[Track design for Engine Sheds and Inspection Pits]

Thanks to all who replied to this query.  I now feel I understand a lot more about inspection pit p-way.

 

The picture with the 66XX allowed me to judge 3.5 chairs between the middle and rear drivers (8ft) giving 2ft3" or 9mm between chairs.

 

I have also found some pictures of the actual depot pits allowing me to identify the components from the pictures and info posted here.

 

It all looks like bullhead rails with bridge rail chairs with the keys on the outside (like normal).  Looking at the C&L finescale website, I need the GWR 2 diagonal bolt L1 chairs - but I can't find anyone who does these on their own? Any ideas as I will need about 1,000 of them!

 

Thanks again

 

Will

[Track design for Engine Sheds and Inspection Pits]

Hi all,

 

I need to build a GWR engine shed with inspection pits both inside and outside the shed.

 

The original part of the shed was built in 1908 so I'm assuming bullhead rail. 

 

An extension of two additional roads was added in 1943 - would this still be bullhead or would flat bottomed rail be more likely here?

 

For the bullhead rail pits, would the chairs be rotated round so the keys are more accessible?

 

Also what would be the typical chair to chair distance?

 

Many thanks

 

Will

[Single-Lever Crossover suitability? (Victorian/Edwardian period)]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

I agree with Grosvenor that 1 & 7 would be worked as a crossover together.

 

My only other suggestion is that I would swap the normal direction of 4 & 5 crossovers (and possibly 8).

 

Many signalboxes were rated according to the number of lever moves for a typical shift.  The frames were often designed to minimise lever pulls and thus signaller pay. Levers are also returned into the frame after each movement.

 

Will

[Help with signalling into this junction]

There are a couple of things I would add to the signalling mix:

 

1) Junction Indicators would be very unlikely to be 'feathers' due to the low speeds and routes into terminal platforms.  The terminal platform starters would definitely not be 'feathers'.  Standard Indicators showing all main routes as a letter/platform number would likely be provided.

 

2) The junction signal on approach to the two sidings will ideally need to have a signalling overlap clear of the points - ideally 180m (1.2m, 4ft) but could be compressed.  If the overlap goes through the points, you can't run a train into/out of the sidings when another train is approaching on the Main line.

 

As has already been said - no green leading to buffers following Moorgate.  One thing seldom modelled is a three aspect signal head with green blanked-out.

 

Regards

 

Will

[55 Foot Turntable - Allowed Locomotives]

Thanks for your replies, Michael, Osborne's Models and LMS2968.

 

If I add the flanges, it is still less than 54ft so will fit (just) without an extender piece.  If I assume the Manor uses the turntable, it increases the number of light engine moves so I will probably do that.

 

Thanks again

Will

 

[55 Foot Turntable - Allowed Locomotives]

Hi all,

I'm planning a layout based on a real location where there was a turntable at the next station that was 55ft diameter.

I know that the larger GWR 4-6-0s and 2-8-0s would be too long but at 7800 Manor at just over 52ft would fit but would be very close to the edge.

Is there a maximum Engine length that would be allowed on the turntable?

Thanks

Will

[UK Milk Tank Loading confirmation, was it top or bottom?]

On 21/12/2023 at 21:49, Karhedron said:

...

For more information as well as much better photos, please keep an eye out for my book on railway milk traffic which should be coming out in the Spring courtesy of Wild Swan.

What's the title etc? And the author (I assume it won't be by Karhedron). 

Thanks

Will

[Articulated Restaurant Cars loaned to the LNER?]

The only Articulated GW set I found was the H30/31/32 combo.

 

The outer coaches had 42 first class (H30) and 56 third class seats (H32) with the kitchen car between.

 

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

57 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

No.

Thanks - added to the list above

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

Thanks to the new number from Hal, and adding detail from my books, we get the following. 

