Ceptic

In the Hornby catalogue

This'll do for me.... http://gallery62603..../p31801937.html And a Full Brake... and a Brake Composite....aand a BSK......aaand a CK.... Coming from a out 'n out Southern fan(atic), I found this addmission, suprisingly, easy to put into print. Wha's wrong with me ??

This (illusion) is probably caused by the fact that the VEP mainlight windows were shallower than other mainline Mk.1 EMU stock. I.E. The bottom edge was approx. level with that of the door droplights.

Hi Rob. If a train consisted of Pullman cars only, it was desirable to have a Kitchen car adjacent / coupled to a Parlour car, be the cars 1st. or 3rd. / 2nd. class. So, given this, there would be several Kitchen cars in the train's formation. I'm pretty sure that questions asking of the Pullmam train formations of the other BR regions, and some of the Southern have been answered elsewhere on this forum. A (very short) B/Belle train made up of Hornby's 12-wheelers, released to date, would be much the same as depicted on the train / coach packs' box sleeves. Loco + Parlour Brake Third No.94 + Parlour Third No.96 + Kitchen First 'MALAGA' + Parlour First 'SUNBEAM' + Kitchen Third No.45 + (Parlour Third No.98) + Parlour Brake Third No.95. The only difference being, was that the first class cars were normally in the centre of the train. Other 'regular' 12-wheeled B/Belle cars were Kitchen Firsts 'HIBERNIA' and 'ROSALIND', Kitchen Thirds Nos.17 and 47 and Parlour Third No.294. Regards.

A Hornby 2-BIL.... ?, ... At least someone in higher authority has the same taste / preference as me. Bring it on,.... Please. Cheers Jon,.. Ceptic

Just been looking through Julian Morel's 'Pullman' book*, and the appendix 1 shows that Car No. 96 ( 36 seat, 3rd. class Parlour) was converted from 1st. class car (Parlour with Pantry) 'SILVIA', in 1947, for use on the Bournemouth Belle. 'SILVIA' was again, of the same batch as 'SUNBEAM' and 'MILAN'. * 'PULLMAN' by Julian Morel Publisher - David & Charles, 1983, ISBN 0-7153-8382-5 It always pays to have a book on the subject, (Lord knows where these authors get their info' from) and photos, to refer to. Regards.

Thanks for posting your pics in, Ian J, and showing the different versions, and, as you forecast, a 5th. moulding. As said, Hornby are going for it, regarding accuracy....Well done Hornby .

Given Hornby's time and effort, not to mention the research into the Pullmans cars' complicated history, I would say that Hornby have earnestly strived to produce accurate models of these cars, and haven't cut corners in production, just to save a few coppers. Car No. 98 was/is a 3rd. Class Parlour Car, re-modelled (to quote Antony M. Ford), in 1947, for use on the B/Belle, from 1st. Class Parlour Car 'MILAN'. The re-classification only involved the interior layout, 26 1st. class seats increased to 38 3rd. class, (with the removal of the Pantry ?. We'll have to see whether Hornby have altered their interior ?) The exterior body-work would have remained the same as before. 'SUNBEAM' was of the same batch & design as 'MILAN', and remained a 1st. class Parlour Car until withdrawal. I hope this helps ?. For a fuller history, why not buy the book ? Pullman Profile No.1 THE 12-WHEEL CARS By Antony M. Ford Publisher, Noodle Books / Ian Allan. ISBN 978-1-906419-00-4 Regards.

Thanks for that reassurance Ian and robmcg. I had done a search through Hattons 'New releases' going back to January, prior to my posting, but nothing came up. Looking in the wrong place.....as usual. I'll have to keep ma eyes extra peeled. Cheers.

These folks may still have them.......maybe. http://www.modelfair.com/acatalog/index.html Search - R4381

