In the left hand side you can see part of a bridge which is the current project and is the start of filling this area in front of the storage exit
Thats this weekends project
Regards from Vancouver
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??? posted on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:00 am
I have filled in the area that I talked about in my last post......surprise surprise more Metcalfe 1/2 relief buildings
They are set up to imply that there is more depth and there is a street going off to the right.
They are again moveable modules because they are shielding the throat of the storage yards and I have no doubt once I start intensive operations there will be all manner of problems in that area. The connecting pavement segments are permanently in place and show little vignettes of the railway and backscene beyond
This shows the overall effect with the road bridge added
Iain Rice's book on Industrial Layouts has been a big influence on the design of this layout. I believe one of his "signature elements in a welsh industrial scene is a skewed road bridge.....this is my attempt
The bridge is removeable because it is over a couple of key points on the branch line. The supports on the near side are rather large but they hide the two point motors that I had to surface mount after the peco polarity switches failed.
The area in front of the bridge will have the signal box and the area beyond will have the small loco shed
My remainng Langley walls are destined for the goods yard end so I am using Wills here but the bridge hides the difference.....they do need toning down though.
The near grey ballasted track will run past a brewery to a 3 road low level storage. The far one rises to join the high level main line and on to the terminus as yet unbuilt and un planned!
This is the landscape view with the station platform waiting for its buildings. The picture has to go.....I know! I also need to build some chimneys to cover the join in the sky backscene
From a distance I think I have created a reasonably credible urban scene.....closer to I have some misgivings. The last Metcalfe shops are a little too smug and prosperous....more home counties than the gritty industrial mining town I was aiming for. My only excuse is that the buildings were already to go and complete the storage screen if I had modelled from scratch (which I may eventually do, although I rather doubt it) it would have taken weeks. I have been building the layout for 2 years now.....less than 40% is complete and I am not yet in a position to run trains on a regular basis......compromises compromises
Apart from my doubts about establishing the location I am also worried about establishing the date.....1947.... in a more positive fashion. I am pretty careful about locos and rolling stock (although I have a lot of shirt button logos that should go) but I dont have many cars or lorries......I am building a couple of coopercraft kis as Army trucks and I plan to have some squaddies on the station........the forces were a far more visible presence in those days. Maybe I should plan a couple of cleared bomb sites and a pill box or air raid shelter
Enough of worrying about the glass being half empty..... after all the layout is progressing and our local hockey team have just beaten Montreal 7-1 (think Liverpool v Everton)
Regards from Vancouver
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