pharrc20
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Posts posted by pharrc20
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Does anyone know about Scale Model Innovations products at all?
A Google search only seems to bring up results relating to Business Models and the only mention I can find of it on here is in the Middleton Central layout thread, where the layout builder mentions using some of their industrial window frames. In the February 2024 issue of Rail Express Modeller, Nigel Burkin mentions a resin printed kit that SMI have done for the Southern Region ZCV 'Dace' wagon in 4mm, which paired with spare underframe parts from the Peco/Parkside 'Grampus' kit, a complete wagon can be made.
Just wondered what other items they might produce.
Cheers Paul
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See you on all Friday afternoon with the Hazel Grove gang and Smethurst Junction. We are looking forward to the show. Cheers Paul
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3 hours ago, pharrc20 said:
Then why doesn't Ticket Factory state that on their page now instead of saying nothing apart from tickets on sale from Monday 3 April. Nothing about a 4pm cut-off last night.
Not stating anything just adds to the confusion for people who might wish to attend at the last minute but are put off by non-avalibility of online tickets. I will keep an eye and see if they come back on as per Chris Ms post 46 minutes ago.
Cheers Paul
Pleased to say that I have been able to purchase, download and print off two adult tickets now so thanks to whoever made this possible and the Ticket Factory bods too.
Cheers Paul
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1 hour ago, ELTEL said:
Although I have sympathy for people trying to purchase advance tickets for Warley and being frustrated when a technical issue or an operator issue causes the system to function incorrectly.
Why do people leave it till the last minute to book ?
I appreciate that circumstances may influence when you buy your ticket which I fully understand.
I hope you all get it sorted, and get your advance ticket before the official cut of time of 16:00 today.
Terry
Then why doesn't Ticket Factory state that on their page now instead of saying nothing apart from tickets on sale from Monday 3 April. Nothing about a 4pm cut-off last night.
Not stating anything just adds to the confusion for people who might wish to attend at the last minute but are put off by non-avalibility of online tickets. I will keep an eye and see if they come back on as per Chris Ms post 46 minutes ago.
Cheers Paul
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On 19/11/2023 at 15:20, Fordbank said:
Modern Monday - Less pollution and the end of coal
The Large Combustion Plant Directive in 2001by the European Union limited the harmful flue gas emissions from large power stations; in so doing, over the next two decades, this directive together with the urgent need to reduce the burning of fossil fuels to reduce CO2 emissions, lead in the UK to the closure of a higher proportion of coal fired power stations than in any other country in Europe. The impact on coal mining and coal transport by rail was dramatic.
By 2015 hundreds of coal hopper wagons, some built less than ten years earlier, were now stored and lying idle. One solution was to use the ex-coal wagons to meet the growing demand for stone aggregate.
On 26th September 2018, 66789 exits Dove Holes tunnel with a rake of GB Railfreight HYAs on the 4M11 Washwood Heath RMC to Peak Forest empties.
Photo shaunnei0 from Flickr.
‘Class 66 66789, British Rail 1948-1997, passes Peak Forest with the 4M11 empties from Washwood Heath. 26/09/2018.’
However the use of ex-coal hoppers for aggregate use had a significant drawback: stone aggregate is significantly more dense than coal which meant that the wagons could not run fully loaded. The widely adopted solution was to reduce the capacity of the wagons by reducing their length.
In early 2016 WH Davis of Shirebrook produced a prototype stone hopper wagon by removing the central discharge door from a GB Railfreight HYA. Over the next four years batches of HYAs were also converted for wagon leasors Touax, Nacco, and VTG. *
A similar process of modification was also undertaken on many of the ex-coal HTA hoppers owned by EWS.
‘An HYA shortened by WH Davis at its Langwith works passes Peak Forest on trial sandwiched amongst a rake of ex-coal hoppers. 22nd January 2017.’
*Many thanks to Paul Harrison for his excellent and highly informative book, ‘Wagons in the Peak District’ which has provided invaluable guidance about the wagons seen at Peak Forest.
Thanks for the mention Andy 😀
Cheers Paul
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5 hours ago, Fordbank said:
Now that's what I call a competition entry! Brilliant, Paul.
