Buckjumper

I think we've all had one or more of those, Phil, but you've done a smashing job with the rods, and now have a rolling chassis with no tight spots, which is often more than half the battle. Keep going and I'll keep reading :icon_wink:

You are going to have to be less dismissive of your talent, Mikkel; you've got the knack of composing an evocative scene, and I reckon The Bay looks fantastic. Yes, carefully composed cameos are very effective without figures. The suggestion of human activity is all that's needed to bring a scene to life.

Ah, now that looks the biz!

Always welcome to use the pillar drill here JB.

I refer you to my first comment near the top

Sorry John - I can knock this one on the head. GAs and tank top photos of the Midland 3Fs - the 2441 class - show the condenser pipe entered the tanks bang in line with the centre of the dome - i.e. roughly where the water fillers went on Jinty's. The 2441s had their water fillers where the plate is on Adrian's tank top - by the firebox/boiler join. There is a vertical condensate venting pipe directly behind the bracket on the tank top, but that is directly in line with the back of the dome, and not near the mysterious cover plate (on either Adrian's or the Triang Jinty). BTW, the difference in the water fillers above is due to the condensing engines having special steam-tight lids, whereas the normally aspirated members of the class had bog standard lids. 2444 is probably the one I'll be building: Copyright Public Domain. FWIW you can also see the position of the sand filler and water filler on this non-condensing 2441 tank top here.

Blimey! Synchronicity! :icon_wow:

I see that as a good thing, and I think, judging by his comments elsewhere, that Andy's keen for people to take the initiative and develop the blogs in their own way. I went down that avenue too, until I discovered the tank top sand fillers were situated much further back towards the cab - about halfway down the side of the firebox. The other factor mitigating against this possibility is the size of the plate itself; the diameter of the sandbox fillers were a little less than the condensing pipes on the 2441 class - which were about 7??", and they appear to be offset closer to the firebox than the tank side, whereas this cover plate is a little less than the full width of the tank top (which was about 1' 8" or thereabouts, making the cover plate about 1' 3" - about the size of a water filler). I can't find the comment at present, but I'm sure someone mentioned these plates were present on an old 4mm model, so I dredged the depths of the workshop and pulled out dad's old Triang 3F no.47606 from the late 50s....bingo, there's the cover plate, albeit a little further forward. To save time photographing it, here's a link to one on ebay which you can enlarge (sorry, but it's not a future-proof link) and see for yourself. Several possibilities therefore spring to mind at present, and all are entirely theoretical without factual basis, but the two which I keep coming back to are these: 1. Jim had an old Triang Jinty by his desk when he was drawing the artwork. 2. Initially the Jinties were to have tank fillers in the same place as the 2441 class. Hunslet fabricated the tops and cut the holes, but revised instructions from Fowler during the build meant that the fillers were moved forward and patch plates fitted. It would be interesting to see tank tops of the Vulcan and North British builds of these first 50 locos too. Whatever the answer, photographic evidence seen to date appears to confirm the cover plate is not required for subsequent builds with the keyhole sandbox filler...unfortunately that doesn't help you!

Dragging over one of the comments from the old thread: I know a little of the 2441 class as I've been researching them for a build. Their condensing pipe was only about 7??" diameter, and entered the tank top where the Jinty tank fillers are, so it's not that. However, I think John was on the right track because the position of the condensing pipes meant the 2441 fillers were situated further back on the tank tops, and the S Class GA 98-4431 confirms they were precisely where those patches are located on your Jinty - by the boiler/firebox join. All kinds of suppositions arise from this, but I'm afraid my lack of knowledge of the Jinties means they remain theoretical, and therefore not very helpful to you.

I have got to get my head around using a lathe again. It's been a very long time so I'd either need to find someone local who's prepared to instruct, or failing that a decent book. Now that I've dipped a toe or two into S Scale modelling (wheels castings sans tyres available for GER locos thanks to Trevor Nunn) I can't procrastinate for much longer. The wheels are looking great!

