Penrhos1920

When the GWR set up the diagram book they were in the middle of getting rid of 2nd class. They do appear to have assigned B diagrams for 2nd class coaches but it was not actually used. I assume that the assumption was that 2nd class compartments would have been downgraded to 3rd. I don't know for sure. Given the diagrams are in date order and the first C17 was built in 1897, it could have been as early as 1897. What is sure is that some were converted by 1907 when the diagram book was set up.

I meant to say that these drawings are based upon the offical photo of a C15 as built and 'standard' dimensions used for compartment sizes at that time. The corridor side drawing is fairly easy: 4 off 3rd class compartments at 5'6" width and 3 off 2nd class compartments at 6' width. Both end toilets are 3'10", the ends are 3 3/8" thick, compartment partions are 1 1/4" thick, and the total length is 56'. That makes the centgral toilets about 3'6" (2nd class) and 3'2" (3rd class) wide. When converted to a C16 with the central toilets removed the compartment would have been a generous 6'10" wide. So the door centres (which is what modellers are really interested in) are 2x 6'1 1/4" (ex 2nd class compartments), 2x 6' 4 3/4" (ex toilets) 3x '7 1/4" (3rd class compartments).

Did anyone save a copy of the list that used to be on the Cambrian models website? l already have a list of the ones I own, but I know there’s a lot I’ve yet to get!

Has there ever been a list published of 4mm PO wagon liveries that have been produced in either transfers or pre-printed sides? Ie a complete list of the catalogues of Cambrian, POWSides, Dragon etc

What size punch did you use? The cheapest sets only go up to 11mm which seems too small.

Have you got a photo of them? That description could describe several GWR coach buffers.

At the moment David Geen coach buffers aren’t available. Does anyone else make them with the correct square shank?

I've no specific information about the lighting of V5s. But oil lighting stopped being fitted to new builds around 1895, although all new stock for the London metropolitan services were fitted with gas from new in 1884. There was 'random' oil to Gas Flat Flame conversions from 1890. Stock was still being converted to Gas Flat Flame as late as 1900. However by 1903 the records show that conversions were to Incandescent Gas. The last conversion to Incandescent Gas was as late as 1923 despite there being no letup in conversions during the war.

Yes, eaves refers to the panel above the window and 7" is the height between the mouldings 5'6 refers to the green radius. The red radius is 48' as Miss Prism says, the ends of the red radius are 4' radius, centre is 3' above the coach floor and 1' 10.5" from the centre line. The text that accompanies this table in the MRC Annual does say that some dimensions had to be estimated. But 5'6 vs 8' is a big difference. In HMRS Journal Vol8/9 there is this sketch, Body VI is for E25: You will have much more sucess transferring dimensions if you select another Lewis Class CAE7N design. Diagram G41 is a much earlier design (CAA9N) and the sides are 3" shorter. Lewis Class CAE7N coaches were built over a 3 year period from 1887 to 1890. Fortunately for you the heights of all of the side components didn't change in 1890 when the Lewis Class changed to CEE7N and CEE7W, only the clerstory profile changed. Lewis Class CEE7N & CEE7W coaches were built until 1903 so there are many designs to choose from. The other side of the coach is a mirror image except the frosted window as you note. The bottom row of red squares is mounting blocks for the destination boards and are visible in the photos. On the other side there is ONE gas lamp on the main roof above the toilet. The end drawing is the view of the left hand end as shows this gas lamp.

All V5s were still as V5s in 1915. Some had specific branding, typically around your time, so these are not listed below. Lookouts were removed and conversion to V4 appears to have started after 1920, The first to be withdrawn was 15 in 1931. 1401, 1402, 1404-7, 1409-12, 1416 or 1419 1415 was branded 'Return to Oxford' at some time, probably around your time.

One thing to remember is that on something’s the GWR was extremely consistent. The second is that several people have been through GWR coach drawings (not the diagrams) and noted these dimensions and published them in HMRS journal and most recently in MRC annual 1981 by the legionary John Lewis. For this design the under the roof radius of the clerestory is 5’6. I’m not sure how many GWR coaches you’re planning, but when I started drawing GWR coaches many years ago the first thing I did was to create several drawings, one for each style, based upon these dimensions.

Any particular diagram Graham?

Correct. But They’ve been published in the modelling press over the years so I haven’t done that page yet, preferring to focus on coaches that haven’t been written about. You’ll see that there I are gaps on the brake thirds and clerestory pages. I’m currently working on a load of clerestory drawings which will hopefully be the next update. I can probably look out information if you’re interested in a particular one.

Withdrawal dates for many GWR 4 / 6 wheelers are available from my website, link below, certainly most of those that you are likely to model unless you do some serious scratch building. As a general rule, pre 1900 coaches lasted 40 years barring accidents.