Poggy1165

On this point, I am reminded that I once read an article that mentioned a 'demurrage train' that used to run from Manchester to Carlisle on a daily basis. It had to be in Carlisle by a certain time, so it was important. It took me years to figure out what a 'demurrage train' was, but I think you can safely assume that Scottish wagons appeared in the Manchester area. (Though I suppose Maryport and Carlisle and maybe even North Eastern wagons might also have been returned this way.)

I believe I am right in saying that the Immingham engines were green for only a very short time - indeed having one in green would fix your layout period exactly. Confusingly, the very similar 8C pair (B1) were always green. There is no rhyme or reason to GCR loco liveries. At least one 9N (A5) was in lined black in GC days! They were never goods engines by any definition. And the variations in green livery are legion. A study of photos shows the little 2-4-0T Sacre engines in two distinct variations.

I am a not-at-all active member of the Group concerned. One feature that will eventually be part of the display at Guide Bridge will be a 4mm scale model of Glossop. This is a layout that has been 'out there' in the past, but will be renovated.

I'm still waiting for some 7mm wagon wheels I ordered months ago. I have given them up as a bad job and gone to alternative suppliers who want my business.

I suggest a leash of greyhounds.

I have used Gibson's for years and particularly like their blackened state, which saves a job. I have had one tyre come off in service over the years, but I just glued it back on. However, last two orders I have sent for, nothing has arrived and I have had no reply to emails or to an enquiry via the GOG. So maybe I have been blacklisted! Anyway, I have given up and bought Slater's which are my second choice. The main hassle is they have to be chemically blackened as it's many years now since I tolerated bright tyres on wagons. Another source is Haywood Models. These can certainly be had from Invertrain and I may order a batch as an experiment. I use wagon wheels much as some folk use teabags, as I seem to be addicted to wagon kits. (I bought five more at a bargain price only yesterday - I can't help myself!)

The tin-tabs were certainly a very special thing and exemplify why I prefer pre-group. Needless to say, the model is superb. Needless because I don't think Mike could produce anything less if he tried. The MS&LR had some rather similar wooden jobs. By GC days these were used by the signal and telegraph department, but I strongly suspect that long, long ago, before the London Extension was a dream, these were traffic vans. I have seen it suggested (in Tatlow) they were conversions of diag 12 vans, but I am pretty certain they weren't. If anyone wonders what I'm jabbering about, there are two photos on p174 of Tatlow's LNER Wagons volume 1. If it isn't a wooden-bodied first cousin of a tin-tab I don't know what is.

The photo of an iron/steel framed wagon is valuable, because I distinctly remember a debate (on the WRRC forum I think) about whether the wagon represented by the JLTRT/MM1 kit actually existed. I built mine anyway, but had to guess a number. At least I now know there was such an animal.

These L&Y tin-tabs were very characteristic, and that is one thing I like about pre-grouping railways. They all bring something to the party, not just a different livery. I'm sorry I missed you at the MMRE. I must admit, I did not stay long, not because I was unhappy with what was on display, but because my legs and hips just cannot cope with standing for any great length of time these days. A pity because that lovely P4 L&Y layout Ryburn was worth the admission in itself.

A nice O Gauge E4 2-4-0 would be nice. GE blue for me.

I am in a very odd state of mind at the moment. I seem to have semi-lost interest in 7mm scale modelling and my project has hardly been touched in 2022. I have diverted into bus modelling/collecting. And just recently I have bought a Hornby B17 in 00 gauge to convert to 2871 Manchester City. I am now having thoughts that an 00 layout would be fun. This would be crazy!! I think I need to calm down.

In Continental Europe the military function of railways was recognised at an early stage and strategic potential was absolutely key. Consequently, either the state ran the whole shebang from day 1, or it was heavily involved. Here in the UK, sheltered by the water around us and a very powerful Navy, the military aspect of railways was not seen as key and a (broadly) laissez-faire approach was chosen. To have had anything different would have required a wholly different political culture. Even in the 1900s, when thought turned to the strategic use of railways, it was all done on an informal basis right up until the Government took control in WW1. Though by about 1900 the railway companies had figured out that much competition was wasteful, and had started to co-operate more. The SER/LCDR working agreement was an extreme example of this. The GC/GN/GE worked together as far as Parliament would allow, and if the politicians had not stopped it would have had a near-merger in about 1908. In some ways the British are a very atypical bunch, and it has consequences.

