rodent279
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Posts posted by rodent279
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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:
InterCity made a concerted effort to fit all their stock with CDL by 1994 - a fact which was greatly helped by the introduction of fixed formations with DVTs / DBSOs limiting the number of stock which required fitment.
Of course with the traditional / unmodified HST fleet having only relatively recently been withdrawn from InterCity routes they were in fact one of the last of the former BR sectors to get rid of slam doors.
Network SouthEast didn't have the option to fit CDL to its huge fleet of Mk1 EMUs (particularly as they were well overdue for replacement) so passengers on many London commuter routes had to wait until privatisation started delivering new stock - and in some cases that was quite a drawn out affair with slam door units lasting well into the first decade of this century.
What was Regional railways made a good start with the replacement of 1st Gen DMUs by Pacers and Sprinters - but their problem was there simply wasn't enough new units built so you did get some 1st gen units or loco hauled stock limping on into the post privatisation era until TurboStar DMUs started arriving in substantial numbers.
So, to be used to using slam door stock on your own, not as a child with an adult opening the doors for you, you'd have to be say about 10-12 in about 2005, which would put you early 30's now. To be used to using non-CDL fitted slam doors on the mainline, you'd have to be about the same age in about 1992, so 44-ish now.
So there will be plenty of parents of say 7-15 year old now who will have little if any experience of slam door stock, and possibly a few grand parents as well. That's exactly what one of the prime markets of the Jacobite will be-parents of kids who are HP fans.
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5 minutes ago, SR71 said:
I'm in my 4th decade and remember slam door stock coming through East Croydon although admittedly I was sub 5. All the doors opening on a still moving train made a lasting impression!
You might remember seeing it as a toddler, but to be used to using it in everyday service you'd have to be 5-10 years older.
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15 minutes ago, Reorte said:
When did all the Mk3s end up with it? I didn't think they were built like that and it was quite a late add-on, but I'm probably completely wrong.
Early 1990's I think. So 30 years ago, and to be used to them as a traveller you'd have to be in your 40's now.
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1 hour ago, Nick C said:
That doesn't always work though - you can easily end up in "Think of the children" situations (especially when the more excitable media get involved) - just look at the various attempts on a regular basis to regulate the internet - It's easy for a paper or politician to say "let's ban the kind of encryption the bad guys are using", but you first need to listen to the experts when they point out that what's being demanded is impossible...
Exactly - the last slam-door stock in regular mainline use was withdrawn 20 years ago - a very large proportion of the population will never have come across them...
I think you'd have to be at least 30 to have experience of slam door stock in mainline service, at least 40 for that stock not to be CDL fitted, and probably in your 6th decade to have experienced a mainline railway where slam door stock without CDL was the norm.
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34 minutes ago, AY Mod said:
Parents are also responsible for keeping their brutes under control & out of danger.
Parents may well be responsible, but does the "brute" deserve death or serious injury because of the negligence of another person misusing a door, or from a malfunctioning door?
Anyone who thinks that it is not worth trying to mitigate that risk needs to take a look at themselves.
I'm all for personal responsibility, but time and again real world experience proves that it is not enough.
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7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:
CDL was introduced for one very simple reason - it would remove an unregulated, irrational, decision process from the control of train doors, i.e. it would stop human beings doing something they shouldn't do and opening a door at the wrong time. In consequence it would reduce the number of deaths which occurred every year due to the lack of something to prevent human beings stupidly hurting or killing themselves and others. And somebody probably also put the usual method of costing such a step in improving safety against the cost of lives saved.
I think this is probably the most succinct explanation of the need for CDL that i have seen. It is a fact that people cannot be trusted to alway act sensibly, within the rules and with consideration for others. And it is a fact that equipment (I.e. manual door locking mechanisms) can an do fail. CDL, whilst I am sure not infallible, adds an extra layer of protection against either misuse or malfunction of slam doors. We need to remember that not all "door incidents" were caused by numpties who deserved to be removed from the gene pool.
The argument that "No-one has thus far been killed or injured" (ttbomk) on the WHL steam excursions is, as has been stated above, a shoal of red herrings. There is nothing special about that line or the trains that makes it exempt; rather, the opposite. The associations with the Harry Potter films, the fact that it stops on Glenfinnan viaduct, and the fact that a large proportion of passengers will be there for the Harry Potter connections (and therefore not necessarily familiar with trains, let alone slam door trains), makes it a matter of time before something untoward happens.
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On 21/04/2024 at 22:06, Colin_McLeod said:
Maybe not visually looking like a model, but here is a prototype track cleaning vehicle.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/zZ1PFXXcCTKKRf6T/
Serious question - why would you do that on the real railway? Something to do with keeping track circuits working in a particular location?
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And whose common sense are we talking about? The general public? Are they supposed to understand about line speeds and traffic density, and behave accordingly?
