nickb4141
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Posts posted by nickb4141
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14 hours ago, wombatofludham said:
Aaaanyways...
How about this for a mad idea to have a discussion about at the next brainstorming over a few Liffey Waters...
...a Class 150. With a few adaptations.
Hear me out. The 150 seems to be the railway equivalent of last night's curry smell, and are not going anywhere soon. The Bachmann model, whilst nice, has a few compromises and none of the three car sets, both the original prototype and the Centro and GMPTE 150/1 and 150/2 three car lash-ups have been made (although I have modified three three car lash-up sets and am happy not to have through lighting).
Now, the prototype units had a full intermediate car, and also had recessed drivers doors, so, with a different cab end slide, and another body tooling for the motor car, you could chuck out an NIR 450 class. That would be a good tribute to NIR's make do and mend design, which combined used English Electric diesel engines salvaged from scrap 70 class, some bomb damaged 80 class and possibly the odd spare from the Southern, bolted to second hand Mk1 underframes onto which were welded Class 150 style bodies, kitted out with PEP style low back seats, at a time when getting any money for trains was virtually impossible given the stranglehold Ulsterbus had on public transport funding at the time. One of these yokes even carried the Queen across Belfast at one point, Lord only knows what she thought of that.
Of course, there are more differences than the cab ends between the 450 and the 150 but oh, the joy, if you decide to progress a 450 when you announce you are planning a Castle Class, only for the fans of those poncey green painted things that took posh people to Cornwall, to collectively whine when it turns out to be an NIR DEMU. Northern Irish humour at it's best, naming the cut and shut 450 class after Castles. The only sort of Castle I like given my main line experience with those 4-6-0s resulted in two partially cancelled railtours when they developed tummy ache after being fired with something other than Welsh finest champagne coal.
Joking and pithiness aside, I can't help thinking that the 150 could be worth a punt despite the Bachmann offering. Price wise you would probably be competitive, they are widespread, have worn a paintbox worth of colours, have lasted from BR early sectorisation to now (and are knocking on for the same age as the trains they replaced) and if the tools were cleverly designed could also get the NIR 450 out on the back of the Sprinter, I can't help but think there is room for a competing model. And before the "why do you want more duplication" team start, to be honest, Bachmann's pricing would leave room for Accurascale to come in with a better detailed product at a similar price without the compromises some of the Bachmann models have due to the way they were designed. I would like many other units but given their longevity, colourful liveries, widespread use and possible crossover potential with the Ulster Castles subject to details etc, I have a strange feeling there could be a market for a better 150.I totally agree with you. Widespread use and a myriad of liveries. I’d also add to that, the Class 950 Ultrasonic unit as well - 3 liveries and it has operated EVERYWHERE on the UK network, so everyone would have an excuse to operate one!
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I can’t help thinking the Class 185 DMU in both 00 & N gauges would suit Revolution perfectly. Only two main liveries, which you seem to prefer than offering multiple versions. It complements your N gauge Mk5 TPE sets, Pendolinos and forthcoming 175’s and 180’s in various locations across the North.
Requests for the 185 crop up very frequently (see Accurascale’s new model request thread). Accurascale (rather bizarrely,) have discounted tooling them, as the potential transfer to Ireland for re-gauging didn’t happen.
I think the biggest obstacle to them being produced seems to be the ‘Chinese Whispers’ that another manufacturer is already working on them!
This seems to be the case with various multiple units at the moment - Electrostars, Class 120’s, 313/314/315’s, 153’s all have rumours floating about (as did the 320/321’s for seemingly ages, before Revolution took the plunge and announced an 00 version).
So how about it Revolution?
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On 21/03/2024 at 08:37, Accurascale Fran said:
Hi @scottrains29,
We did semi-seriously look at doing the 185 a few years ago when there were strong rumours that Irish Rail were going to buy a pool of them and regauge, but they opted for more 22000 ICRs instead.
I may be wrong on this (I wasnt the project manager and it was a few years ago) but the 185s are longer than other members of the Desiro family car wise, so it's hard to spin off a family from them).
Cheers!
Fran
Hi Fran,
That’s a shame that you’ve decided against the 185 - they seem to be cropping up in quite a number of posts on here. If Hornby can justify tooling the Flirt DMU’s, which are restricted to a much smaller geographical area and only have one livery, the 185 would seem commercially sound. Apparently the Flirt DMU’s have been selling well on pre orders, according to my local model shop, so maybe there are a few more multiple unit fans out there, than we are given credit for.