Martyn's solution is very good and simple for the front windows, but obviously you can't do that for the rear, though you could use the same principle and work through the cab doorway. However, in your post you've hinted you'd like to use glass, not plastic, and I suspect Kleer would destroy the unmistakable reflectivity of that material. The 14xx poses a particular problem so having racked the old noggin, I suspect this is what I'd do, faced with a similar situation. Cut all your glazing to size. Prime and paint the inside of the cab and add all the detail. With care you can then solder the cab roof on - you'll need to be be in and out like the clappers and use a solder which will quickly draw itself in with capillary action. I'd also be tempted to forego the usual phosphoric acid flux and use the water based safety flux in this situation. If you're quick you won't affect the paint on the inside. You might want to do a couple of test runs off-model to see how much time you've got, though your nose will tell you if you're lingering too long - the paint will smell before beginning to bubble and lift. Rinse away the flux using a hairy paintbrush through the door, dry, and fill the cab with cling film or kitchen towel, then prime and paint the rest of the model as usual. Coat the edge and face of the glass which fits into the half-etched recess with Zap Formula 560 canopy glue and use Martyn's bluetac & cocktail trick through the front window, and do the same through the doors for the rear windows. Leave the glue to dry for 30 mins to an hour before removing any excess on the glass with a chisel-shaped cocktail stick dipped in water and tweezers.I'd still be tempted to support the window with a cocktail stick from the rear while doing so.

Nick A tilt is another name for a tarpaulin. I suspect their use was no different from any other bow-ended or half-moon (nomenclature company dependent) tilt-covered wagon used by most mid-Victorian period railway companies (and later, as in the case of the LB&SCR), and saved having to build too many covered vans which were more expensive to construct. Adrian

All the various pipe runs add bags of character, so it's well worth the time taken to get them looking right. It can be a quandary whether to follow the prototype exactly; representing all the dents, dings and bent bits of pipework can sometimes give the impression that the builder's not competent. Sometimes a little bit of compromise goes a long way, and this is looking superb.

Mike Lanky Kits took over production of the Fourtrack L&Y kits - perhaps they also have the Aspinall and Hughes loco buffers too? Adrian

Have done the same with some turned Fourtrack buffers - the Scale Hardware bolts make such a difference. The sanding stick SH chuck in free with orders is rather useful for removing the cusp on fine etchings too.

Less is More - Marillion.

Pete Stamper at Agenoria sells a number of Manning Wardle types which might be of interest. You've built Nellie, so you'll find the Agenoria kitswell designed and very buildable. I turned 'Warwickshire' into 'Success' with a little extra work - the result of which can be seen here. Current project with #1 son is the Connoisseur Y6 - backdated to be a GER G15, the progress of which is here. The Furness brake van is excellent. :icon_thumbsup2:

Good question - in short I don't know. I'll find out.

Consider that idea nicked! What a gloriously simple solution. Nice work, by the way. :icon_thumbsup2:

to rupture his

the greedy bu wotsits

butterflies from chrysalis

Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Quite right Tim. OMiP: Camel - Echoes.

