by D400
original page on Old RMweb
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??? posted on Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:08 pm
Okay first a confession,
Despite being a steam era modeller all my life, I have to say I developed an increasing interest in ??????????¬?…???Modern Image??????????¬?‚?? traction and scene over the last few years ??????????¬???‚¬?“ particularly the sectorisation era from 1987 to 1994 ??????????¬???‚¬?“ although I??????????¬???????m not sure for how much longer we will be able to call it ??????????¬?…???Modern Image!??????????¬?‚??
Fuelled by some fantastic models and workbenches I bought a Hornby 50007 ??????????¬?…???Sir Edward Elgar??????????¬?‚?? about 2 years ago and retro fitted it with black name and numberplates and black TOPs panels as per its 1992 reinstatement. I??????????¬???????ve always liked the vacs and the fact that they worked in one of the most beautiful parts of the UK helps!
But of the 50 50s, Sir Ted was really only the companion to my favourite Hoover of the final years ??????????¬???‚¬?“ class pioneer D400 (50050). Retro-repainted into BR Blue in early 1991, it and 50007 became the celebrity paring which worked most of the farewell railtours of 91/92.
Confession over!
I had hoped that Hornby might make a model of D400, or even any refurbished Class 50 in BR Blue ??????????¬???‚¬?“ but I didn??????????¬???????t seem to be happening. So two weeks ago, I put my 94xx steam project on hold, located a pretty cheap 50035 on Ebay and bit the bullet and start repainting.
First task was to reduce the model to its component parts ??????????¬???‚¬?“ a lot easier than I thought! Next was to strip away the paint. Attempt number one with Modelstrip barely removed the printed detail, so after reading that Phoenix Superstrip was a superb product I put in an order for some ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and my goodness how much easier it was! Simply pouring superstrip over the model caused the roof paint to run off down the sides and a pleasant 20 mins or so scrubbing with a toothbrush removed all traces of paint ??????????¬???‚¬?“ back to the original plastic. Thoroughly recommended!
The only downside of the superstrip method was I damaged the lamp irons in the process and also discovering the mainly trains ones were massively over scale, I produced new ones from styrene strip. The top handrails were also removed as per the prototype, filled the holes in and the model finished off this morning with Hurst Models??????????¬??????? NRN Radio Pods on top of the headcode boxes.
A light coat of Halfords primer followed and I??????????¬???????ve masked up the model ready for applying the yellow ends ??????????¬???‚¬?“ hopefully later on this evening. Also a tip that I??????????¬???????ve discovered after previous repaints ??????????¬???‚¬?“ after applying Halfords primer (which is usually touch dry in 10mins) run over the model with a rag and ??????????¬?…???polish??????????¬?‚?? it. This produces a smoother finish for the following coats ??????????¬???‚¬?“ a bit of water can help too.
Thats all for now - hopefully I will get the yellow on later.
Cheers,
Bruce
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Comment posted by dikitriki on Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:33 pm
D400 wrote:
First task was to reduce the model to its component parts ??????????¬???‚¬?“ a lot easier than I thought! Next was to strip away the paint. Attempt number one with Modelstrip barely removed the printed detail, so after reading that Phoenix Superstrip was a superb product I put in an order for some ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and my goodness how much easier it was! Simply pouring superstrip over the model caused the roof paint to run off down the sides and a pleasant 20 mins or so scrubbing with a toothbrush removed all traces of paint ??????????¬???‚¬?“ back to the original plastic. Thoroughly recommended!
I find myself with part of a model to strip, and have not used this product. Do you - or anyone else - know how effective it is on enamel paints and car paint acrylics? I presume it won't touch cellulose.
Thanks
Richard
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Comment posted by 50033 on Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:52 pm
Looking very nice indeed. Do hurst still do the NRN pods or did you source second hand's? Couldn't find them the last time I looked through website.
Tfn
Mark
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Comment posted by The Fatadder on Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:56 pm
dikitriki wrote:
D400 wrote:
First task was to reduce the model to its component parts ??????????¬???‚¬?“ a lot easier than I thought! Next was to strip away the paint. Attempt number one with Modelstrip barely removed the printed detail, so after reading that Phoenix Superstrip was a superb product I put in an order for some ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and my goodness how much easier it was! Simply pouring superstrip over the model caused the roof paint to run off down the sides and a pleasant 20 mins or so scrubbing with a toothbrush removed all traces of paint ??????????¬???‚¬?“ back to the original plastic. Thoroughly recommended!