You have added a keystone to the foundation myth of Peak Forest Revived that 'Trains don't just run on Peak Forest revived - they are embedded in real history'.
Thanks.
No problemo Andy, glad to be of assistance. Sorry I didn't see you for longer yesterday at Hazel Grove show, hopefully I will see you again soon or at Manchester show in December when there exhibiting the club layout of course.
Cheers Paul
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On 20/10/2023 at 22:41, pharrc20 said:
I will get my thinking cap on hmm and consult my notes, pads and working timetables...
Cheers Paul
Ok, I have found Notepad 2 and had a look through and the earliest reference I can find to 6H66/6F67 is April 1996, when I noted down some rough timings in the pad between entries dated the 4th and the 20th. I can't remember where I got the information, maybe a friend, or the signalman at Hazel Grove see photo
Warrington Arpley d. 05.20
WBQ, Winwick Jn, NewtonlW, Man Vic, Romiley 07.19, New Mills South Jn, Chinley North Jn 07.32, Peak Forest South a. 07.44 d. 07.45, Buxton URS a. 08.06 rr d. 08.26, Briggs a. 08.49. For some reason I didn't get the return timings but went back the same route. This was because the Hartford curve was out of use at the time.
So, my first actual sighting of 6F67 was on 10th October at Marple station see photo
37211 was noted heading towards Romiley at 10.35 with 1 JIA 'Polybulk' and 3 PBAs in tow (the blue ones).
Fortuitously maybe, I was signing on at the time and was given Marple as the office to attend at 9am, so a quick sign-on and browse of the jobs meant I might just make it to the station to see the Dowlow. If the advisor didn't dawdle or there were loads of others trying to sign on damm!
A second visit to Marple station on the 24th and I just caught 37162 also in Dutch colours at 10.17 with the same formation of 4 wagons see photo
I do have photos of both trains, but will have to retrieve the photo album and prints from home to show you.
A later entry in the same notebook suggests that the route was altered to run via Chester with a run-round there, though I have not seen any evidence of that and timing remained via the Chat Moss and Romiley routing. It was a hard train to catch when it did eventually start running via Hazel Grove and often ran out and back very early.
You will also note the appearance of the Toton - Castleton rail parts train as well in my notes too.
Cheers Paul
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5 hours ago, Fordbank said:
Peak Forest Revived Competition Time
The Big 6F67 Quiz
1. When was the first Dowlow to Warrington trip working?
2. When was the last Dowlow to Warrington trip working ( or are they still going on)?
Rules (NB small print)
Some kind of evidence (preferably photographic )should be provided to support your entry.
Excluding entries based on toy trains may be excluded at the discretion of the judging panel.
Entry requirements: just about anyone,
Closing date: Some vague time in the future.
For starters another great photo from John Catterson:-
Peak Forest 8-7-87 37678+688 have hitched a ride round from Buxton on the front of the Dowlow trip hauled by 47145 to save a path and time on the single track line to Great Rocks Junction. The 37s will later work to Hope St. on the "Peakstone" rake of wagons.
I will get my thinking cap on hmm and consult my notes, pads and working timetables...
Cheers Paul
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On 30/09/2023 at 16:57, Fordbank said:
Grids at Peak Forest: Act 1
Twenty years before the second coming of the class 56 as heavyweight heritage shunters in 2019/20 (see two above posts), there was another minor flourish of 56s.
Peak Forest had never seen 56s in any great numbers when the class was first introduced between 1976 and 1984. The primary purpose of the 56s was as motive power for the delivery of coal to the power stations. Up in The Peak double headed class 20s were being replaced by class 37s which for the next decade would claim Buxton and Peak Forest as very much their own turf.
Nevertheless the privatisaion of British Rail saw a number of 56's transferred to the newly created Transrail and Loadhaul freight companies, and in 1995 the entire class transferred to EWS.
Wthdrawals commenced almost immediately: the last EWS class 56 lasting until March 2004.
The class 66s had taken over.
At Peak Forest the ex-Loadhaul and Transrail Grids had largely found employment replacing duties that had been carried out by class 37s, but their lack of vacuum brake equipment ensured that the iconic PHV workings from Tunstead to Northwhich remained the preserve of the 37s.