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On 19/03/2024 at 14:22, The Black Hat said:
I think you could be right. Accurascale would be a good choice to undercut Bachmann again with the release of something like the Turbostar - which Electrostar option...
Other DMUs to consider I think would be:
Voyager/Meridian 220/221/222
Class 185 - with Desiro options
All singing all dancing IEP - 800/801/802... etc
110
HST...I would agree with everything on your list apart from the IEP’s. Hornby’s model, whilst a bit overpriced, is still a good model and I’d rather Accurascale tooled some of the missing DMU gaps, than duplicate a perfectly good model.
I would also add the class 195/196/197 DMU’s which have a lot of generic similarities in the design.
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On 08/03/2024 at 20:14, wombatofludham said:
Without working at Barwell or Margate, no one will know for sure if units sell in expected quantities for the respective companies. However.
1) Hornby have retooled their lemon flavoured 4-VEP. When he announced this unexpected rabbit out of the hat (surprisingly not holding his nose given his kettle fetish) Simon Kohler actually said, on video, that the prices some of their previously poor output were fetching second hand meant it was worth the investment in a retool to address the lemony issues (I paraphrase but I distinctly remember the comment because I'd been saying much the same on this 'ere forum). If units were slow sellers, they would have spent the money on yet another green tea urn. When the duff first production run of 4-VEPs regularly sell on Tatbay for north of £200 given the Bay of Tat is the closest thing we have to an open and free market, that also is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest demand for units is strong.
2) Despite the comments on here about pricing, Bachmann have gone ahead with the retooled 4-CEPs in refurbished, rebuilt 1980s condition. They have also recently released the 2-HAP. The retool for the CEP would have cost several hundred thousand pounds as all four coach bodies required a retool, although they didn't have to tool up new underpinnings. If they were getting feedback that the existing CEP models were sales lemons, they would have decided to spend that money elsewhere and given they are in competition for production slots with other companies in the Chinese owned group if the units were not selling, they would have used the precious slots for some other purpose. They didn't, went ahead with the release and did so despite some price blowback.
3) Dapol have announced a Class 323 unit which no-one was expecting, and Revolution have given in to lobbying to upscale their N scale 321. Neither of these companies can be considered big enough to "take a punt" on a risky venture, they must expect to be able to make a commercial product.
Cheap sales items a decade or more ago in some retailers is no evidence of slack sales today. Serious six figure plus sums being spent by companies, none of whom can be considered business suicidalists and who need to make every penny count, is to my mind a better indication of the sales potential of electric units. That Bachmann can launch the renovated 4-CEP at prices in the region of £500-600 having all the sales data of the original CEP models suggests they see a market that will give enough return on investment, and a hard nosed business decision to produce the model to me trumps any spurious pointing to past occasional sales reductions as "proof".Well said! 👏
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On 26/02/2024 at 22:08, Adam1701D said:
OO Sales are three to four times those in N, so some of the liveries that didn't make the cut originally may well do so this time!
Don’t disagree with you on that Adam, although not sure the Revolution guys see it that way, hence there are more livery options in N gauge for the Class 175’s and 180’s than there are for the 00 gauge versions!
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19 hours ago, Kris said:
120 has been picked up in n gauge by revolution.
Yes, but frustratingly, not in 00! They seem to be under the impression that another manufacturer is looking at it in 00, but whether this is true or just ‘Chinese Whispers’ , who knows?
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Another vote for a Class 185 DMU! It seems to be getting requested as much as the Class 120 DMU has for the last few years, but strangely none of the manufacturers seem to have picked up on either…yet!
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8 hours ago, NBL said:
To those commenting, it's your responsibility to inform the retailer if your card has changed since pre-ordering. Not the other way around
Take some responsibility.
In your opinion!
I’m not sure many people on here, would think the same way as you.
At the end of the day, if a customer is giving you their business, most model shops (thankfully,) have the common courtesy of contacting the customer if there is an issue with the card. Rails did this, but only by email, and almost a week after the models were released!
Bear in mind, the order was placed two and a half years ago and, like a lot of people, I have multiple credit cards, so I don’t always remember which card has changed details since then! It was a genuine oversight.
I paid a £30 deposit in May 21, so I don’t think it’s being unreasonable to expect my choice to be reserved for me.
So why on earth, do you think I should ‘take responsibility’ for that?!