I find myself with part of a model to strip, and have not used this product. Do you - or anyone else - know how effective it is on enamel paints and car paint acrylics? I presume it won't touch cellulose.
Thanks
Richard Will certainly get rid of enamels, along with RTR finish. Think it will also get through acrylics.
Another alternative often recommended (and a lot cheeper) is nail varnish remover (the type that doesnt contain Acetone. Got some the other day for about 2 quid at Sainsburys, applied it with a sponge and the paint just wiped off.
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:34 am
I thought you might like a pic of my D400.
As far as I know nowbody makes the "Rail" (magazine) plaques (although the Lima D400 did have them!) or the 84A shedcode decals, please let me know if you find out if anybody does them.
I'm looking forward to seeing your finished job. The primer's looking nice and smooth. I like the cab-shore radio pods you've put on the roof. Who make these?
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Comment posted by NickL2008 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:26 am
Its shaping up to be a good model! My favourite loco will always be the class 50, Looking forward to seeing the results!
NL
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??? posted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:33 am
vac_basher wrote:
I thought you might like a pic of my D400.
As far as I know nowbody makes the "Rail" (magazine) plaques (although the Lima D400 did have them!) or the 84A shedcode decals, please let me know if you find out if anybody does them.
I'm looking forward to seeing your finished job. The primer's looking nice and smooth. I like the cab-shore radio pods you've put on the roof. Who make these?
Wow thats exactly what I'm hoping to achieve! D400 has stalled slightly as I'm having lots of trouble getting the yellow ends to coat nicely... its been striped another two times now and I'm going to try again using white primer this time.
By the way what paints did you use? Seems a pretty good match the Hornby colours.
The Roof pods are Hurst Models. I am considering contacting Precision Decals about the shedcode as it seems there are a number of class 50 items that arn't avaliable at the moment (enough to justify a small sheet maybe).
The Rail plaques - I'm looking for a good photograph of these (any help finding one would be great) as I suspect Guliplates may be able to help with these
Bruce
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Comment posted by SP Steve on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:06 pm
Hi Bruce,
taken the following picture from a slide so not the best but may be of some use to you:
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Comment posted by Captain Cuttle on Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:46 pm
Hi,
Re the RAIL plaques I have some of these they maybe 7mm ones not sure had them for ages, they are about 4mm long. If you contact me I will let you have a pair f.o.c.
Cheers
Al
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:29 pm
and don't forget the builders plate on the lower bodyside
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:36 pm
D400 wrote:
I am considering contacting Precision Decals about the shedcode as it seems there are a number of class 50 items that arn't avaliable at the moment (enough to justify a small sheet maybe).
The Rail plaques - I'm looking for a good photograph of these (any help finding one would be great) as I suspect Guliplates may be able to help with these
Bruce,
If you're going to look into this please do let me know because their are a few vac items i need too (ie: the above; 50004 & 50019 departmental symbols)
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:53 pm
D400 wrote:
D400 has stalled slightly as I'm having lots of trouble getting the yellow ends to coat nicely... its been striped another two times now and I'm going to try again using white primer this time.
By no means am I an expert at repainting, however I had a go doing some class 20s a while back and I had problems with the yellow too. Is it Pheonix paint you're using by any chance? Perhaps their may be some kind of reaction with the primer.
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:43 pm
I see from yuor avatar that you have finished your model of D400.
I think it looks very good. Some more pics would be nice.
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??? posted on Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:44 pm
vac_basher wrote:
I see from yuor avatar that you have finished your model of D400.
I think it looks very good. Some more pics would be nice.
Avatar's can be missleading Its not attaucally "finished" but very close - will try and update the story and finish the model tommorow!
Bruce
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:56 pm
D400 wrote:
vac_basher wrote:
I see from yuor avatar that you have finished your model of D400.
I think it looks very good. Some more pics would be nice.
Avatar's can be missleading Its not attaucally "finished" but very close - will try and update the story and finish the model tommorow!
Bruce Yes indeed they can be very misleading then can't they. Never trust an avatar is what I say.
I'm looking forward to the final results. Those bold D400 numbers look very nice. Mine are very wrong compared to them.