Peak Forest 29-7-99 56110 has just arrived at Peak Forest on 6H66 Warrington Arpley-Dowlow Enterprise trip with additional wagons that it will shunt into the Railside siding before going on to Dowlow with the Polybulks at the front of the train
Photo John Catterson
The daily Enterprise trip from Warrington Arpley to Dowlow was one working where the 56s began to muscle in on the 37s, but the 37s hung on and were still working the Polybulks to Warrington years after the last EWS 56 had been placed in store.
'56004 arrives at Peak Forest with the 6H67 from Warrington Arpley. The Grid will set back the additional wagons into the Railside Long Siding before taking the two Polybulks on to Dowlow. 30th September 1999'
'56004 propels the Roadstone JGA and the two container flats into Long Siding.'
'56004 leaves Peak Forest and heads towards Great Rocks on the way to dropping the empty limestone hoppers at Dowlow. 30th September 1999'
Gas Oil in TTA tanks for Buxton shed or latterly Peak Forest fueling point, were regularly added to the regular Enterprise trip from Warrington Arpley; so too were hopper wagons on repair. However container flats were a real rarity. Any ideas why they had been added to 6F67 on 27th July 1999?
Hi Andy, my guess would be the tripper was a convenient way of getting the repaired container flats back to one of the Greater Manchester waste terminals so either Northenden, Bredbury, Brindle Heath or Dean Lane by using the light engine move to the terminal to take the wagons back. The Binliners were still hauled by EWS at this time and a few years later moved over to Freightliner HeavyHaul.
Cheers Paul
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I recall seeing Blue Circle vee tanks in a mixed rake with the Metalair versions on an empty Widnes to Earle's Sidings working in Summer 1992, but thereafter, the vee tanks became scarce and I think all were stored due to the recession and downturn in the construction industry. Traffic to Northenden and Widnes went over to using the Metalair tanks only from then onwards.
Many of the 9nnn series APCM/Blue Circle Cement owned tanks were scrapped and most of the 107nn, 108nn and 109nn series tanks, apart from the hand brake lever fitted 109nn series were kept in store.
Around 2002, LaFarge started to bring vee tanks back into traffic from Hope and they initially tended to stay in fixed rakes i.e. all vee or all Metalair but eventually they were all pooled together. Any remaining stored Vee tanks, like those that ended up at Eastgate works, were I think eventually scrapped on site. I made a special visit there one summer Saturday just to get the numbers and photograph as many as I could before the bus was due back.
All based on my own observations and recordings at the time.
HTH Paul
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1 hour ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
Has anyone else ever looked at the line originating from Lydney Substation, Lydney, Gloucestershire? The line is SWE PL1, but the part leading to the substation is some kind of Blaw Knox design similar to PL4. Seems too short a line to have its own tower suite.
Hmm not seen those before with those little earthwire crossarms very unusual looking indeed.
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6 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
The weirdest tower I’ve seen in that regard is this Eve L3 (C864 type) D on Beauly–Blackhillock with crossarm floors:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/huntsman81/5389469131/in/album-72157625909636114/
No idea why.
My guess would be is it a river crossing tower and the crossarm floors permit safer working at height at this location?
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35 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
The PL numbers appear to be region-specific. NWE PL2 for example is a river crossing. SEE PL2 appears to be Bedford to Little Barford and uses CS-PL1 towers (original Milliken) instead of SS-PL1 (revised Milliken) — not proven, just hypothetical. It seems that SEE was otherwise split into PL1a (GEC/Pirelli) and PL1b (Callender’s), north and south of the Thames respectively. The Watshams design that seems to have originated as SEE PL7 was also used at least in part for EE PL3, MEE PL9, MEE PL12, MEE PL13, SWE PL10 and SWE PL11. (EE PL3 is presumably nothing to do with CE PL3 that was Blaw Knox, the precursor design it seems to CE PL4.)
“PL” for “Primary Line” appears to be true. There were also SL (“Secondary Line”?) contracts for 33 kV and 66 kV, which tend to be mistakenly called “pre-grid” towers.
Good point, there definitely seems to be a regional split on the tower designers/builders for the PL type tower designs.
