The Fatadder

Now that looks amazing!

Thanks for the info bridge, I think my loosely inspired by Brent layout will stick with the original structure. I'm surprised there are so few photos with it in the background, it makes a much more interesting back drop to a photo than the other bridge which appears a lot more often

Quick question, When was the east bridge replaced with the straight one that is in place today?

The plan is now almost ready for printing, however I remain to be convinced about the left hand double slip. The radius are all within tolerance, however there is very little space in the K crossing area. so much so the check rails have to be very very short. I am worried about the impact on running, so this week I intend to try moving the entrance point-work slightly further around the Plymouth curve, in order that the slip can be stretched by another inch or so. The fiddle-yard has also needed a few changes, shifting the throat point-work slightly closer to the tunnel mouth in order to lengthen the sidings. As I am away from home a fair bit for work, it has left me a lot of time in Airport Lounges, Hotels and Trains to spend doing research. But not a lot of time for any real modelling. A positive of this is that it has enabled me to do a lot of research into coaching formations for the layout. The formation for the 1947 reviera which was posted by Chris F on another thread was the first to be chosen (seeing as it gives an excuse to run three Hawksworth coaches). For the rest the carriage working documents for 1947 and 1947 through workings, along with the 1956 Plymouth workings (all on the BR Carriage Yahoo Group) have been incredibly valuable, and I can't thank them enough for sharing it. Finally thanks to John Lewis on the same group for sharing some fantastic information on the Kingsbridge branch workings. I have also been putting some more thought into the design of the fiddle yard. Those who have seen my previous layouts will be well aware of the shortfalls (and lack of planning) when it came to fiddle-yards. Mostly as a result of there being not enough space at home to have the fiddle-yard set up, meaning it was never an immediate priority. This culminated with Blackcombe Tor for which the fiddle-yard (if you could describe 4 tracks taped to a board as a fiddle-yard), which was assembled the in the leisure centre in Leatherhead the night before Scaleforum! So, with all this carriage information in hand I have set about doing some proofing work to ensure that the fiddle-yard should be capable of serving a good running session. Kingsbridge ­­– This is formed of a through central line, with a loop either side. The idea being that it represents Kingsbridge station, so that a train can arrive, run around and then depart. The first loop is for the freight service (57xx and up to 3ft of wagons), while the second is for passenger (which will hold a 4575 and 2 E140 B Sets along with space for a van or BCK added to the rear to be attached to a London bound service. There will be a second siding off the lower loop which will hold the second B Set when it is not required. Paddington: This will comprise 3 loops (one 6ft and two 8ft), with the possibility of using the mainline as a forth road. Road 1: Down Cornish Riviera Limited BTK A, TK, FK, RC, CK, TK, BTK B, King Road 2a: Exeter – Plymouth (Set 23) BCK A, TK, 51xx Road 2b: Down Goods 4ft freight, 28xx Road 3: Newton Abbot – Penzance (M Set 10) drops BG at Brent BG, BTK A, TK, CK, BTK B, Hall Mainline: TBC – although either a milk train or the TPO appeal. Penzance: As per Paddington Road 1: Plymouth – Liverpool Castle, BTK B, TK, BTK A, LMS BTK B, LMS RC, LMS BCK Road 2a: Up Freight WD 280, 4ft of oil tanks Road 2b: Up Parcels Grange, GWR BG, LMS BG, 4 wheel van. Road 3: Plymouth – Exeter (Set 11) Pair 4575, BTK B, CK, TK, BTK A, BCK A (dropped at Brent) Mainline: Up Cornish Riviera (Centenary) Castle/pilot, BTK B, TK, TK, CK, RF, RO, BTK I think I have about half of the required coaches, with most of the rest needing to come from Comet (I think there is a need for one more Sunshine BCK, and one Hawksworth TK to come RTD). Although a lot of these do still require paint (such as the 5 Colletts I am expecting to be delivered this week.) Loco wise there are still a lot of missing locos but gaps will be slowly closed over the next year as I sell off more modern locos.