They are all excellent but I particularly adore the Richard Evans one, which would (cough) look good behind an MS&LR outside framed 0-6-0. On the question of being conscripted into doing stuff, you may need to go on an assertiveness course. Because overload can lead to issues, and you really do not want to go there. (My personal brand of assertiveness is very simple - I have learned to say 'no' to almost everything.) Life is too short and there are not as many days left as one would like.

One of my earliest railway memories is being taken by my grandfather to watch one of these shunting Gorton Yard. At the price, I don't know if I can resist.

The MS&L change to Great Central was essentially a change of image, rather like the one BR did when they changed all the liveries and started calling themselves British Rail. The change in coach livery was actually one of the more dramatic changes. Initially, the locos were in the same livery (although that changed when John George Robinson rocked up) and the wagons were merely relettered. What is not clear is whether all the old coaches were ever repainted to either French grey and cream or the later brown and cream before the reversion to teak in 1908. Given the very limited facilities at Gorton (Dukinfield Carriage and Wagon was at this point just a dream) I rather doubt it, but I could not give empirical evidence.

From 1908, the Trafford Park Estates company ran passenger trains from Trafford Park to Barton, using ex CLC four wheel coaches. This gives a guide to when the CLC coaches were withdrawn from main line service. The motive power was a contractor's type loco. I have seen a photo but cannot recall where. An accident report from 1909 confirms that the GCR were still running 4 wheel coaches on the main line in the Manchester area. These would have been the similar ex-MS&LR stock, but what livery they were in only God knows. (I gather one reason the GCR abandoned painted coaches - from 1908 - and went back to teak was that paint allegedly did not adhere well to their many MS&L teak - or was it mahogany? - coaches. But was all the old stock repainted anyway?)

The problem with stress and depression (and probably other m.h. issues that I know nowt about,) is that they are insidious and sneak up on you. (This does not happen with a broken leg, for example.) You may be unaware you have them and/or you may be in denial until a crisis hits. As eventually, given the pressures of life in general and working life in particular, it almost certainly will. My wife spotted I was ill (or nor right) months before I realised. She kept telling me to take time off work, but I wouldn't, as I was convinced that there was either nothing wrong with me or it was just a low mood that would pass. I wasn't having time off with that! But if I had gone with her advice I might not have become as ill as I eventually did.

This model makes my Slater's tar wagons - one of which I was reasonably proud of - seem quite mundane. A superb job. (The Slater's kit is one of my favourite builds, although the transfers that went on it were a nightmare. It's one of those kits I'd like to make more examples of, but suitable prototypes are elusive.)

Post deleted. Answer to it in heading!

Another similar example was 'Bridgewater Trustees.' I forget the full SP, but I believe the Trustees were in charge for a good hundred years. Later they became Bridgewater Collieries and later still part of the merged Manchester Colleries. I have seen photos of wagons lettered 'BT' but have to admit I have forgotten whether the full name was also used.

The question might be exactly how, in pre-group days, the Newcastle-Barry trains were made up on 'LNER' days. Were they purely GC or a mix of GC and NER? I don't know, but I suspect someone out there does.

Thank you. I am very interested. Will contact you directly in the week.

Is the C14 available in 7mm by any chance?

People have a nostalgia for the High Street but rarely use it. I am reminded of the people who whined bout the Beeching cuts but never used the train from one year to the next. It was as if they thought their local station should be kept simply because it had always been there, and they caught a train there in 1956. Raising taxes to subsidise a dying business model is like putting a tax on trains to keep the stage coaches running. If you want a High Street (or a local market) give it your patronage. Good luck finding a shop with 7mm scale models though.