I sincerely hope you don’t work in any industry that is customer-facing, as charm is not one of your strengths, is it sunshine?! 😜
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2 hours ago, APT Fan said:
I pre-ordered mine about the same time and I'd be absolutely gutted if I missed out after waiting two and a half years. What I didn't like about pre-ordering with Rails was the lack of communication when pre-orders are arriving / arrived. I waited two years for the Bachy 47 and then one day I just had an email to say that payment had been taken and it was on its way, luckily I was in that day and my card hadn't changed which is a good possibly after two years. My experience with other retailers is that they give you a courtesy call to confirm the details and then to sort out payment and delivery. I know some retailers complain about being messed about with pre-orders but I thought Rails took a deposit? Do you lose the deposit if they cannot supply what you've pre-ordered and decline their 'alternative'?
Rails sent me an email to say they couldn’t process my credit card late last Saturday, which I didn’t see until after they closed (they have my mobile number on file, but didn’t think to ring me) In the meantime, they sold out of the sound version online so I purchased a non sound version, as everywhere I looked was selling out. I sent an email reply to say what I had done and I got a reply on Monday morning to say they wouldn’t be refunding my deposit and I ‘well and truly had my legs slapped’ for doing this and as a gesture they would offer a gift card for the £30. I told them this was taking the mickey and eventually they relented and refunded the £30 deposit. They didn’t acknowledge the fact that they’d taken over a week from the 56’s arriving to contact me or the fact that they didn’t hold the version I pre-ordered. They also saw fit to sit on my order for five days before sending next day delivery, eventually arriving today. The moral of the story is Rails do what works for them, definitely not the customer!
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1 minute ago, RBE said:
Hi Nick, no the none sound fitted locos do not have a speaker pre installed. The speaker and chip are part of the extra price paid for the sound version. The fans do operate yes however we are currently in contact with ESU as to whether they should operate on DC.
Well will keep you updated when we know more.
If you ordered a sound version then Rails should be able to swap the loco for the one that you ordered!
Thanks for your very speedy reply! Rails were not very helpful at all this week. I felt like I’d been told off by the Headmistress in one of their emails! I was a bit peeved to say the least, as had preordered a sound fitted model two and a half years ago, but my credit card had changed in that time and in the week that they took to contact me after the 56’s were released, they had kindly sold my sound fitted version to someone else and are now showing they’ve sold out! I’ll order the Class 60 elsewhere! 😆
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I wonder if anyone can help with a couple of questions re the model I received today. I pre-ordered a sound fitted Colas 56 from Rails in May 2021, but they managed to cock up my order and I’ve got an analogue one instead!
1. Does the analogue model come with a speaker pre fitted? I’ve had a quick look through the manual, but strangely it doesn’t seem to mention DCC sound fitting?
2. The fans appear to be non operational? Is this just on the analogue models (I’m sure I read the model had operating fans, but I could have got that wrong!)
Thanks in advance, if anyone knows the answers!
Cheers, Nick
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4 hours ago, tractionman said:
worth keeping an eye on the S/H Heljan CoBos that appear here:
https://clarkrailworks.com/collections/Heljan/?sort_by=created-descending
Thanks for the recommendation! Just had a quick look and the only Class 28 is, (you guessed it,) sold! 😁 I will however check back periodically, so hopefully, I’ll strike gold!
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On 22/01/2024 at 14:36, Michael Hodgson said:
With ebay you have to look only at items that sold - and ignore the grossly over-optimistic starting prices of things that are repeatedly relisted. Even then, it only takes a few moneyed types fighting over an item for an auction to reach silly money.
I sold my Hornby Dublo Co-bo a good many years ago on ebay because I had seen some auctions resulting in prices I consider completely unjustified at the time. But that was only 1 loco and an auction with a high starting price (I would have been happy to keep it had it not sold). I was once at a railwayana auction and saw something which the auctioneer would have expected to go for perhaps £20 to £50 that sold for £2000.
Current Ebay prices are not enough in themselves to indicate sufficiently serious demand to warrant a re-run, though they could be low enough to confirm that a rerun isn't a good idea.
If you look at sold prices on EBay, there are quite a few reaching over £200, so while, yes,I agree it’s not an exact science, it does suggest there is at least some demand for these. The only alternative is the ‘expressions of interest’ polls which, in my opinion are a complete finger in the air and absolutely meaningless. It’s been quite a while since the last batch sold out everywhere, so I would have thought it’d be worth a punt in releasing some more at some point? Incidentally, I wasn’t interested in Class 28’s when the first two batches were released, as they didn’t fit in with my layouts at the time. Currently, I’m planning a model based on the Furness line, so these are very much part of the scene, so I’d be looking for 2-3 if they ever do become available again. Yes, that’s only me, but I’d imagine there are other modellers whose modelling interests ‘evolve’ over time.
