Penlan

At least there's one grazing. When I've been searching for suitable live stock for my fields, I've found it difficult to get a range of live stock grazing, there was a vendor some years ago who sold w/m sheep loosely, so I was able to buy a couple of dozen grazing sheep (and cleared his stock at that exhibition). I've fortunately been able to pass on livestock that's seemingly in a hurry to go somewhere, and just retain the static, gazing and grazing stock. Some of the Bovines available seem more suitable for a lively wild west show, than a placid UK landscape.

Still same problem Tuesday morning, frustrating.

John Miles, I did mention the lettering style, Times New Roman, which was visible on the van, I doubt it's faded on the 1:1 scale photo 🃏 This is a van I started some 45+ years ago, based on the photo, note cross bracing in the panels, never got round to finishing it, the other side is bare...... I see I have a paint date of 1/80 on the solebar - date I lettered it. Things like the panel on the bottom RH side panel were evident in the photo. Before anybody asks if I still have the sketches etc., there have been a number of domestic upheavals since that time, much paperwork has been lost. The basic model van body is one of the Ian Kirk's Mink's. The colour on the model is probably a darker chocolate than seen here. .

Because of it's obscurity? I decided to have one on the layout.... Specifically for when Penlan was at York Exhibition in 2009. The NLR wagon is in memory of the late Geoff Williams (Aylesbury). .

John, any knowledge I have is mere memories now as I handed all my work over to our dear friend near Malvern. I spent a lot of time in the 70's and 80's at Kew PRO going through the relevant files and also Birmingham Records Office for the Accident Reports on the N&B. I do however recall some 40+ years ago seeing the edge of a N&B van behind a N&B loco in a photograph, the lettering style was more Times Roman Serif than block letters, which instantly ruled out the N. B. Rly. In the 1920 RCH survey at Bristol of the different Co's wagons there, there was 1 (one) loaded N&B wagon, I know that information is of no import, but thought I would throw it in. I suppose it's possible with the updated RMweb software that's been lost, so: RCH Wagon Count - July 1920 - Bristol.xls

In 1917 the Railway Year book gives the total goods stock as 97 vehicles. I don't think there were that many (<24) Vans either, I think I've only ever seen one photo with a N&B Van in it, but that has had doubt cast on it by somebody better versed in the N&B than I. The main stock seems to have been 2 / 3 plank wagons and single bolster wagons. I'm sure Mr. Miles will be along soon to add something to this. Re. Baltic poles etc., I'm sure I've mentioned it in this topic before, but I use to have a 100ft long hedge which needed regular trimming, especially on the height, and I would leave the arisings on top for a couple of weeks to dry out (Summer time?) and then clean off the stems etc., leaving the bark on, trim to length, no preservatives, and after 40+ years they are still looking good with their bark on - Pit Props in my wagons.

(Subscription) But not in west Cornwall, though in PZ Smiths a weeks ago.

Phew...

The LNWR's tanks, bunker and cab etc., are basically the LNWR 5' 6" 2-4-2T's grafted onto the back end, and retaining the chassis, cylinder block and front bogie of the Met tanks. If I saw an old M&L kit for this loco I would use that one for the back end, but I'm contemplating doing these in plastikard, or brass sheet, though I do have a number of cab bits in the big spares box. The footplate will be 0.4mm double sided PCB board, the LNWR one goes right up to the back of the smokebox. The LNWR driving wheels are different from the K's kit where the crank pins are in-line with a spoke, the LNWR's are pin-between spokes. How much will be retained from the K's kit, good question. Well it will definitely be a new (Gibson) chassis, the front end will be retained more or less, the smokebox and the wrapper from the smokebox and over the Cylinders being an interesting modification project? to the later condition, I think all that will be fixed to the chassis. The boiler and footplate (and above) being removeable, fixing by the boiler being pushed in (1 - 2mm) into the smokebox and the rear part held down by conventional screw etc., Some might say a waste of a good kit, well possibly, however as I'm approaching 80 years old, the layout's more or less complete, I have far to much rolling stock and I like challenges, and I like the idea of the conversion, of which I doubt I will see many of them around on other layouts. And finally (for the present) it's that time worn cliché of 'Rule 1' 😎 I'm most grateful for all your input RMebbers, thank you.

Matt Wicks, many thanks for all those photo's most useful. I bought the 'Digital' book. ....... and now I'm thinking how to assemble the kit in EM. I hadn't thought that Gibson might do the frames, so thank-you. I'm also contemplating building it as the 4-4-2T LNWR Version? I have taken note of all the past correspondence in this topic, so plenty to guide me, though I'm known to do my own thing in the end. In reality - on my layout, Penlan - I can't even justify having one of these on the Swansea end of the Central Wales Line, and I have to many loco's already, but....... this should keep me quite over the winter months. 😎 Many thanks to you all for your help, appreciated.

Yes, saw that earlier this morning, but admit missed the wording '.... book of detail drawings...'. Many thanks, I will go for it.

Ressurecting an old thread - because I've just become the owner of the K's kit, and I'm thinking of constructing it as a LNWR 4-4-2T version! ! ! ! At least I would like to get the chassis profile looking right, if not correct. Search as I may on the internet, I don't seem to be able to track down this drawing online... Can somebody point me in the right direction, please?