Be sure I'll be checking your thread again tomorrow.
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Comment posted by Pugsley on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:00 am
It is looking very good from the avatar teaser. I look forward to seeing some pictures of the finished article
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:14 am
Just a bit of trivia but I was thinking about those bold D400 numbers in bed last night (because my D400's been varnished, so I don't know if I'll be able to renumber it without effecting the finish ) and I remembered that years ago I was told that the numbers were not standard size because the Devon Diesel Group (owners of 50002) had given them to Geoff Hudson AFM at Plymouth Laira.
I thought maybe as D400 is your machine that may have been of interest to you.
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??? posted on Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:14 pm
vac_basher wrote:
Just a bit of trivia but I was thinking about those bold D400 numbers in bed last night (because my D400's been varnished, so I don't know if I'll be able to renumber it without effecting the finish ) and I remembered that years ago I was told that the numbers were not standard size because the Devon Diesel Group (owners of 50002) had given them to Geoff Hudson AFM at Plymouth Laira.
I thought maybe as D400 is your machine that may have been of interest to you.
Hmm not so sure about that one - the numbers were definitely totally and completely "wrong" and I??????????¬???????ve no idea where Laira/RAIL got them from but they were the front weight, typeface everything!! What I believe did happened however is when D400 was repainted again in 1994, along with 50033 as D433 for the Midland Scotsman tour to Glasgow, the error was set right with either the DDS or the Fifty Fund providing correct type face decals for both locomotives. http://flusky.fotopic.net/p56168145.html - this photo clearly shows the correct style and also of interest is that this time TOPs panels were applied next to the shutters. There are lots of other differences too but I won??????????¬???????t bore you all! Of course what everyone will remember was that D400 and D433 only worked this one tour in this livery! Paint must have been very cheap at the time! D433 became 50033 again, briefly in Rail Blue, and then both locos were repainted into Large Logo for the ??????????¬?…???Cornish Caper??????????¬?‚?? the following month.
As to the model, full credit to John Peck at Precision Labels for designing and producing the bespoke transfers for the locos with the ??????????¬?…???oversized??????????¬?‚?? numbers, double arrows and shedcode stickers. I think you??????????¬???????ll agree they look the business! They are also all one big decal which made applying them really straightforward. There is a small issue with some of the other decals on the sheet I commissioned which hopefully John will be able to sort soon ??????????¬???‚¬?“ but if anyone is interested in a sheet I??????????¬???????m sure John will oblige.
My manager at work is currently on holiday which has left me with very little free time over the past week ??????????¬???‚¬?“ hence getting on with the model rather than posting on here! So here is a quick roll back to where I left off??????????¬?‚?¦
White primmer finally cracked my yellow end coverage problem although, I believe also my first can of Railmatch yellow may have not have had enough propellant ??????????¬???‚¬?“ the second one was much more effective.
Ends finally(!) done I went on mask them off and do the blue ??????????¬???‚¬?“ also masked off the small fibreglass roof panel which I hand painted using Railmatch acrylic diesel roof grey. The blue went on nicely although my masking wasn??????????¬???????t 100% successful ??????????¬???‚¬?“ lots of touching up with Railmatch acrylic required afterwards ??????????¬???‚¬?“ although the yellow didn??????????¬???????t match the yellow spray at all! In the end I used Humbrol rail colour acrylic yellow and applied a thin wash of this to the whole of the yellow end to get it to match. Just quickly, as I??????????¬???????m sure you??????????¬???????ve read it a million times before, but these new Humbrol acrylics are well worth investing in ??????????¬???‚¬?“ in addition to being good matches for RTR shades, they are what I??????????¬???????d describe as ??????????¬?…???high quality paint??????????¬?‚?? ??????????¬???‚¬?“ i.e. contestant colour and good coverage ??????????¬???‚¬?“ if I do finally invest in an air brush I will probably just use these paints (where possible) in future. Lots of hand painting of detail was next, picking out the grills in brass, the footsteps in sliver, and the fire extinguisher ports in red and white.