Gutted that I wasnt able to make it down to see it one last time, of all the timing for my 2 year old to catch a bug! Still, cant wait to see Cheddar on the circuit!

Good to see another model of 817, mine is still have finished after finding my vi trains model has the wrong grey (after respraying the cabsides in the right shade!) One day i might even finish it as a memory of my time studying Engineering! If you are interested I have found a complete Motorail etch (+ GUV doner and Bachmann B4 bogies), along with one additional side. The other side / ends must be somewhere, and i will have another look over Easter.

Aha I have a tired b set which is likely to go the same way now...

Thanks, time to go and update my list...

I need to brush up on my coach books I think! An E158 compo was my thought for the second coach, so I am happy to have (hopefully) got one right at least. Does anyone make a D45 kit? I cant see one listed in my notes of available kits. Will be adding the formation to my planned build list at any rate.

An interesting find from the my trawling the internet for suitable 1947 South Devon photos, is this working http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/headlines---latest-reports-and-photographs/items-added-on-the-16th-february-2016-those-added-most-recently-come-first West Country 21c141, with 4 coaches (I believe comprised of a toplight BTK (B), a Sunshine stock CK, a full break (for which my knowledge of diagrams is servilely lacking) and another Toplight BTK (A). Very modelable, I think I might be trawling ebay for a suitable Southern liveried West Country (although may apply a bit of modellers licence and go for Tavistock instead...) The 1956 Plymouth carriage working booklet has also shown up lots of interesting short formations, an M Set dropping off a van at Brent sounding particularly interesting.

Very interesting thanks, based on that I think I will have at least one with double lining and gwr over crest, and one with the single lining (while the other two will end up with the full Hawksworth livery, assuming that Hornby don't end up doing it in their 2017 plans). At any rate the amount of coaches I have which are in need of lining, if I don't master the technique there will be problems!

Not sure how I have not read this before, but very impressive. Rather reassuring to me, seeing just how good hand built OO track can look, having pondered converting from P4 back to OO for my south Devon layout. Looking at this makes me think I will not be disappointed.

The GW practice was to have the corridor on one side along a whole formation. So if you look at a service in the working files eg the 07:30 Paddington to Plymouth The formation is loco, BTK B, TK, CK, CK, TK, BTK A (where the B means the break end is at the loco end and the A means the break end is away from the loco. On other railways this would mean the corridor would swap sides when you get to the second break. However on the GW using a RH and LH BTK means that it remains constant. The other area where they are useful is in composites either side of a dining car, again here you want to have the first class ends of both CKs next to the diner, and to maintain the corridor you have a LH and RH version.

Gerry, Were there many in that condition post war with the GWR over crest and single lining? With my first batch of 4 due to be ordered this week, I'm dreading adding the extra brown band and additional lining

Not seen many formations where the diagrams are listed, but I remember Chris F posting a Cornish Riviera formation from '47 including the diagrams which if I remember rightly was made up of Hawksworth thirds / break thirds and the rest being sunshine stock (with a 70ft restaurant) I think most of the formations on the comet website only mention the coach type rather than the diagram, which won't be much help. For the moment my formations have been put together by randomly slotting the right type of coach in each set (ensuring only the sunshine stock goes in the cross country's)

One more set of track refinements is going to be needed tonight… I have been looking some more at the prototype Brent, and while I still have no desire to make an accurate model (for a start I am 99% certain due to the compression of length it would be impossible to locate the goods shed in the correct location.) But I am finding it very useful to use the geography of the real location to help get the details right for the civil engineering. As mentioned yesterday, my view now is that the planned viaduct is probably a step too far given the increased length of the fiddle yard. So this has left me looking for alternatives. I like the photo opportunity of a train crossing a viaduct (and the options to take low down shots looking up at the loco). So some sort of bridge is going to be necessary. Looking back at the prototype two features come to mind, first the multi arch bridge over the Avon, looking at the partial photos I have found online, I really like the multiple phases of construction having different styles. Hopefully at some point I will be able to get down to Brent and take some photos. My thinking is to have this as per the prototype, immediately after west road bridge. I am also going to do a quick test with the track to see how well I can incorporate the up loop while I am at it (I assume it is the inclusion of this loop rather than the conversion from single broad gauge to double standard gauge which requires the extra width to the bridge?) Further to this I am also thinking that I will add a second bridge just before the fiddle yard entrance, based upon the Aish Lane prototype, (which would be connected to the road crossing the down end of the station.)