Hi. Sorry to learn of your missing part, robmcg. I trust you have searched every nook and cranny, inside and outside the box. This does add to the growing list of bits dropping off. I do sympathise, as I've had the same problem. Is it possible to make one yourself, using the other as a pattern ?. From what I can gather from Antony M. Ford's book on the 12-wheelers, 'Monaco' was initially a SE&CR 'Continental Express' boat train car (until 1924). I would make a broad guess that it remained on these workings under the auspices of the SR until the outbreak of hostilities. (this needs further investigation) Requesitioned for NAFFI use during WW2 and after, returning to SR Eastern Section & BR(S) Eastern Division for use on the 'Night Ferry' and Folkestone boat trains. The book doesn't list it as running in the B/Belle formations, nor do my lists. Car No. 98 certainly did. I've got it listed for 1947/52/57/58. Antony Ford's book lists it's years in the B/Belle formation, pretty much continuously, from 1947 to 1960. Now, everyone, the question is this... Have Hornby released this model (R4385) 'Car No. 98' yet ??. Their 2009 catalogue shows a photo with release date of 4th. Quarter. In the 2010 catalogue, it's vanished, without trace ! !. On their website it's listed, but 'Not in stock'. Wa'as happened ??. Have I missed the boat ? . As far as Bulleid's light pacifics hauling the B/Belle, there have been many recorded instances, photographic, or otherwise. The pics I have at hand are :- 34061 '73 SQUADRON' (Orig.) 29/5/1950), Lymington Junc'n, with the headboard as Hornby's AtG train-pack. 34109 'SIR TRAFFORD LEIGH-MALLORY' (Orig.) 31/5/1954, Hinton Admiral, with later, oblong headboard. 34059 'SIR ARCHIBALD SINCLAIR' (Orig.) 26/8/1956, Talbot Heath (B'm'th / Poole boundary) 34061 '73 SQUADRON' (Orig.) 27/3/1960, Holes Bay Junc'n (Poole), via the 'Old road'. 34009 'LYME REGIS' (Orig.) 3/4/1960. Parkstone bank, via the 'Old road'. 34046 'BRAUNTON' (Reb'lt) 22/10/1962. Boscombe. 34009 'LYME REGIS' (Reb'lt) 7/4/1966. Pirbright Junc'n. I'm sure there are many more records of the light pacifics in charge of the Bournemouth Belle. If anyone has their own lists / observations. please post 'em in. Regards to All.

My pleasure Coachmann, and yes, Car No.45 is a new moulding, and is included in the R4381 B/Belle Coach Pack. Cheers. P.S. Edit. You will have to get in quick with these, as they seem to be selling like 'ot cakes.

Hi Ian J. If you compare Car No. 96 (Parlour 3rd.) with 'Sunbeam' (Parlour 1st.), you can see that both have the same body mouldings. Hornby have pulled a Pullman on us , and re-classed a 1st., into a 3rd, which happened quite a lot with the prototypes. Getting confusing already, ain't it ? Regards.

Hello Mr.G. These are the three 12-wheelers included in Hornby's R2819 'B/Belle Train Pack' Third Class Brake Car No.94 Third Class Parlour Car No.96. First Class Kitchen Car 'MALAGA' These are 'straight owt t' box' and the only ones I've got, at the moment. Aren't they brilliant ? Good to hear from yer. Cheers.

Hi All The R4381 B/Belle Coach Pack is now coming on stream. Hornby have it listed in their July new releases (No illustration), Hattons have them, and are posting to customers (No illustration). Only Kernow Model Rail Centre show a pic. of the box. http://www.kernowmod...elle_Coach_Pack The box cover shows that Car No.45, a Third Class Kitchen, is, indeed a fourth new moulding. Well spotted, That Man !!! Cheers.

Some interesting youtube footage posted on another, earlier thread, but worth repeating, all the same. 4-REP + 4-TC, 3 x 4--VEP, 4-CIG + 4-BIG + 4-CIG, etc. at Bournemouth 1986. Regards.

Hello I'm afraid the only help that I can offer is, again, referring to Mk.1 stock, gained through looking at the lists in the Ian Allan / G.M.Kichenside ABCs on 'British Railway Coaches' (Loco hauled). For DMUs & EMUs, the Ian Allan / Platform 5 series of yearly combined volumes would also help. What you really need is the Region's CWNs/Appendicies for the period you're interested in, which will, no doubt, turn out to be quite a quest. 1961/2 Restaurant Second (RSO) --- Sc 1014-17 Griddle Car (GRI) --- Sc 1102 Restaurant / Buffet (RB) --- Sc 1658-62 / 1733-38 Miniature Buffet (RMB) --- Sc 1829-48 Restaurant Unclassed (RU) --- Sc 1940-43 / 1949-58 Sleeper Composite (SLC) --- Sc 2424-26 Open First (FO) --- Sc 3007 / 3101-03 Open Second (SO) --- Sc 3987-97 / 4244-57 Open Brake Second (BSO) --- Sc 9357-62 Corridor First (FK) --- Sc 13055-59 / 13081-84 / 13167-74 / 13249-51 Corridor Composite (CK) --- Sc 15146-80 / 15346-49 / 15418-24 / 15523-32 / 15543-62 / 15685-91 / 16183-97 Corridor Brake Composite (BCK) --- Sc 21017-19 / 21112-18 / 21200-01 Corridor Second (SK) --- Sc 24170-79 / 24280-301 / 24394-96 / 24557-68 / 24651-75 / 24721-45 / 24791-95 .........................................24816-18 / 24919-44 / 25696-703 / 25862-81 Corridor Brake Second (BSK) --- Sc 34188-224 / 34316-25 / 34400-12 / 34431-50 / 34725-28 Composite © --- Sc 41023-42 / 41049-55 Brake Second (BS) --- Sc 43196-225 / 43311-43 Second (S) --- Sc 46169-98 / 46246-59 TPO Sorting Van (POS) --- Sc 80315-17 Regards.

Och Aye, Allus keep yurr eyes peeled Laddie, an' watch oot fur yurr bits droppin' off......