 

W8

Lot L758 26xxx + 26392-438 (100)

26001 (Atkins 567 and Russell GW Wagons Appendix 211) roof ribs visible and slots in end when built

L859 26xxx + 26439-50 (50)

No pictures found yet

L879 103001-300 (300)

103141 (Russell GW Wagons 48) &

103168 (Russell GW Wagons Appendix 213) both plain roofs and slots in ends removed in later years 

L961 106301-450 (150)

No pictures found yet

L980 106551-600 (100)

106564 plain roof and no slots in the ends in later years

 

W10

L922  106001-300 (300 until 1939 then 170) - 106026 (Atkins 568) plain roofs, no end slots when built.

Unfortunately, the 130 converted to Y10 were seemingly random within the number series but Atkins has five Y10 numbers to avoid if you're modelling post 1939.

 

Thanks

 

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

43 minutes ago, 41516 said:

Don't forget the later types were also wider than W1/5 too

I hadn't spotted that and I've converted a whole lot of W1/5 ends.

I might have to forget that I know they're too narrow and hope the cows don't complain!

Thanks

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Probably explains why there are nowhere near as many images knocking about as you usually get!

 

The acquired wagons of British Railways vol 4 shows W8 W68442 in the 50s with no ribs. Rest of my wagon specific books haven't got anything.

 

I've just had a look in Atkins Beard etc and it shows the W8s all being in the 26xxx, 103xxx and 106xxx ranges.  68442 appears in the earlier W5 list. I haven't got the book you mentioned, is the roof an earlier flatter profile or like a regular Mink?

Thanks

 

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

Thanks Hal, Miss P and Jason for your replies.

 

I've had another look through my books and it looks like:

 

W8

Lot L758 (100) - roof ribs visible and slots in end when built

L859 (50) - ?

L879 (300) - plain roofs in later photos and slots in ends removed

L961 (150) - ?

L980 (100) - ?

 

W10

L922 (300 until 1939 then 170) - plain roofs

 

Unfortunately, only one W8 survives and I think only the framing skeleton exists.

 

No W10s were preserved but 130 were converted to Y10s and some bodies still exist - with plain roofs.

 

Thanks

 

Will

[GWR Cattle Truck Roofs]

Hi all,

 

I've just managed to get hold of a number of Cooper Craft W1/5 cattle truck kits.  I'm planning to alter the ends, buffers and underframes to make some later W8 and W10 types.

 

Does anyone know what the roofs were like? Did they have the metal bands or were they plain?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Will

[Signalling a move from Fast to Slow lines]

22 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

Which is exactly what I was taught but I know of at least one exception.

 

Unless it's been altered in the last couple of years, signal ME137 approaching High Wycombe displays a flashing single yellow when ME139 is showing a yellow main aspect and position 1 route indicator to take you into the bay platform.  Always caused a comment from drivers.

 

Mike,

 

What I should have said is that we're not allowed to do that for a new design.  There are lots of weird and wonderful arrangements that were put in at different times and regional variations.

 

I also should have said that a junction signal can have different junction signalling methods on different routes.

Eg.

MAR with a standard indicator to a bay and MAY-FA with a feather to a different through line.

 

Will

[Signalling a move from Fast to Slow lines]

There are five forms of modern junction signalling. In order of speed (slowest first)

 

1. MAR (Main aspect Approach released from Red)

4 aspect sequence is:

G - YY - Y - R stepping up to Y/YY/G with feather/standard indicator as appropriate.

 

2. MAY (Main aspect Approach released from Yellow)

Sequence is G - G - YY - Y with route indicator 

This is rare / non-existent on the Western where I work

 

3. MAY-FA (Main aspect Approach released from Yellow with Flashing Aspects)

Sequence is G - FYY - FY - Y with route indicator stepping up appropriate on Approach.

If the FYY  signal displays a route indication for a previous junction then the Sequence would be G - YY+route indication - FY - Y with route indication.

If the signal beyond the junction is at red then Colwich controls are generally implemented- the junction signalling is restricted down to MAR.

Flashing aspects and/or feathers are not permitted into bay lines. 

 

4. MAY-SD (Main aspects Approach released from Yellow with Splitting Distant)

Aspect Sequence is pretty complex with double headed signal(s) approaching the junction.