Very nice, full Comet kit I assume? Making me think that I really need to get some paint on my H33, oh for some warm weather!

I had rejected EM for the same reason as the plan not being viable in P4, there are too many points which breach the minimum radius. If the garage had been a couple of feet wider in both directions I would not be having these problems.... The other issue with EM would be the cost associated with rewheeling everything to yet another standard. As for OOSF, I never quite got my head around why I would want to be making my gauge narrower still, nor what the minimum radius would be. Moving a little further with the planning, I have made a start on the fiddle yard, taking the minimum radius down towards 700mm has allowed a much better working fiddleyard. comprising 2 up loops and 3 down loops (each being long enough to handle a minimum of a King with six 61ft coaches. based upon my rough calculation at least 3 lines should be able to handle a King on a set of six 70ft coaches. The Branch is intended to only hold 2 trains at any one time, one passenger and one freight with a central run around loop. Representing the station at the end of the branch. Still need to do some final work setting up the slips, and also adding catch points. The key thing now is to get the plan printed, so that work can start on checking siding lengths are workable. Im also interested to see in the flesh the left hand curve board, I want to do some more testing to see if the original planned viaduct will work, or if the expansion of the fiddleyard is going to mean there is not enough room to do the job properly. I have been looking at Glaze, Slade and Blatchford viaducts for inspiration if a south Devon location ends up being chosen. I like the idea of having the old pillars alongside it. The final job, I really think that I need to get on and build at least one Comet 70ft coach for clearance purposes. until that is done, I guess a mk3 will have to suffice. the fact that a 70ft restaurant is required for my 1947 Limited, means that will probably be the first...

I can see one of those coming my way, gaining Hawksworth livery as though nationalisation never happened!

In the end went for option 3, swapping the hand of the blue point and improving the angles. I think the plan is now ready to add the slips and catch points. Along with the fiddleyard I had hoped to save time and just use some long radius Peco in the yard, but it looses too much length. The points must be on the end of the curve to enable (in each direction) plus 6 coaches in one loop, and a loco plus 4 in the next Ideally a third road will be added to contain a long casset (along the lines of Peterborough North) for adding extra formations onto the layout. . The branch will have a sector plate at the end of the tunnel. im hoping that baseboard construction can be completed over Easter, in the mean time need to print out the templates and position stock to prove it all works

A little more Templot progress, The tighter OO min radius and the GW points has helped to make a little more space in the London end of the yard. This means the point for the loop is moved out of the platform. There are two options, the prototype (in blue) with a shorter loop, or the red option I'm undecided as to which I prefer. If this goes ahead in OO, I need a standard. Some P4 stock will need converting back, this will still have sprung w irons etc and will likely get Gibson wheels. Locos will all need to stay with the OEM wheel sets (assuming recent designs) for older toolings at the least an etched chassis will be built, while kits will likely end up with a mix of romfords for the county and Saint (as they came with the kit) and gibsons henceforth. I also like the idea of being able to use bog standard peco track in the fiddleyard, but that is not critical) what would best standard to go for?

Thanks, I think that has solved my issues! If the prototype has 2 single bores it's not so implausible that my branch would be in a third bore! Now looking at your thread on the tunnel works on old rmweb http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=36887

I think i am right in thinking the min radius for EM is still >800 with greater still recommended for large locos and long coaches? Will have a play with the GW crossings, I hadn't realised the actual angles were different. It's not going to find me a circa 300mm improvement in radius, but might make the OO plan work better.

Thanks for the input, very handy to know the impact. I'm going to redraw the layout in OO this evening and see if the more generous minimum radius means I can move the point. My thought is to shift the cattle pens to the bottom right spur, and have 2 A7 points off the main yard track and the branch directly off the slip.