Yep, I have seen SL mentioned as Secondary Line too for those lines operating at 33 kV and 66 kV too. Exactly where the phrase "pre-grid" appeared from I am not certain.
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On 04/08/2023 at 17:15, Daniel Beardsmore said:
It is rumoured here that the 10° towers in PL1 are known as S10S and D10S, and there is also mention of 5° angle towers S5S and S10S.
Does anyone have any idea where these terms originated? So far there seems to be no evidence that they were ever known like that. S10S and D10S implies separate tension (S10/D10) and suspension (S10S/D10S) towers. Both CS PL1 original Milliken (Central Scotland, also SEE PL1 and SEE PL2?) and SS PL1 revised Milliken (South Scotland and other contracts using Milliken towers) have only suspension 10° towers. (In CS notation they are called B1 single circuit and B2 double circuit, where A = 2°, B = 10°, C = 30°, D = 60°/terminal.)
There is still no sign of 5° angle towers as standard anywhere. Allegedly L3 has 5° towers in Scotland but no evidence for this or any other 5° type seems to have ever been presented.There is at least one PL1 single circuit tower near me that might explain what the S5S, if that is what it is, as the suspension insulators are angled to deviate the line. I haven't had an opportunity to go and have a closer look yet as it is off down a busy country lane, but if you look at this Google Earth location and the street imagery, you should see what I am on about.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7Am9T9Pqo4M2AbWD9
The next tower along south is also interesting too - would this be an Milliken S10 still? The next tower south appears to be a Milliken S30.
Cheers Paul
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Well I asked the question over on the FB group around whether L1, L5, L10, L11 ever existed and the response I got from two different members, one a former linesman but current industry and the other unknown. Both said that L1 was I quote-
"L1 couldn't be used for towers, the spec had already been written and referred to LV poles." from Alan.
and
"I found a J. L. Eve foundation drawing from 1954 for an L5 tower - appears to be 132kV. So they obviously were designed if not used. I think I may have read somewhere that an L1 was a wooden pole design?" from Alastair.
and
"Alistair Correct, L1 was LV wood poles." from Alan.
Alan the industry guy also said-
"PL series, they were Primary Line contracts in the early days of the grid and were numbered sequentially. I suspect that some designs were rejected in favour of others, that would explain the gaps. Then a few designs became 'adopted' in other areas, like the PL7 which became quite widespread. Eventually the PL16 became the favoured tower and still dominates our landscape today.
With fewer styles, manufacturing becomes easier, therefore cheaper. Maintenance stocks become smaller. Eventually it reaches a natural level."Cheers Paul
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21 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
For keyboard switches I did have to resolve to a nomenclature for unidentified types, based on observable and probable characteristics (housing colour, plunger colour, sense type and keycap mount). Some types will never be identified, ever, such is the scope of a 60-year-old global industry.
For pylons, since we know that there is an enhanced tower bible, this would seem pointless, but I am in a limbo state, especially with the are-they-aren’t-they Eve L3/L3(c), pending a response from SSE and/or NG.
However, since all my drawings are to scale, it’s not great trying to produce totally preliminary drawings, as I don’t know the heights. Eve 0.175 for example I scaled to L16, but they might be PL16 size (smaller). Eve 275 kV I scaled to L66 clearances, but from 25kv’s measurements they come out exactly to the lesser L3 clearances. (I have not amended the drawings yet, because if I get the ID, I need to not only rename the page, the image directory and all the images, but also change their metadata, so I’m stuck until I can get some kind of ID. If SSE and NG both let me down, I guess I’ll just change the ID to Eve 275: the angle and terminal towers are obviously Eve, so I guess the line towers must also be.)
275 kV and above appear to be largely resolved. Someone at PAS did claim that L1 exists, but naturally, no other details were offered, and with all the claims I read there, no-one ever questioned or wanted more details, or they never came. There are some strange gaps in the Ls (L1, L5, L10, L11) that are unexplained. There are also two or more parallel numbering schemes. L2 is also L36, alongside L16, L34, L55, L66 and L132, which are likely not all be the same scheme. Some types seem to be known only from this system. No evidence yet indicates if L55 and L16 differ: L55 might be like SSE400 DL, which is the higher altitude version of D, with the same design but stronger bars (no way to tell without comparing the component plans).