Transfers next ??????????¬???‚¬?“ now I decided to give Fox transfer??????????¬???????s cant rail stripes a go rather than hand painting them. I??????????¬???????m sure the results are ??????????¬?…???cleaner??????????¬?‚?? and finer than any hand painted attempt, however they were very difficult to apply and I used half the sheet when I should have only need two lines! The results are satisfactory, but not ??????????¬?…???perfect??????????¬?‚?? with one side not being as straight as I??????????¬???????d like ??????????¬???‚¬?“ whether or not I??????????¬???????d use this method again I don??????????¬???????t know to be honest. The ??????????¬?…???orange square??????????¬?‚?? multiple work transfers were off another Fox sheet, while the overhead warning plates and shutter plates are from Precision Labels ??????????¬???‚¬?“ these are much finer than any transfers I??????????¬???????ve seen, however they benefit from a bit of extra adhesion so I??????????¬???????ve applied them with a spot of superglue ??????????¬???‚¬?“ though be careful with this ??????????¬???‚¬?“ you only really get one shot at applying them! Numbers double arrows and shedcodes I??????????¬???????ve already covered are off a bespoke sheet from John. Etched RAIL plates are thanks to Captin Cuttle on here ??????????¬???‚¬?“ dunno where they came from originally but they are very nice and fine ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and readable, unlike the Jackson Evans leasing plate and builders plates which I used ??????????¬???‚¬?“ as far as I know though these are the only generally available ones ??????????¬???‚¬?“ may replace these at a later date??????????¬?‚?¦
The whole thing was then given a coat of Games Workshop ??????????¬?…???Purity Seal??????????¬?‚?? which is a very nice satin varnish and gives a great fine even finish ??????????¬???‚¬?“ recommended. On the chassis the details pipes from Hornby were fitted and the axle boxes picked out in yellow and the wheels white walled ??????????¬???‚¬?“ I know some people hate this particular ??????????¬?…???piming up!??????????¬?‚?? feature, but I happen to like it!
Reassembly proved to be a bit of headache ??????????¬???‚¬?“ I should point out that the doors were blue replacement spares, given a wash of Railmatch acrylic blue in an attempt to better match the body finish. I most parts I??????????¬???????ve refitted without glue because it was extremely hard to get the fit again in the first place!
And now time for break, time for a Kit Kat! Why? Well after eating said Kit Kat (yummy orange flavour!) the foil needs to be flattened out and then glued in top of the cab ??????????¬???‚¬?“ this provides a reflective surface for the light to bounce off for the head code boxes ??????????¬???‚¬?“ Kit Kat foil is thinner than your normal kitchen variety and seems about perfect for the job!
Phew! and there we are ??????????¬???‚¬?“ about caught up ??????????¬???‚¬?“ so what??????????¬???????s missing? I hear you cry ??????????¬???‚¬?“ well Windscreen wipers were completely obliterated during the stripping process so I??????????¬???????ve got some replacement Shawplan ones which need fitting and the bufferbeam footsteps were missing from the donor model so I??????????¬???????ve got some??????????¬?‚?¦ oh damn no I haven??????????¬???????t as they were out of stock ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and still out of stock! So if you??????????¬???????ve got either some Shawplan ones or even spare Hornby (I??????????¬???????ve got a couple but not a full set) I??????????¬???????d love to hear from you!
Oh and finally awaiting some sunshine to photograph the model in as well.
So for my first full repaint it??????????¬???????s not been quite as successfully as I??????????¬???????d hoped but it??????????¬???????s not been a complete failure either!
Bruce
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:30 pm
Bruce I was quite sure about the Devopn Diesel Group giving them the numbers. We're talking almost 20 years here (My goodness!) so of course I may be wrong.
D400 wrote:
D400 and D433 ... and then both locos were repainted into Large Logo for the ??????????¬?…???Cornish Caper??????????¬?‚?? the following month.
I remeber that tour well. I wasn't on the the train but I went to Newton Abbot around midnight. I set up my video camera on the tripod and waited for the double headed large logo vacs to come through. Just as they rolled into the station my battery died!
So a week or so later for the 50 Terminator tour I made sure my battery was charged and headed off to St Davids again. D400/50050 (large logo) and 50007 (green) were beautifully turned out by the lads from Plymouth and it was a nice sunny day so I got some good film and pics that I should still have somewhere. I don't think I'd ever seen as many people at St Davids as I did see on that very sad March day 15 years ago
D400 wrote:
if I do finally invest in an air brush
So you're saying you did this smashing job just with aereosols? Looking at the terxture of the finish I could have sworn you'd used a airbrush.