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Is it only LNER 9 car sets Kato are producing? Just seems a bit strange not to offer the GWR equivalents, unless I’ve missed something?
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The prices these reach on EBay are stratospheric! I’m really surprised that no one at Heljan has picked up on this and announced a new batch - there definitely seems to be a pent up demand, based on what people are prepared to pay for them!
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9 hours ago, Charnwood said:
Anything southern region from mid 1970s to mid 1980s. Blue or blue/ grey. The most numerous EMUs in the UK and woefully under-represented in the modelling world. Favourites probably 4-SUB - lifespan of several decades and hundreds of the things made or 4-CIG - another massive hole. Price? Accurascale quality with DCC sound and the like? £500 max. Quantity? Up to 4-5 of either but you'd have to do alternative running numbers! Always thought manufacturers missed a trick here. Many of the MUs were identical but modellers don't want literally the same one. Provide the same model but slap different transfers on it and it becomes a very different story. That's my thoughts anyway: bound to be differing views 😁
Rob
Definitely agree about the 4CIG! Three mouldings, with no significant changes made to the prototype throughout a 40 year plus life and multiple liveries, operating across all three sections of the Southern Region! In addition, it has lots of current models that complement it. Probably makes sense for Hornby to utilise their soon to be released, revised Class 423, but I won’t hold my breath!
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I think the simple answer to how much people are prepared to pay for units, is to be at least in line with competitors. Bachmann have produced many units over the years, so there must be a market for them, as they wouldn’t continue to invest in new ones. Their Class 158’s and 117’s and 121’s are excellent models at pretty reasonable prices, so would provide a good benchmark for prices of 1/2/3 car models, both DCC Ready and Sound Fitted, (although I do feel their CEP’s and BEP’s were overpriced at an RRP of £500!)
Dapol also seems to have pitched the price and specifications of their recently announced Class 323 well.
Accurascale have already demonstrated their capabilities with their Irish units, so I’m surprised Fran is trying to gauge opinion on the commercial viability. I wouldn’t have thought a UK outline multiple unit wouldn’t be any more of a risk than an Irish outline unit, taking market size into account. Yes, the prototype picked I will be a definite factor, but reading through this thread there seems to be a lot of people requesting what appears to be some sound commercial choices.
I do wonder if Fran’s question was to deflect that Accurascale don’t have any immediate plans for UK units? My personal opinion is that they’ll still be in the ‘Space Race’ in the immediate future, to produce high spec loco replacements for some of the ‘low hanging fruit’ of ageing models from other manufacturers (Class 08, HST, West Country/Battle of Britain, A4 all spring to mind).
That said, as someone who is ‘crazy’ about multiple units, I sincerely hope I’m wrong and Fran has all sorts of goodies ready to announce!
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Has anyone heard who the ‘mystery manufacturer’ is for a newly tooled 153 yet?
(Charlie alluded to one being in work at the moment, but was tight lipped as to who it was!)….Would have bet it was Heljan, with the new 7mm version currently in work , but Charlie said it’s not them??
Accurascale? Rapido?
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7 hours ago, The Pilotman said:
Someone did a few days ago…
Really? Please do enlighten me…….I haven’t seen anything that explains the phenomenon of N gauge being more viable than 00 gauge products? Block wagons, I could possibly understand, but we’re talking about a 2 or 3 car multiple unit here?
7 hours ago, The Pilotman said:
Your comparisons between Revolution and other companies are unfair. I would not expect a company run by a handful of people, doing it in their spare time, to go about things in the same way as a large company with multiple paid staff on their books.Is it? I see Mike has already put you straight on that one and confirmed Revolution isn’t run as a side line hobby. Even if that was the case, Realtrack manage to produce multiple liveries of their products and I wasn’t aware that there is an army of people working for Charlie Petty?
Just to reconfirm (as I’ve said many times before,) I love the products Revolution have produced and my wallet has been considerably lighter as a result, in both 00 gauge and N gauge! I’m not attacking them, but merely trying to provide constructive feedback regarding some of the decisions that have been made, with a view to them maximising their success and potentially reinvesting that into further projects. I genuinely wish them the very best for the future and look forward to what else they have up their sleeves.
