Neil

The recent paired announcement by Dapol of a 14XX and 517 tank engines raises an intriguing opportunity to compare what motivates our purchases. Both locos are GWR 0-4-2 tank engines, both from the same manufacturer, at the same price and it wouldn't surprise me that there will be much about the mechanism that is shared. Now although all model railway spending really comes in the want rather than need category if we shift the definition a little I would hazard a guess that the 14XX would be the appropriate loco for most GWR/WR layouts and could be said to be the one that's needed by most. However it seems from the thread announcing the model that there's more excitement around the 517. It is to my eyes the more charming, prettier loco especially in either the lined green with red frames or the lined chocolate. It'll be interesting to see which sells the most or sells the fastest, whether need or want motivates the most. I suppose it'll also be interesting to see Dapol's reaction to this; if need comes out top then we might see more of the mainstream, with as wide a distribution in time and place as possible but if want tops the sales then maybe we will see more of the pretty and charming yet restricted in era or place.

"Early May 1960 and Yorkshire parsnip growers have responded to the emerging crisis in South Devon where it seems the local crop has failed. Several train loads of the cream coloured root vegetable have been run as specials down the East Coast Main Line to London to be tripped round to Western Region metals for forwarding to the stricken region. Here Heaton A3 'Manna' has backed onto the hastily assembled train and awaits the right away from Skeldergate yard in York. Housewives of Devon rejoice for relief is at hand."

Thanks for the reminder Alistair, I think this is the bit you're thinking of.

I've found some overall shots of the layout but they're mainly of the early stages of construction. I think it should be possible to piece together which bits go where from the later photos. Here goes ... The three boards before track was laid. With most of the track in position. With the all track in place including the sector plate fiddle yard. Finally with some of the buildings and mock ups in place.

Hello Reinhard, of course you can recreate the layout, I would be happy for you to do so. Somewhere I have an overall view of the layout. The dimensions including fiddle yard are 8' (2400mm) X 1'6" (460mm) but the width varies; this will be apparent once I find some overall views of the layout.

Hello Reinhard, thank you. I think that the problem with the photos is that they were uploaded before the forum had technical problems and many photos were lost. I will go back and see if I can replace the missing ones but in the meantime here are a couple of the largely finished layout. EDIT - I have repopulated the thread with all the photos that I could find on my PC's hard drive, the worst of the gaps start half way down page one to about half way down page three, most of the rest is now complete.

There was a very useful recent thread on the narrow gauge model railway forum about this topic. Unfortunately it was canned when (presumably) it became too political. From memory and to summarise a long post it appears that a carnet is required to bring a layout from the EU to the UK for an exhibition and that one is required for each trip. The first trip went well but the second (I assume trying to use the first carnet again) didn't go well with the person turned around at the French customs, a fine applied and some note made of a possible passport infringement. Now the person this happened to was at pains to point out that this wasn't the action of some French jobsworth; in fact the official was very apologetic at the action that he had to take. I believe that the layout was being transported in a car, and that all the supporting documentation was in place. Now I should emphasise that this is the experience of an EU national (attempting to) bring a layout into the UK for an exhibition here, but in line with what Fulton states above, I believe that there will be similar requirements to take a layout out of the UK for an exhibition in the EU.

Oh dear, that's as ugly as the 517 is pretty.

Hello everyone, this is Fred. Fred is tired. Last night Fred brought in a mouse. The mouse did not like this and ran away. Fred found the mouse in the shoe cupboard. Fred rearranged our shoes. No wonder Fred is tired.

I'm not sure, my mate is on his way back from France so I'll update when I find out more.

The Ratio GWR four wheelers. First photo down here

Well that's a weird coincidence; I've just been re-reading the Wild Swan book on the Golden Valley Railway and thought that the 517 was probably the most obvious missing GWR loco. As a rule I'm not a fan of the GWR but the open cab 517 does look particulary lovely.