D400 wrote:
picking out the grills in brass, the footsteps in sliver
That's a job I still have to do on mine too. The door window frames as well.
D400 wrote:
Etched RAIL plates are thanks to Captin Cuttle on here ??????????¬???‚¬?“ dunno where they came from originally but they are very nice and fine ??????????¬???‚¬?“ and readable
Any chance of a close-up pic?
Also if I may I'd like to take the opportunity to say that if anybody has a spare set of RAIL plates please get in touch.
D400 wrote:
the axle boxes picked out in yellow and the wheels white walled ??????????¬???‚¬?“ I know some people hate this particular ??????????¬?…???piming up!??????????¬?‚?? feature, but I happen to like it!
I like it too.
You may hae noticed on mine I have yellow axle boxes with red stripes. The only reason for that is because my D400 used to be 50007 and I thought the yellow and red axle boxes looked good.
D400 wrote:
Windscreen wipers were completely obliterated during the stripping process so I??????????¬???????ve got some replacement Shawplan ones which need fitting
Don't forget to paint them white.
D400 wrote:
Oh and finally awaiting some sunshine to photograph the model in as well.
I'm looking forward to that.
D400 wrote:
So for my first full repaint it??????????¬???????s not been quite as successfully as I??????????¬???????d hoped but it??????????¬???????s not been a complete failure either!
I think you've done a very good job . To be honest I think I prefer yours to mine. Shall we swap? So are you going to weather it?
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??? posted on Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:15 pm
vac_basher wrote:
D400 wrote:
picking out the grills in brass, the footsteps in sliver
That's a job I still have to do on mine too. The door window frames as well.
vac_basher wrote:
You may hae noticed on mine I have yellow axle boxes with red stripes. The only reason for that is because my D400 used to be 50007 and I thought the yellow and red axle boxes looked good.
vac_basher wrote:
Don't forget to paint them white.
Double check when your doing your model - some times it had silver footsteps, sometimes they are blue. Axle boxes again, when first turned out in April? '91 (with no RAIL plates) they had red stripes - these disapeared when she got the plates that September. Same goes for the windscreen wipers - again when turned out they were white - but come may 92 (when I'm doing my model) they were black.
vac_basher wrote:
I think you've done a very good job . To be honest I think I prefer yours to mine. Shall we swap? So are you going to weather it?
Thank you Although you've not seen the following to show up all the problems yet... even so I think it stands up pretty well - I'm pleased with it As for weathering certainly not! What would the Laira boys think if there was a spec of dirt on the pair!
Here are some photos then - hope you like.
Bruce
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Comment posted by Flood on Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:29 pm
Your talk of the Jackson Evans Hire and build plates is very interesting for me.
I actually submitted the original request for these from Jackson Evans way back in about 1991-92. I agree that the writing is not actually readable (it's pretty small in real life) but the word lengths were made pretty much all the right length.
I asked for brass ones to be made because I think that's what the original ones were back in the 1960s (apologies if I was wrong). I removed the black background to just leave them grubby brass. The ones applied to D400 in the 1990s may well have been aluminium instead.
Glad to know that they're still of some use to people.
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Comment posted by Pugsley on Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:19 pm
They'll look nice together at the head of a railtour
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Comment posted by vac_basher on Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:32 pm
Oh I say. Very nice job.
I like that. Nice pics. Well done that really is an amazing first attempt.
All you need now is 50033 to complete the treo (sp?)
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Comment posted by Graham_Muz on Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:46 pm
Hi Bruce
Very nicely done indeed. Looks great to me.
White primmer finally cracked my yellow end coverage problem although, I believe also my first can of Railmatch yellow may have not have had enough propellant ??????????¬???‚¬?“ the second one was much more effective.
Yes general rule is light top coat, lighter the better undercoat.
I too have also experienced low pressure propellent from both Railmatch and Precision Paints in the past. It is also always worth making sure the cans are warm and at least above room temperature before using them. Some people suggest standing the can in warm water before use and shaking. I tend to shake then leave to warm on a radiator for a few a while before shaking again then using.
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Comment posted by NickL2008 on Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:06 pm
Yummy looking Hoovers D400! im very tempted to get another Hornby model now! class 50s have always been my fav loco of all time!
NL
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