Hi Roger, Purely out of interest, Did you purchase your pack directly from Hornby?, or from a UK retailer? What I'm thinking, is that it's down to the seller to provide both way return P&P costs, in the case of faulty goods. I know Hattons do this, for,and including their overseas, customers. Once upon a time, Hornby used to include a list of their overseas agents with their products. If you look in on Hornby's website / Customer Support / Stockist/Distributor, it shows this NZ address :- Promaster Ltd., PO Box 18-263, Glen Innes, Auckland, New Zealand. Tel. 0064 95270122 It might be worth giving them a call. Regards, Frank.

Ah,.. Yes, Well spotted Doubleslip. I see it now. It's pressed? in to surround the axle box above and each side / open at the bottom. Well done.

There's nothing shown on the service sheet either. [/url] http://static.Hornby...ss-289d-399.PDF

Hi Roger, Very strange ? Taking a wild guess, it could be the box mounting for an individually boxed loco, as these are generally metal. Why it's that shape though ?, beats me. I've had a good look round my AtG (without taking it apart) and can't find anything that remotely resembles it. The separate bagged items supplied with my pack are :- Bag 1. Brake rodding, buffer beam vac/steam piipes, fire irons, 2 parts to make 1 Hornby coupling (all Black plastic), Cylinder ejector pipes (Copper painted plastic). Bag 2. Pair of replacement, flanged, wheels for the loco's rear truck. Bag 3. Pair of etched metal / colour printed head & tail boards. Bag 4. 7 off alternative close couplings. Loose. 1 off Hornby coupling, Operating & Maintenance Instructions. Though NO plastic sleeve or instructions for DCC fitting, this time, unlike previous Hornby locos. Regards, Ceptic. P.S. Sorry to hear about the broken step. It might be worth giving the retailer/supplier, (UK or otherwise), or even Hornby, an e-mail, to see what they've got to say. I've had one or two instances, recently, regarding the inadequate packaging from a certain retailer, here in the UK.

Ah yes.. Thanks for reminding me brushman47544. The BR Std. BGs had started to appear, on the odd occasion, from as early as 1957. Sometimes in Green, sometimes lined Maroon, with one or two instances of one added to a normal Pullman brake ended formation. It was during the latter half of 1964, and into '65 that the Chocolate & Cream BGs appeared. (W 81050 / W 81510). There's a couple of pics, taken in Sept. and Oct. '66, showing the train running with Blue / Grey BGs. Another W.Reg. Cl.47 also noted hauling the 'Belle was D 1686, in May '66. This loco and Nos. D 1921-6 were among those loaned by W.Reg. and shedded at Eastleigh. Cheers. P.S. Edit. Just found a '67 photo of D 1719 in two tone Green with FYE hauling a lined Maroon BG + 'Belle'. A similar formation to the final train on 9/7/67, hauled by D 1924.

Although it was advertised in the 2009 catalogue, It doesn't appear to have been released yet, R 4385 3rd. Cl. Parlour car No. 98 could be an option. This car was a 'Belle' vehicle and was withdrawn in May '61. The 12 wheelers released separately, to date, are not those which would, normally, be included in the 'Belle'. For a bit of variety, loco wise, you could also haul the 50's train using, apart from the Brit', MN, WC/BoB locos, a King Arthur 'N15' Cl., re-named/numbered 30780 'SIR PERSANT', or one of Bachmann's E.Region 'V2' 2-6-2s re-numbered 60893/6 or 60928. Or, if you've got the time and/or cash, a kit/rtr 10201/2 or 10000/1 diesel-electric. If you want to model the train during it's 1967 demise, you could always re-number a grotty green 'Duff' Cl.47 into D1924. Regards.

As a generalisation, the Bournemouth Belle formation pre-war,1936-39 and early post-war 1946+ would be made up of 8 wheeled cars, topped & tailed with 12 wheeled Brakes, usually Nos.40/41 or 94/95 (modelled by Hornby). In late 1947 more 12 wheelers appeared, ROSALIND, HIBERNIA, SUNBEAM, 3rd.Cl. cars 96,97,98,47 & 17, sometimes running with one or two 8 wheeled PHILOMEL, IBIS, LYDIA & ROSEMARY. From then, and until 1961, the majority would have been 12 wheelers with, again, a couple of 8 wheeled cars, at the most. ROSEMARY,SAPPHO,TOPAZ and URSULA (1928 all steel car) + Car No.303 also spring to mind.It was during the very early 60s that the 12 wheelers became life-expired and were gradually replaced by newer models, some of which were from Pullman stock allocated to other regions. Ex NE region cars can be picked out in photographs by the position of their roof board mountings, just above the gutters in this case. The NE.Reg cars included both the 8 wheeled K Class cars (Hornby super-detailed) and the 1928 built all-steel cars (Hornby Railroad). Later on, several more cars from the M.Reg & W.Reg were added to the S.Reg list. So, as Forester says, and as you can see, nuthin's ever simple in Pullman World. Just one train, made up of at least, one of them, has it's own, often complicated, history. Regards.