Evolution 🐒

Yes it is a side door, Like this one at (near) Perth, (Dundee & Perth Rly) not long after the line was completed. The line is to the east of Perth Princes Street Station. Please respect that I have the original (much larger) photo - Bought some 50 years ago at Hay-on-Wye Castle.

With reference to ongoing discussions re, loading timber........... A photo on Facebook 'The Clearing House' Group, by Mike Macleur, with the following text 'A good example of timber loading (or "deals" ?) in opens. Taken in 1961 by Mike Macleur'. . And 'Stanier 2-6-2T No. 40116 is shunting at Caernarvon station in June 1961, pic taken from the B&B we were staying at, my pic (Mike Macleur)'. Please respect origin etc.,

I expect that was me that asked for the list. I too found Stockport Library very helpful. I wasn't aware there was a small booklet, however, I have what I was looking for, so all's well. Stockport's a bit far from West Cornwall to visit and browse, especially as these days I haven't got a car.

It's first mentioned on page 135 of LNWR Wagons Vol 3. as 'The Walsh-Scott Goods Brake Van Allocation List' (see Bibliography) which just says 'Skipton Library'. The hand written list is very tightly Copyrighted by Skipton Library, I seemed to have to sign my life away and pay for a copy. It's undated. I have transcribed the listing and indeed offered a copy to the (current) Archivist of the LNWR Society, they didn't reply. I've taken the listing to be a list of allocation names that appeared on the sides of Brake Vans*, and the list indicates if the Brake Vans at each place are 10ton, 6 wheel and/or 20 ton. nothing more than that. There's 222 (two hundred & twenty two) allocations listed, a few don't show a brake van at a name, but that may be because it was outside of the photocopied area. Therefore, as much as I would like to share the list, I've signed that I will not make it public etc., with Stockport Library. * e.g. 'For Use in South Wales Only' - J.P.Richards has similar Brake Van lettering at NRM York.

Is there a Brake Van Allocation visible on the side rail? Ingleton is one of those on the Stockport Library Allocation list. Glasson Dock isn't.

.... and this is my 1 HP parcel delivery van...😎 Looks like chocolate lower panels and a black canvas top....

In the book 'Black Gold: The History of How Coal Made Britain', there's plenty of descriptions of the bunkering of South Wales coal for the Royal Navy prior to WW1, to be stored all around the world, and when ships needed loading at ports around the Empire it was 'all hands on deck' (aka shovels). Mainly because whilst the ships were being loaded, 4 - 5 days, they were sitting targets for any enemy action. The stockpiles of bunkered coal around the world for the UK's Navy was something else.

After 1911, Chocolate & white - varnished, chassis drop black - unvarnished. Ref: LNWR Liveries, page 146. 😎

My Sainsbury's* Coffee Stirrers are 5.1mm wide and 1.01mm thick. I did look at a couple of lengths of thin ply sleeper strip I had, but the lamination different colour's would have been obvious. I am very grateful for all the replies, most informative. I have found some suitable chain in one of my boxes, so all change (soon, after a few other jobs). I might redo the lettering to, slightly thinner, less height to it, it's only on one side anyway 😎 I'm inclined to think that the LNWR's 'descriptive' lettering on the sides of wagons became almost extinct around the turn of the 19th Century, as there's very few photo's that show such descriptions on the sides of wagons into the Edwardian period. This is my model of a Bill Bedford's Glass Wagon 4mm kit based on a 1893 view at Forth Goods Depot - Newcastle. Plenty of words here. * Sainsbury's - Because I have a coffee, read the paper etc., whilst the family are shopping there, I collect 'extra' stirrers.

Many thanks one & all, it seems the Coffee stirrers are to thick for 'proper' deal boards. I don't think I have any veneer material to hand. Re. the overhang, in LNWR Wagons Vol.1 it mentions the there's no upstand above the buffer beam, the top is level with the flooring to allow the overhang of timber? It looks like I've a lot of white brake handles to paint over. There's a bit of chain in the pockets, but a finer - perhaps 30+ links per inch - chain would be more suitable, I do have some, somewhere. Another tweak job to be done.

As others seem to go off topic sometimes........ Timber - 'Deal'. There's a LNWR 24' long Dia 14 'Timber Wagon' in a circa 1890's photo (Photo in the LNWR Soc. Journal, Vol 9, No. 8) that has the description along the side rail "TIMBER WAGON FOR DEALS ONLY RETURN TO LIVERPOOL". What exactly are Deals? I checked timber terminology at https://www.greenspec.co.uk/building-design/timber-glossary/ to no avail. I'm assuming (?) I may be able to cut up a load of wooden Coffee Stirrers for a load. Any guidance, much appreciated. This is the wagon I scratch built some 40 years ago, but added the (to heavy) lettering to yesterday - yes it needs toning down too, it's to bright. I suppose somebody will tell me the chains are to heavy too, I can't disagree with that, but that was the only neckless chain suitable at the time 😎 . Point of Order? When did the ends of brake handles start to be painted white?

I want to acquire a copy of LPC9884 - LNWR, 'Engineer South Wales at Builth Road Shed'. Who sells copies these days?