The West Mersea Branch - 1946 Essex in ScaleSeven by buckjumper original page on Old RMweb __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:59 pm Good to see I've drawn you out of the woodwork. I'd missed your earlier post until now - thanks to the link to your site, I'll keep an eye on it. Dave R wrote: Not sure if we could get away with one partly buried in the embankment allotments as the kit is only 1:48 scale; and the 830kg Amolite warhead caused a 600yd diameter blast zone in Lewisham which would wipe out most of the West Mersea station area! Perhaps we should exact that kind of damage on West Mersea - the track could then be relaid after running the plan through Templot.... __________________________________________ Comment posted by Pint of Adnams on Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:30 pm OgaugeJB wrote: Is Pint of Adnams on the regulars list yet ? JB. Hi Jonathan, As you can see the internet broadband pipe is now up and (mainly) running, and I'm getting back into the swing of things. I hope to make the November monthly meeting, all things being equal. BTW On reading your thread, I'm dismayed to note that you haven't built another 10 kits though - one for each week I've been in limbo . __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:34 pm Sorry to have let you down there pint, but I've had to do some real work for a bit. I'm trying to progress as far as possible with the K2 before the next meeting. It's going to start getting tricky soon! JB. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Dave R on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:53 pm buckjumper wrote: Dave R wrote: Not sure if we could get away with one partly buried in the embankment allotments as the kit is only 1:48 scale (not quite ScaleSeven); and the 830kg Amolite warhead caused a 600yd diameter blast zone in Lewisham which would wipe out most of the West Mersea station area! Perhaps we should exact that kind of damage on West Mersea - the track could then be relaid after running the plan through Templot.... But I've just spent 6 weeks drawing what's already there in preparation for the point rodding design... From my survey last September it was drawn in Templot; redrawn after October's meeting and seeing some of your photos above. The idea was to get the stretcher bar positions and enough track to indicate where the rodding runs could go; not to get a proper plan of the layout. Apart from the turnouts leading to the end loading docks on the West side I'm now fairly happy with the arrangement although there will be a few more measurements needed in November. Then a lever-numbering scheme had to be devised; this drawing was finished late last Sunday evening. Now all that's needed is to export the Templot plan into AutoCad and get the rodding runs positioned with equal push and pull; and then count up the bits required to give us a shopping list. My 3-lever ground frame on Lumpy Sidings took me 2 months to "rod up"; I'll leave it to the reader to calculate how long the 60 lever frame of West Mersea will take... If I can get some time at my PC at home tonight I'll get the files printed to a PDF and try to get it published here; but don't hold your collective breaths, SWMBO has got me lined up for a decorating project scheduled for completion before Xmas __________________________________________ Comment posted by martin_wynne on Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:09 pm Dave R wrote: Now all that's needed is to export the Templot plan into AutoCad and get the rodding runs positioned with equal push and pull Hi Dave, You could do the rodding directly in Templot using dummy "centre-line only" templates (geometry > track centre-lines only). This makes it much easier to create the rodding runs parallel to the tracks, especially if they are gently curved. You can still export to CAD to add the compensator and crank detail. regards, Martin. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Dave R on Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:01 pm martin_wynne wrote: Dave R wrote: Now all that's needed is to export the Templot plan into AutoCad and get the rodding runs positioned with equal push and pull You could do the rodding directly in Templot using dummy "centre-line only" templates (geometry > track centre-lines only). This makes it much easier to create the rodding runs parallel to the tracks, especially if they are gently curved. You can still export to CAD to add the compensator and crank detail. And I might be tempted to go that way if Templot's dxf export exported curves as curves rather than thousands of very short straights. Now, if I've got this forum thingy sussed, there should be a PDF file attached: West Mersea Signal Diagram pdf Page 1 assumes that only passenger lines had facing point locks and that the GER were fairly mean with their ground signals (I am assuming that you've read the previous 100+ posts and have studied Ade's photos meticulously so that you know where everything is or, more to the point, isn't because it hasn't been built yet!). Page 2 is a tabular description of of page 1 and will be expanded with the "shopping list" as the rodding design progresses. Page 3 is my survey (blue diamonds with a central cross show measured positions of stretcher bars) overlaid with a Templot approximation of the track -- it's an approximation because for this task that's all that was needed. Note that the numbering on this page is still v3 whereas the previous 2 are v4 so you'll have to use the {curly numbers} to cross-refer. Any queries I'll try and answer at lunchtimes from work; I've now got the hall, stairs and landing to rub down and paint before the new carpet is delivered... __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:31 pm The plan looks so much simpler