Taxation; at least I hope it does. Though of late tax has been a bit of a dirty word I believe that fair taxation is a good thing. If it's done fairly then those with the greatest wealth/highest income pay more, as they should do, for things which benefit the whole nation. Loading it all onto the consumer (passenger in this case) means that the millionaire pays the same as the person on benefits, which seems wrong. Of course this all depends on the fairness of taxation, here are some interesting figures which suggest that the fairness part has been significantly lacking over the years.

I was thinking more long term, since the privatisation of rail rather than post Covid.

I'm not convinced that increase in passenger numbers is necessarily down to things that the railway does, other factors I suspect are in play. I'm thinking of the huge increase in house prices in cities, particularly London, which must have led to big increases in commuting. Things like how we spend our leisure time, how affordable or desirable private motoring is will also have a bearing on the issue. The privatised railway companies may simply be responding to increased demand rather than creating it.

While this might be OK for many companies where we would have a choice of buying or not buying I don't think it works for public utilities. I'd count rail (and bus for that matter) as public utilities as for many there's no choice but to use them and they are a key piece of national infrastructure. They shouldn't be a vehicle for wealth extraction. The shareholder thing is also a bit troubling to a leftie like me (yes I know that pension funds are investors) as the principle behind investment is that those with spare cash are able to make more money while those unable to invest pay more than they need to so that there is spare money to hand over to investors. The rich get richer etc. which strikes me as a bit unfair. Without losers there can't be winners so why would we want to benefit at someone else's expense?

I assumed you had Phil, but thought it worth mentioning for others who might just have rocked up on the day with a set of barriers.

Here's a fabulous fifteen minute film full of interest and nostalgia from the bowler hatted passenger on the tube to the clippie on the bus. My favourite moment; the Wallace and Gromit scrub-o-matic seat cleaner at 6:05. Enjoy.

There is a potential problem with this. All is OK if the layout is operated from the front as space at the front of the layout will (should be) factored into the planning, however if operating from the rear the effective front of the layout will be a couple of feet forward impinging into the gangway. This may still be OK if it's in one of those spaces where the layout itself can be pushed back or where the gangway widens out but things don't always work out that way. I feel it would be worth indicating the intention to do this to the show organiser in the hope that this can be worked into the floorplan.

Ah the crane bit. At the moment it looks like it may be as Airfix intended, but the jib (boom?) has required quite a bit of filler so it will depend on a decent finish. I would love to be able to replicate the Dutch example above but I fear that the spindly construction would defeat me and be terribly fragile. I do hope to get the cabin to sit lower on the legs but I would like to be able to retain the ability to rotate.

A further thought. As an exhibitor, there may be a few pertinent questions to ask of the organiser before accepting an invite. Do you provide barriers? How busy (how many through the door per day) is the exhibition? What is the character of the exhibition; is it aimed at the general public, is it a specialist event or is it a bit of both? No guarantee that all risk will be averted but at least you'll have a better idea of what to expect.

Almost eighty pages in; has WCRC become a proxy for a debate between those who take a libertarian standpoint and those who prefer collective responsibility?

They will, but in my experience many small shows don't have them and perhaps don't have the space to have them. Last week I put together the floorplan for Corris Railway show, held in The Plas, Machynlleth, this August (plug) and there isn't the space to have a meaningful show if barriers were used. If we wanted to I don't know where would we source them from. Given that the usual attendance is around the 300 mark over two days then I guess that barriers aren't a necessity. The most impressive piece of damage happened a couple of years ago when a 16mm live steam Darjeeling B class reached escape velocity on one of the corners of its layout and went scampering across the floor. Maybe the public should be better protected from the exhibits.

I'm a little troubled at the direction this thread seems to be taking. While it may be galling to have your layout touched, prodded or leaned on, the responses invoking the possibility of injury or aggression seem to be very much over the top. We can do better than this.

It's been some time since I posted anything of a continental nature here. I have two excuses, busy with my UK layout Northern Town and still to work out if I'm going to alter Vischkaai to better fit the playroom or start again. I still haven't made my mind up but I'm not long back from an excellent holiday in Rotterdam where I saw this lovely crane .... .... and thought that there was a passing resemblance to the Airfix/Dapol dockside crane. A bit of internet shopping and a few hours work with the kit and some Ratio GWR signal box windows and I've reached this stage.