Merry Christmas everyone! 😁
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6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:
The issue here is that your view point is jaded because they aren't producing something you are interested in.I see no stand out marketing for either Accurascale than Dapol or Revolution Trains - the only one I occasionally see is Hornby. But then I don't read railway modelling magazines. Enough people saw the EOI as the whole project has gone into production. I don't really follow model railway news but I still managed to see the EOI and get registered for it. Maybe people wanted other liveries more and can't afford two or three units these days?
Accurascale aren't selling to the same market as Revolution. I am not interested in yet another Pannier tank, but I am interested in a 180. Not the same market.
Different companies have different thresholds on what they want to / can risk.
Stamping your feet looking for an answer that you won't accept anyway isn't going to help anyone, brings nothing to the discussion and is quite simply getting boring now. Perhaps I should take my protests to Asda for not producing some Red Leicester with black pepper cheese this year, nor did they last year. It clearly didn't sell that well the year before that, so they didn't get it manufactured again. Do I stand around and complain about it? No. I just accept it and buy some other cheese instead.EOI didn't meet the threshold of [producing that livery] being worth it for Revolution (at this time).
Sorry if this seems harsh. I am here for updates about the project, not moans about a specific livery not being produced.
Haha! I’m not sure who’s ’stamping their feet’ here?!
I don’t think you have understood the point I have been making. The 00 market is the same group of consumers whether you’re a modern or steam era modeller and every permutation in between. They don’t suddenly metamorphosise into a different species when purchasing Revolution products.
Accurascale are far from a predominantly steam manufacturer, so why you feel Accurascale sell to a different market, to Revolution is a different view, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. As a previous purchaser of Revolution products, there are many items that Accurascale produce that also appeal and complement the Revolution products produce or are planning to introduce. The fundamental difference between Revolution and most other manufacturers is that they other a range of liveries which cover the timeline of the products they’re producing, thereby maximising the return on their investment, by appealing to the widest possible audience. Similarly, Dapol, Bachmann, Heljan, Realtrack and even Hornby follow the same practice, so it must work, as they’re all still in business! I’ve fully accept that Revolution have no plans to produce the livery I would have a purchased a couple of units in, but I just think some of their business decisions are a little strange, but it’s their business and that decision is entirely their perrogrative.
Interestingly, no one has countered my argument that if the missing First livery can be viable in N scale, then why it wouldn’t be in 00 scale? Even Ben has said ‘N gauge items can sell at least as well as 00 scale’ which kind of contradicts the decision that has been made.
Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, I hope that clarifies the point, I’ve been trying to make and here’s to a ‘spitting your dummy out’ - free 2024! 😆
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On 06/12/2023 at 10:48, Sir TophamHatt said:
Why didn't it mean people weren't interersted?
Because you could only be ‘not interested’ if you actually saw the ‘expressions of interest’ in the first place! Revolution seem to have a very low profile compared to for example, Accurascale. At the end of the day, all manufacturers are selling their products to the same 00 gauge market, but I can’t imagine Accurascale only offering 2 liveries on an 00 DMU (if they ever produce one,) and Dapol are able to offer 7 liveries on an arguably more restricted EMU prototype, than the 175 and 180 DMU’s? So why is the 00 market so different to Revolution’s eyes?
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6 hours ago, charliepetty said:
These have been postponed for the coming year. Charlie.
Hi Charlie,
that’s sounds a bit like a cryptic crossword! Can you expand on what you mean please?
Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system
in Hornby
Posted
Apologies if this issue has already been answered within this thread (I’ve had a quick look and can’t see anything).
Ive just fitted 4 HM7000 21 pin sound decoders in 4 Hornby HST power cars and although they seem to work fine on Hornby’s Bluetooth app, when trying to read them on my Z21, I just get the following options;
1. absolutely nothing - the program address screen just times out and nothing is shown.
2. a decoder read of 3, but then when trying to run as loco 3 in the control Panel, the loco doesn’t respond to any functions (ie after switching on functions F0 & F1 the lights and sound on the loco don’t respond at all?
3. an error message saying CV read error?
I’ve tried switching the track wires on the Z21 from Program track to Main Track, but this makes no difference?
Im baffled as I fitted some other HM7000 21 pin sound decoders last month and they worked fine on the Z21!
If anyone has any ideas how to resolve this, they would be very gratefully received!
Thanks in advance, Nick.