when it is on paper compared to seeing it in the flesh as it were.. Good work there Dave, that's one heel of a job you were delegated JB. __________________________________________ Comment posted by Dave R on Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:08 pm OgaugeJB wrote: The plan looks so much simpler when it is on paper compared to seeing it in the flesh as it were. It all depends on your point of view (literally). Next time you're there duck-under to the far side of the layout and climb up onto the "plank and milk crate" working platform. The layout appears to be totally different from the increased height; the sort of view that a V1 might have had as it plummeted into the embankment? OgaugeJB wrote: Good work there Dave, that's one heel of a job you were delegated Peter doesn't delegate jobs; he volunteers people. So far (and I've only attended 6 meetings) I've been volunteered for (1) wagon building (he eventually wants 1500 of them to populate the full project; but only 150 in the short term); (2) point rodding design; and (3) producing casting patterns for crossing nose A chairs. I must learn how to say "no" to him; how do the rest of you manage? __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:12 pm I hide behind the sandwiches and cups of tea... Oh and pretend to be making loco kits too JB. _______________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:40 pm Dave R wrote: I must learn how to say "no" to him; how do the rest of you manage? Oh I waffle on about some obscure but mildly interesting nugget of information pertaining to GER practice then turn turn the conversation around to "Chuffs" which sends Pete off on one of his funny stories about Iain Rice when he worked in Pete's shop as a yoof. Thanks for the pdfs - very interesting. _____________________________________ Comment posted by Dave R on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:09 pm buckjumper wrote: Dave R wrote: I must learn how to say "no" to him; how do the rest of you manage? Oh I waffle on about some obscure but mildly interesting nugget of information pertaining to GER practice.. But I don't even need to be in Sudbury to get volunteered! A letter was attached to the last newsletter asking if I could Templot WM goods yard, loco shed, carriage sidings, junction, East Mersea, and all the intermediate stations along the branch up to and including Marks Tey. So please waffle away on the intricacies and history of GER track design as I don't actually have much clue as to what they did. For example: - Did the GER use CCL and CCR chairs on their check rails? Photos seem to show a short sharp curve at the check rail ends which might have been achieved between adjacent chairs; but does anybody have some clear evidence one way or the other? - When did interlaced turnouts get phased out? Do we need to include a few somewhere in the project? - Likewise wider timbers at rail joints and larger joint chairs? - Rail lengths? Sleeper spacings? - Rail weights? Does Peter need to get some 85 lb/yd rail drawn, and plastic mouldings for 85lb chairs (probably worn 85 lb/yd rail for the sidings etc, or even lighter rail depending on the history of the line). - One Templot .box file for the whole project (9?? miles to Marks Tey; that's over 350 metres of model) or one file per station? Peter will, of course, want it overlaid on an aerial photograph which has been distorted onto a 3D contour map like what Time Team do... __________________________________________ ??? posted on Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:28 pm Dave R wrote: But I don't even need to be in Sudbury to get volunteered! A letter was attached to the last newsletter asking if I could Templot WM goods yard, loco shed, carriage sidings, junction, East Mersea, and all the intermediate stations along the branch up to and including Marks Tey. So please waffle away on the intricacies and history of GER track design as I don't actually have much clue as to what they did. For example: - Did the GER use CCL and CCR chairs on their check rails? Photos seem to show a short sharp curve at the check rail ends which might have been achieved between adjacent chairs; but does anybody have some clear evidence one way or the other? Dunno; I shall enquire. - When did interlaced turnouts get phased out? Do we need to include a few somewhere in the project? I don't know if the GE used them post-War, if so it would have been the LNER which phased them out during the 20s. I don't remember having seen any, even in remote Company sidings post-1930s. However, I wonder if, for example, the gasworks had paid the GE to relay it's private sidings in the early 1900s, interlaced turnouts could remain in situ in that location. I'll dig a little to see if the GE was up for that sort of thing. Likewise wider timbers at rail joints and larger joint chairs? Yes, 12" instead of 10" timbers and special joint chairs were employed. These next questions have lots of answers, period and place dependent. Branch lines appear to have received second-hand rail, chairs and sleepers, taken from the main lines in the District. Rail lengths? In 1946 you would find only 45' and 60' sections on the running lines - the rail would be up in the 90lbs series. 