It’s the 132 kV types that are still riddled with mysteries.
Yes, I have often wondered why there appears to be no L1, L5, L10, L11 type towers popping up in what little official paperwork and evidence appears. I too wonder what this extended Tower Bible contains and would certainly be interested in seeing a copy or at least a list of the designs that are covered if possible please.
Cheers Paul
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42 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
The line running northeast from Spondon uses them.
The line from Chesterfield to Alfredon uses a variation. This variation has a pyramid peak very similar to PL1a, while the “Christmas Tree” type has a taller peak to which the double earthwire crossarms can be attached.
The dead giveaway versus PL1a is the equal clearance crossarms, in the manner of L2, the only British 132 kV tower type that I have seen with that characteristic.
Both examples are given as 132 kV.
Single earthwire only type:
The angle towers of the latter have a little pyramid peak in Eve L16 style.
Yep, they are odd towers indeed and seem to be local to that area as I don't recall seeing them anywhere else on my travels round on the railways.
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3 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
33 kV? 66 kV? 132 kV?
33 and 132 definitely not sure if any operating on 66 kV.
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2 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
Strange …
This is on the 33 kV WSC line from Willoughby Substation 132 kV:
https://openinframap.org/#15.66/52.825456/-1.070075
Hideous towers, but note that they are rated well above 33 kV. Possibly designed for 132 kV, but I am not sure — maybe a voltage in between 66 and 132.
(The photo was taken at Rempstone Steam Fair in 2018 but presently there is no line anywhere near Rempstone. Line WSC is something like 5 km east of Rempstone!)
I've seen these in passing, there is or was a line that runs up the Erewash valley and crosses the railway line between Clay Cross and Toton at least once maybe twice I can't remember now but possibly originated from Spondon power station. No idea of tower designation but only a handful of lines known to use this tower type in the North East Midlands. I've seen them referred to as Christmas tree towers in reference to the shape of the towers.
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1 hour ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
Hmm … It’s awkward trying to juggle multiple unrelated discussions in a single topic on an unrelated forum (not least when there is a whole forum dedicated to the same subject, left lying abandoned) but at the same time, there is just not enough life here to keep a forum going.
A few more notes on L3 from the PAS forum:
lesc, 14 Jul 2013: “The L3CDS (or L3 C DS if you must) is a development of the 1950's L3 design by Blaw Knox for the Beauly to Dounreay link (and / or the Tealing / Beauly link) for the then Scottish Hydro. Can run twin .175" or single 0.4". Other areas took it up and can now be seen all over the country. The D5° appears unique to Scotland, though.”
Guessing this is the D5:
This route is indeed Blaw Knox, so if he is correct, the extended middle crossarm design started with them.
lesc, 14 Nov 2012: “Probably L2C D although there's a Scottish variant it appears (Tealing mystery pylon) with LC coining L2C DS as the L3 with extended crossarms is correctly ideed as L3C DS (S = Scottish).”
The “Scottish” PL16 D2 is D2S (verified from at least two publicly-available sources), and one would imagine that the double earthwire type is likewise DD2S (no data on this). I didn’t realise that the S in L3 DS has the same meaning, although like everything written on the PAS forum this claim is uncorroborated. There is only proof that it is called DS.
yv47r, 7 May 2015: “The L3 with extended middle cross-arms came in 1956 rated at 275kV.”
Again uncorroborated. This claim clearly puts L3 DS as a pre-metric type, and if true, it would indicate that L3 DS has nothing to do with L3(c). L3(c) just happens to have made it the official 0° type, supplanting the D. (Kind of like how PL16 D2S became standard I guess.)
Nothing thus far would prove that the Eve type is L3. The original D has no earthwire peak at all (the later type did, just like L3 DS), and the medium-lower angle towers have asymmetric crossarms, unlike Blaw Knox L3 where the first asymmetric tower is the D60.
Sadly, Bishop’s Wood to Ludlow is 132 kV on 275 kV towers, so not National Grid’s remit, and thus not in their shapefiles. Perhaps whoever operates that line would be willing to offer some clues.
