WillCav

Thanks for everyone's input on this. Going back to something Mike the Stationmaster said, and looking at the plans for the Down direction. The acceptance point 440yds beyond Malvern Rd West's home (2) is beyond the section signal (3) - somewhere in the absolute block to Landsdown Jn I assume. For a down train to be accepted from M Rd East to M. Rd west, would M Rd West have to get prior line clear from Lansdown Jn? Will

There's another East 2 on the wrong side of the road 530 yards in rear of East 3, but still seems too short for braking distance unless the speed crossing Landsdown Junction is low approaching. I've never looked at modelling a real location before - in some ways it is more interesting, but time passing has, I fear, made some questions impossible to answer. Will

Following 5BarVT's suggestions on how to backdate alterations to bring the diesel fuelling line into use, I have done a mock up of what the signalling could have been in 1948. I have swapped what Paul suggested for 32 and 34 as it puts the UM dets next to the UM signals. I've also made the exit from the yard and loco sidings the same signal with hand points beyond - it's difficult to see but I think this matches the earlier layout from photos. It also allows 19 to be used on 17 bracket rather than selecting both signals from 17 lever. Have I made any glaring errors? Unfortunately I don't think it will ever be known for sure but it would be nice to model something that could have been. I'm planning to model between the bridges - which is why I've added some detail from Malvern Road East box. I've shown the 1960s track circuits - would they have been put in when the layout was changed in 1908 or would they have gone in later? What types would they be - and would they have location cases hidden somewhere nearby? Thanks Will Edit... just noticed that I'd assumed that the UM slotted distant by MR west box has a note to say to St James but it probably applies to both routes?

Thanks Paul - loads to think about here! Firstly, the spur by the box is not very long - 3 car max. The one on the down side is about 6 car. I can't find any use for either them in 1948 timetable. I also couldn't find any terminating trains. Most photos show them unoccupied or with empty coaches in them. The block signal sub could have uses as S, C or W - strangely, the SRS diagram doesn't show a B on the post. I like your idea on what the signalling was before. It would explain the different treatment of the detonators in 1960. Looking at earlier photos, 14 signal seems to be closer to the exit (by points that are later 19 pts) and 18x2 and 19 traps are not visible. I'm thinking one trap point beyond 19 pts would be simpler with the earlier arrangement. I'll have to work up a locking sketch of a what might have been 1948 scenario to ensure I have the levers painted correctly. Thanks again Will

I'm afraid I've got more questions on the arrangements at Malvern Road. I've found a 1932 photo from the west end and the junction signal looked a bit different to the 1960s arrangement in the SRS diagram. The right hand doll is main line home and MR east distant slotted (not yellow at this date). The middle doll must be for the Goods Running Loop. Could the left doll be for all other routes? Why no white band? (In the 1960s version of this signal, left and centre dolls are combined with one arm and a 4 way mechanical route indicator) Thanks Will

Thanks for the added info Stationmaster. My error was that all the NX panels I have visited happened to be London on right. I have corrected my error. I'll be more careful making generalisations next time. Will

For the Western NX panels that I have visited, and later workstations, to London Paddington is generally on the right - giving the panels a rough north up orientation. This does not apply to all panels though. Western also shows signalling plans that way around for these areas even though in other regions, low mileage is shown on the left. For older mechanical boxes, the signal box diagram (which often has some indications like track circuits built in) is based on where the frame faces. If the frame faces North then in my experience, North is at the top of the diagram. This is still the case when the frame is at the back of the box. I.e. the first distant signal on the left of the frame is often lever 1 - and this signal is to the left when you face the frame. Will

Many thanks 5barVT and Stationmaster. Rechecking the SRS diagrams: Down platform shows a C (call on) by the sub arm, which is required for the St. James to Honeybourne and vice-versa to run round. Up platform has sub arm on approach, if it is a Warner, it would allow an Up passenger train to get into the platform whilst the east end junction is in use? If so, that would help with capacity there. Looking in the service timetable for 1948, no platform sharing is required, and passenger run round only in the Down. Thanks Will

Stephen, It does help - thanks. There are shunt signals that could lead into the platforms wrong direction, but they may just route to sidings before the platforms. I think I need to see if SRS have any locking charts for me to know for sure what was possible. Thanks again Will

Thanks for the reply, Grosvenor. I was worried about copyright - I'll try to explain it better until I get a diagram drawn The two platform lines are signalled with main routes and call on routes in the normal direction. The Down line also has turn back signals to allow reversals. I think these are signalled as absolute block and assume that the track circuit is proved occupied if a call on route is used. The third line is a goods running loop and is bidirectionally signalled. There are interlocking levers on each box associated with that line and it is track circuited. I assume the opposite box has to accept a train by reversing the lever which then locks out their routes into that line. Thanks Will

Hi all, I am researching Cheltenham Spa Malvern Road as a location for a layout. I have bought the Signalling plans (locking sketches) and have a few queries. There are two boxes with three running lines and some sidings between them. The three running lines are all track circuited in the fringe between boxes. Would those lines operate all with Absolute or Permissive block? I want to try and model the block shelf with the right 'stuff'. I'm only modelling MR west SB as the East SB is off stage. Also, if a train is shunting to the goods sidings via the West end headshunt, would it have to be behind the shunt, or could it just be behind the points that need to move? There's no track circuit there, and the signaller could check out the window that the train is clear of the points that need to move. Many thanks in advance Will (whose day job involves modern signals but needs help with semaphore)