90, 93 and 95lbs according to records of rail recovered from branch lines. Sleeper spacings? I've only got the GER 30' panel sleeper spacings which you can use in some of the less frequented sidings such as those in green in your pdf above, or possibly the carriage/cattle/end dock sidings: 13", 22", 26", 29", 6x30", 29", 26", 22", 13" Peter ought to have the info for the LNER 45' and 60' panels. Rail weights? Does Peter need to get some 85 lb/yd rail drawn, and plastic mouldings for 85lb chairs (probably worn 85 lb/yd rail for the sidings etc, or even lighter rail depending on the history of the line) Just for context, the Buntingford branch (not in any way comparable to WM) was found to have examples of 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 89, 90, 92 and 93lb rail at close of play in 1965. I know it had also been laid with 30' 87lb rail sections at the turn of the century. It may have missed out on hand-me-downGE mainline 95lb rail due to the War, but some 95lb was laid in 1939. BTW the 89, 92 and 93lbs rail above was BS laid post-1950, so out of period. I've got a GE 2-bolt chair from 1879 here that keeps my workshop door open in summer. IIRC that's for 85lb rail... One Templot .box file for the whole project (9??????‚?? miles to Marks Tey; that's over 350 metres of model) or one file per station? Peter will, of course, want it overlaid on an aerial photograph which has been distorted onto a 3D contour map like what Time Team do... ...and printed off and pasted on the hoardings across the road in time for the christmas party __________________________________________ Comment posted by glo41f on Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:51 pm Hi Adrian I live not a million miles from Sudbury, though not a S7 type we do have some in our local O scal group. I am about to embark on my own large (ish) 7mm line and have taken great interest in what you are doing with Peter. I have a small layout called West Mersea too which is postulated on an extension from Colchester Hythe (renamed Barrack Street) via Hythe Quay, Rowhedge, Abberton over the Strood on a junction split to East and West Mersea. We have an Act of Parliament too! The layouts were seen at Guildex some years ago. I would love the chance to see progress so far. Would this be possible please? Regards Martin Long __________________________________________ Comment posted by Dave R on Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:00 pm buckjumper wrote: Dave R wrote: One Templot .box file for the whole project (9?? miles to Marks Tey; that's over 350 metres of model) or one file per station? Peter will, of course, want it overlaid on an aerial photograph which has been distorted onto a 3D contour map like what Time Team do... ...and printed off and pasted on the hoardings across the road in time for the christmas party But not this year as I'm still on decorating duties until the carpet gets installed on 6th December which only leaves me a week or so thereafter during which I'm planning to sort out a rodding run or two. The weekend after next's meeting will have to do with prints of the PDFs which were attached above. As for the track; the required approach seems to be to write a history for each and every siding, turnout, length of rail, fishplate bolt etc (but only up until 1946, so it shouldn't be too onerous a task for you Ade ) so that the correct info can be entered into the Templot file for subsequent manufacture by John and Colin. I have investigated the "Time Team" virtual model idea previously. But as the highest points on Mersea Island are only 21m above sea level there aren't very many 10m contour lines available to describe the 3D shape. Even adding in the spot heights marked on the OS map doesn't help much. Anybody know a surveyor with a GPS system who fancies spending an afternoon walking around West Mersea for us? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:33 pm Hi Martin glo41f wrote: I would love the chance to see progress so far. Would this be possible please? Peter would be delighted to see you. Shall contact you off forum. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:41 pm Dave R wrote: As for the track; the required approach seems to be to write a history for each and every siding, turnout, length of rail, fishplate bolt etc (but only up until 1946, so it shouldn't be too onerous a task for you Ade ) Arf, arf! That's the Christmas Party taken up then. __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:15 am A few videos were taken from today's meeting of Peter's J69, Colin's J68, and my newly built K2. A very enjoyable day had by all I think, except I think I ate far too many sausages.. http://uk.youtube.co...stMerseaRailway Regards, JB. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:54 pm Sausages - ah - I missed those. Had half a cup of coffee and a scone though The K2/2 performed beautifully - I think everyone was quite rightly impressed __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:01 pm Cheers Adrian...! You never know, I might have 3 painted engines by next month... what are the chances eh ?? JB. __________________________________________ Comment posted by OgaugeJB on Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:34 pm Hello all, just thought I would update this thread a little as it hasn't had any postings for a while.. I popped down to WMHQ for one of the mid-month wednesday meets yesterday which turned out to be quite a good day. One of the other members was there doing a little work on the Pway, and my engines were used to check running through some of the turnouts, and the single slip which has apparently caused a few tears in the past, but now seems to be working pretty much perfectly... which is nice.. Whilst I was there Peter Hunt mentioned his woes of lacking a brake van for the goods workings, so I bought the slaters 20T LNER brake van kit, which seems to be very high quality with plenty of very nice cast handrails and footboard brackets. I also got the Slaters sprung 'W' irons, and the S7 wheels to suit. I could pop up a few pictures of the build if you would like...? Just a few shots of the engines... and a few videos.... (note the working reversing gear, and the westo pump errrrr, pumping, on Peter's J67 in the background) (this video didn't work as planned unfortunately..) Regards, JB. __________________________________________