I particularly dislike relying on uncorroborated information, as any of it could be totally bogus. Unfortunately, the people who make all these claims never cite any sources (even if just in name) so there is no way to tell guesswork from mistaken recollections from reliable facts.
Bishop's Wood to Ludlow was until recently Western Power Distribution but they were acquired by National Grid not so long ago. So NG ought to know about them in some capacity or another now, but should know the Eve towers from those it operates in South Wales from Pyle.
The Ludlow line appears to have been built with 275kV in mind and strung accordingly with twin conductors. But up until a few years ago the suspension towers had short 132kV insulators fitted and the deviation towers had twin insulators but a line upgrade saw all that changed over to single conductors and insulators. Apart from providing a 275kV feed to the Ludlow area, I can't think of any other reason to build a 275kV capable line there.
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As regards Thornton the only thing I know is that the west to east running line 4ZR from Creyke Beck to Osbaldwick first around 1967 and 4VC line running from Norton down to Drax came along in 1971/72 and at Thornton dived under 4ZR using a diamond formation using a pair of low height towers around tower 4ZR 88. So when Thornton switching station was established, both lines were altered and diverted in so that all 8 circuits now 4 lines terminated there. So could the tower in question been the one before the split down to the low height towers?
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3 hours ago, 25kV said:
My long-dormant casual interest in pylons (sorry, Transmission Towers - my late brother-in-law is turning in his grave), which entirely originated from driving repeatedly past the Ribble Crossing age 4 with my grandparents, has apparently been reawakened by this thread. :)
I noticed that the apparently unusual Kintore-Beauly line is mentioned a few times (and that tower dimensions were unknown, according to the fascinating pages linked above); since I can almost see said line from my front window, and cycle under it almost daily, figured I might be helpful and go out with a tape measure.
Some photos and rough dimensions from today's bicycle adventure here: http://25kv.uk/B2K.html
Nice one, I believe the D towers are L3c and the corner or deviation towers are a JL Eve design of L3 hence the different look. Off top of me head only one maybe two lines that use this design of JL Eve deviation towers up in Scotland, and in England and Wales, there is the Bishop's Wood to Ludlow line that uses the same deviation towers with JL Eve suspension D towers. Plus part of a line near Pyle in South Wales too and one Terminal tower at Shrewsbury all from a JL Eve design, so I was told some time ago.
I did start to collate the Scottish line codes using Google Earth, but not every code shows up on the imagery of course, so any line codes are most welcome to fill in the gaps thanks.
Cheers Paul
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7 hours ago, L2's are great! said:
Talking of L6 oddities, you've also got this Blaw Knox variant too. I know one another exists at Connahs Quay too but it was a DT before the modifications took place
I believe this and or the pair in the background were the late Flash Bristow's favourite towers at Braintree
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17 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:
Conceivably. Maybe if we ever get to see this 85-90% complete tower bible, we might get some of the missing L6 types, like EC and the rest of Eve. Nothing near Thornton matches "LINE_SERIE" = 'L6' AND "TOWER_CONS" IN ('D40', 'D20', 'D15'). All I get for the following query around Thornton is one tower, a DT(0-40): "LINE_SERIE" = 'L6' AND "TOWER_CONS" NOT IN ('D', 'D30', 'D60', 'DT', 'DJT', 'ST').
That reminds me: what the devil is a DTV 45° (0-5° entry)? What is the 45° if it’s not the entry angle? This is just an L3 DT that has extended top crossarms for use with a sealing end platform or sealing end compound. National Grid call it DTU45, but “DTU” is an L2 type. (The L3 charts are a complete mess when it comes to terminal and junction towers.) L2 DT45 appears to be 45° entry angle, as the one near me does indeed have the line coming in like that. Eve L16 DT has no entry angle in the name but it happily allows wide entry angles.
Could the 45 relate to either the provision of additional cross arms, at 45 degrees to the main cross arms on either side of the towers making a T shape?. Or is it something to do with the extra 'spurs' for want of a better description that appear on the tips of the cross arms presumably added to allow more downlead options?
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Scale Model Innovations
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Posted
Ah cheers, never thought to look on Facefart!
Thanks Paul