Common sense is such a vague, undefinable quantity that it cannot be used to govern rules about safety critical situations. You only have to spend 5 min behind the wheel of a car or on a bike to see that most people don't use their "common sense". They just do whatever requires the least thought and the least effort.
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26 minutes ago, BoD said:
That is fair enough if it were only you involved and happy to take the risk. Others (the majority?) might prefer to have mitigations put in place to reduce that risk. I know you were speaking in more general terms, but I wouldn’t like to be the one hit by a moving open door because someone else found fitting CDL ‘obnoxious’.Or indeed having to be the unfortunate person having to scrape human remains from track, platforms, carriage sides etc.
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9 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:
CDL not only helps protect passengers but also staff, it says something about WCR that they don't really seem to care about their own staff being injured by open doors.
Did the industry ever produce any figures showing how many railway staff going about their duties were killed or injured due to the misuse of, or malfunctioning of, slam doors?
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- Popular Post
On 08/04/2024 at 11:32, Northmoor said:Some may complain about 'Elf 'n' Safety but I consider the fact that in most years now, not only are no passengers killed but no-one dies working on the railway either, to be something worth applauding LOUDLY.
This is worth reposting.
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5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:
I apologise if I’ve missed it in the 70 odd pages on here, but how many people have been injured in the 40 years of running steam on the West Highland?
Something like 5 deaths per year nationwide, and dozens of injuries, during the first 10 or so years, up to about 1994, from when the majority of pasenger trains started to have some flavour of power operated doors, or manual doors under the control of CDL.
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10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
I meant, rather specifically, the North Sea from Nottingham. Certainly the Norfolk coast via the M&GN but that was rather further and, I think, a bit more up-market?
The Midland was very good at getting to the sea by proxy, but more for goods than seaside holidays - Liverpool by the CLC, Southampton via the M&SWJR, Hull by the H&BR, etc. Bournemouth by the S&DJR is an counter-instance but again, a high-class destination, likewise the Ulster coast. Leave the hoi polloi to the Great Northern and Great Central!
Also, of course, Tilbury, Sowfind* & Shoeburyness 🙂
Pedantic? Me? Surely not!
* aka Southend
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And Morecambe, and Heysham.....
Bristol isn't a million miles away from the sea either, but maybe that's stretching the point a little!
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3 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:
The photo also answers my 'how were they fixed on'. It looks like it is hooked over the handrail.
Is Brylcream man wearing a black mac?
The phone makes me wonder how they communicated with the other testers in earlier times ie the LBSCR image.
Telephone technology had been around since the 1880's, so I'm sure a simple 2 way voice system would have been viable in the early 20th century.
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May also have been a composite image, with the loco under test taken with a plain background, and the other loco and track superimposed.
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Wonder if that's a posed photo? Can't help thinking where is the photographer? Have they posed the train, and got the loco in the background to move?
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No, I know it's not an 08, but how this for something different?
Venlo's answer to the Sheffield shunt.
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On 18/04/2024 at 09:36, phil-b259 said:
CDL does NOT ‘control’ the doors!
It does in the sense that doors can't be opened until released by the CDL mechanism, which is what i was getting at.
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On 15/04/2024 at 10:05, DaveF said:
Lakeside Fairburn 4MTT as CR 2085 Aug 75 J4604
The purists may moan & groan about authenticity, but that is a lovely livery, and it sits well on an already impressive looking machine.
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46 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:
* Given the dangers of an uncontrolled** hinged door hitting passengers on the platform as it opens and potentially causing injuries I doubt it’s a solution which would pass a proper risk assessment
But if the doors are under the overall control of CDL, there would be no more risk of that than with a door with conventional manual handles under the control of CDL. All the push buttons would do is allow the door to be pushed or pulled open once CDL has released the main door lock.
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9 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:
Any engineering firm capable of making them!Door locks are not jet engines and as such it’s perfectly possible to get a new batch made (particularly if you make use of ‘off the shelf’ solutions rather than seek exact replicas of BR locks)
Would they need a new safety case?
If you've got CDL and a power supply, why not fit push button door locks, such that pushing the button releases the door lock, allowing it to swing open under is own weight, in a controlled manner?
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2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:
I'm not surprised, the Telegraphs readership are generally very much right wing 'state actions = bad' 'private business = 'excellent' mentality with an added does of selfish self entitlement which comes from generally being well off.
Its not nicknamed the 'Torygraph' for nothing....
TBH, reading the Telegraph comments, it makes the D@!ly F@!l look rational, level headed and even handed.
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7 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:
The top voted post suggested that Brighton beach should be off limits as people might walk into the sea and drown...........
The thing is, they do!
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WCRC - the ongoing battle with ORR.
in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)
Posted · Edited by rodent279
Point is, to be familiar with using non-CDL fitted slam door stock, you have to be at least in your 30's, and then only in certain parts of the country.