There were five diagrams of bogie loco coal wagons: N1 with top doors N11 with top doors N14 Cambrian kit option N15 Cambrian kit option N17 Taller doors than the Cambrian kit There were only 27 built total - 26 in use after 1915. All 6 of the N11 type were used for the Torquay gas works traffic (not sure if for all their lives). The ones used for loco coal would have been a drop in the ocean compared to about 3000 10-12T and 2800 20T wagons. Will

Thanks Dibber25. That's really useful information - I'll probably omit them from my model. Will

Hi all, I am planning to build a layout based on Cheltenham Spa Malvern Road. The station was opened in 1908 and closed in 1966. I have found some differences in photographs of the island platform buildings. Early pictures show vertical lines on the brickwork, whereas later ones have smooth brickwork. I have a couple of questions: 1) What are these lines - I wondered if they were some sort of rails for mounting posters and timetables etc on the walls? 2) When were they removed? I've looked at other station buildings and can't see any evidence of it on any current buildings - or even in books. http://www.archive-images.co.uk/gallery/Archive-Images-of-Gloucestershire-Railways/image/119/Cheltenham_Malvern_Road_Railway_Station_c1908 shows some - under the 'gentlemen' toilet sign on the left Now in the 1960's - no vertical lines https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=164818&search=31808 Any ideas? Thanks Will

The other problem with signals just past the exit is that it takes a few seconds for the driver's eyes to adjust to the increased light levels when exiting the tunnel.

Thanks Stationmaster, Lots of useful info - I don't think the reversal troubles the West signaller if done in the bay? I didn't think of the station being closed - that seems like a likely reason. Seeing as my scenic break is going to be the Malvern road bridge, we might only see the nose of a 14xx during that move! Are engine diagrams available anywhere for me to research further? There seems to be a only a few light engine moves shown in the STT - I'll need to send a few off shed to St James in the morning and back in the evening. Will

Thanks for that really informative reply Johnster. The reversal part is only Malvern Road to st James - about a mile ish. If the autocoach is starting at at James with the loco at the front, the driver could be in the autocoach cab ready and the fireman drives the 1st mile? I can't understand why it doesn't just continue to Malvern Road to reverse - less than 200m further. How do you find out what is rostered on a service? Thanks Will

Hi all, I've been researching the Working Timetable for Cheltenham Malvern Road 1948 and there are a number of trains reversing in their journeys and I've got a few questions. 1) Autotrains St James to Honeybourne and vice-versa usually reverse in the bay but some reverse at Malvern Road East Jn - would the driver change ends on the ballast or would they propel to/from St James? 2) Class B passenger St James to Honeybourne and vice-versa - would that be able to run round in 4 minutes available? Would that be a tank engine or tender? Any suggestion on class? 3) One Goods train reverses at Malvern Road and St James then continues west - I assume it runs round. Would it have 2 toads? Again tender / tank / any idea of class? Thanks in advance Will

Can you see the castle used recently for "I'm a celebrity... " from Abegele and Persarn station? Will

Most GWR stations from 1923 were... I'll get my coat Joking aside - Windsor & Eton both stations can check if the Queen is in residence Will

If you look on at later maps, or in the E Lyons engine shed book, the shed extension fits in the gap south of the two goods lines. The weird thing is that the lines between the station and the coal stage seem to change from 3 to 4 at some stage. Thanks all for your input on this location. I've been looking at timetables etc and it looks like quite a busy station. Will

There is no goods shed unfortunately and all photos seem to only be opens in the goods sidings - but I can have the pickup goods with more interesting wagons going onward to St James. In 1947, one of the diesel railcars was shedded there - I'll also need to find out how they were fuelled (but that's off topic for this thread). It must be a rare GW shed - it has no panniers based there in 1947. Thanks for all the assistance everyone Will

@Compound2632 I thinking about Cheltenham Malvern Road about 1947-8. 16 locos + 1 railcar based there It's 31 chains between two overbridges, with a depot, 3 platform station and some goods. It's asking to be modelled. Thanks Will

Hi all, I'm thinking of building a modest engine shed with coal stage as part of a layout (we've all got too many locos haven't we). The shed I'm looking at would need to receive up to 100tons of coal per day. How were Loco coal wagons sent to the depots? Did it get added to regular goods working or was it in specific loco coal trains (perhaps dropping off wagons to each shed on a route). Looking at photos, it looks like both 10ton and 20ton wagons were used in the same locations. Where were the 40ton bogie wagons used? Were a few of the wagons used for ash when empty - where did the ash go? Sorry for loads of questions - happy to read up myself if people can recommend books etc. Thanks Will

Thanks for that info - I should have known not to trust Cooper Craft - the brake gear isn't great on their 4mm GW wagons. Does that mean that no 3 plank wagons ever had DC brakes? The last ones built (2 × O35) were Morton braked. Thanks Will