 

5. MAF (Main Aspect Free) no Approach control where divergent line is within 10mph of main line.

 

Hope this helps a bit!

 

Will (signal design engineer by trade)

[GWR 3 plank wagons appreciation thread]

1 hour ago, drduncan said:

And the round ended number looks like ?1534.

D

Early 3 plankers seem to be mostly listed in the 3xxxx, 4xxxx and 1xxxx ranges.

I would guess 31534 as:

1) listed in Atkins Beard etc as a 3 plank from lot L211

2) looks like a rounded top number

 

This number is later used by one of the final O11s by 1919.

 

Will

[What do Theatre Boxes display?]

If you're thinking of making a GWR route indicator, they were capable of showing four routes in real life (eg Cheltenham Malvern Road West SB).

 

Wizard Models do a working 4mm version as part of item S0015 - but only for two indications. You might be able to use the two lots of parts to get the four you need but it would be very fiddly.

 

Good luck if you try it!

 

Will

[What do Theatre Boxes display?]

Many mechanical signal boxes had multiple home signals with one distant signal at breaking distance from the first home signal for each approach.

 

If the calculated distant signal position was just beyond the previous box's last signal, then a post with a home and distant would be provided - operated by separate signallers and "slotted" to prevent the distant showing clear when the home is at danger. In that situation, the distant signal will clear when the home signal is cleared.

 

If the distant position is on approach to the previous box's last signal then multiple distants would be provided.

 

Multiple distants can be provided on the same signal as a splitting distant but that is a totally different scenario not applicable to your terminus.

 

Michael Hodgeson is right that any distant is likely to be offstage.

 

Will

[GWR 10t Loco Wagon in BR (W) Grey livery]

18 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

GWR 10T coal wagons were built for loco coal traffic to small sheds with just one or two locos. The OP suggests N19, and it does look like a round corner type, which would be consistent with that. It's difficult to say more without seeing more of the wagon. GW Loco Dept wagons were usually black, as far as I know. It's definitely not a traffic coal wagon, as the GW didn't have any that size. 

The wagon number is listed under diagram N13 in the GW wagons book by Atkins, Beard etc.  If it is an N13 then it is over 40 years old in the OP's photo.

As for the colour of GW loco coal wagons - some say dark grey and some say black.

Will

[Western Region Breakdown Crane Train Formations]

36 minutes ago, craneman said:

I have never yet seen any photos of the Ruscombe incident that have shown the support vehicles for the breakdown train (other than the jib runner), only those used for carrying debris. I think that the Hydra in your photos is the same diagram as the one converted for the tackle wagon, but obviously lacks the conversion.

 

 

The wagon in the photo with most of a hopper wagon on is GWR no 42270. It is a diagram G13 wagon with earlier style curved frames.

The G19 has frames with straight edges.

Will

[Real time train movements]

As for how they are created, they are used by the timetable planners - both in Network Rail and in the Train operating companies. They are shown in Working Timetables (WTTs) and in the train running systems. The signallers' information displays show them in a similar way to the Internet information.

 

Will

[Real time train movements]

The headcode consists of three parts:

 

First digit is train class

1 express passenger

2 ordinary passenger 

4, 6, 7 & 8 are freight

5 in empty stock

 

Second is a letter for destination

E to Eastern region

V to Western

S to Scotland

M to Midland

O to Southern

Other letters used for within a region.

 

Third and fourth are unique identifiers to differentiate different trains and routings

 

Hope this helps

 

Will

 

[4 wheeler Coach identification please]

It's got to be an 'S' diagram coach.  The distinctive door top shape suggests diagrams S16 to S21. It can't be S16 (4 compartment) or S20/21 (wrong roof section) which leaves S17-19.

 

The only number includes 131 is S18 number 1313.

 

Will

[Smallish sub-shed near bigger shed]

What about Cheltenham Malvern Road?

 

Two road 180ft shed pre WWII with incline to a small coal stage but no turntable.

It was a Sub shed to Gloucester GW.

 

Will